HPDI engine problem

[Pii]

Hi I am new to this Rodbolt I need your help with a hpdi engine It would appear that you are a wizard with these.
How can i get the details to you.

ThANK YOU

Pii

 

[rodbolt]

Re: HPDI engine problem

DonS is the wizard.
I still work for a living.
you can start by posting the full model number and a description of the problem.

 

[Pii]

Re: HPDI engine problem

Rodbolt the engine is a2005 Z175GETO
The boat when fully loaded only runs at 4500 and after 15 min starts to die until it gets to 2000 then you can nurse it back up. If you switch it off and back on when it starts to die it will rev up to 4500 for about 5 to 10 secs. The dealer here in ireland changed tanks, high pressure pumps (expensive guess i would think) said no fault codes on the computer and checked coils.
The only thing I have done is check the fuel pressure at the valve and this is 50 psi even when fault occurs.
I would be happy to purchase a manual if I knew the p/n I have not seen one for this model.
I know this is going to cost me but what are good friends for and what type of world would we have without people like ourselves.
Im entirely in your hands and what proceedures I need to follow I tried to PM you but your box was full (Im not surprised )lol

Thank you

Pii

 

[99yam40]

Re: HPDI engine problem

While you wait for Rodbolt to answer you can read all the other threads on HPID's.
Do a forum search or just start by looking at the similar threads listed at the bottom of the page

 

[rodbolt]

Re: HPDI engine problem

you can check the high pressure rail with a digital multi meter,a diagnostic test lamp or the lap top.
do you have the service manual?
on the back of the motor, is there a large black plastic cover or a big square aluminium block with cooling fins?
a picture would help as I am not sure what changes the international market got or when.

 

[Pii]

Re: HPDI engine problem

rodbolt test I sent a reply but did not show i will send again

 

[Pii]

Re: HPDI engine problem

Rodbolt the s/n of the engine is 6G5X1000936K it has a black cover I have the multimeter 12v test light and i should be able to get a lap top if necessary.
I do not have a workshop manual but happy to purchase if you can tell me where.
I have no idea how to send pics on this site replying to these is hard enough but if you tell me how or pm me an email address I would be happy tne thing has me baffled why does turning on and off the ign make a difference.
Additional info the manual pumps were replaced along with the ecectronic and high pressure.
If you are ever over this way the GUINNESS is good and I promise you one.

Thank you

Pii

 

[rodbolt]

Re: HPDI engine problem

as your engine is an international market motor its a bit tough for me.
if your engine has a big solid plastic cover on the rear and not a large aluminium heat sink looking device it means you have a duel driver set up that the US market got for the 2004 engines.
thats why I need a picture.
Email or PM DonS for picture posting instructions.
I never tried it either.
I just fix boats for a living.
once we figgure out what you have we can try to help.
there were some differences between the single injector driver engines and the dual driver ones.

 

[Pii]

Re: HPDI engine problem

Is there any thing I can look for which will determine single or dual driver in the mean time i will contact DonS He can also have a pint of Guinness.

Thank you

Pii

 

[rodbolt]

Re: HPDI engine problem

if the back of the engine is completely shrouded in plastic with a center plastic strip held on with 3 5mmhex cap screws odds are you have the dual driver setup that we did not get until the 04 production run.
if you can see all 6 ign coils and they are mounted on a huge finned heat sink you have a single driver.

 

[Pii]

Re: HPDI engine problem

rodbolt the black plactic cover when removed you see the coils so it must be the dual driver you a refering as there is no heat sink it is a 2005 model so that would also tie in. I will send pics when available Im working on those.
So Im open to guidance with where to start and is there anywhere I can get the necessary workshop manual.

Thank you Pii

 

[Pii]

Re: HPDI engine problem

I have the pics on an email attachment I cannot work out how to post these. I have sent a PM to Don S
I can confirm as previous msg that there is no aluminium heatsink and that it is the dual driver type.
So Im open to guidance with where to start and is there anywhere I can get the necessary workshop manual.

Thank you

Pii

 

[rodbolt]

Re: HPDI engine problem

your going to have to contact a yamaha dealer in your area for an international market yamaha service manual for your engine.
I dont know if its avalible on disc yet.
the basics will stay the same. you will need a fuel rail test guage for monitoring medium pressure and either a multimeter and test harness,a diagnostic test lamp or the laptop and software to monitor high pressure fuel.
the ECU monitors high pressure fuel and will set a code for low high pressure rail.
the ign system on that engine is a 12V TCI, lose battery voltage and you lose ign.
coil primary and secondary voltage need to be monitored as well.
you can also monitor injector driver voltage at each injector,should see about 90V but more important is they are all about equal.
just remember,sometimes when frustration sets in,quit.
start all over.
start always with spark test and compression then play.
if the ECU throws no codes while the engine is acting up it narrows your search pattern cause the ECU says it likes all the sensor and pulser coil and fuel rail feedbacks.

 

[Pii]

Re: HPDI engine problem

Rodbolt thanks for your reply when I cant see the wood from the trees a cup of tea and a chat is the answer.

So just to summarize
This problem only occurs when boat is fully laden after 15 mins.
I have tried to no avail to get a manual (But not given up yet).
The ecu shows no fault codes on the yamaha lap top.
The spark and compression are ok.
Battery voltage is not lost.
The medium fuel rail pressure is 50psi.
When problem occurs all plugs are sparking

How do I check the driver voltages with the multimeter can i make up a harness or what wires do I break into and is 90v the correct figure ( just double checking).
Given that the Yamaha laptop showed no fault codes can it be used to show and or record live data when running on the water when the problem occurs.
Any other ideas you might have Im all ears.
(Over hear when all else fails and frustration sets in we have a saying "Call in Maguire and Patterson who manufacture boxes of matches" (joke)).

Thank you

Pii

 

[Pii]

Re: HPDI engine problem

Rodbolt did you see my last thread on the 13th of march

Thankyou

Pii

 

[rodbolt]

Re: HPDI engine problem

to check driver voltage use paper clips slipped into the injector connector or the test harness and a peak reading meter or a digital meter with a peak reading adapter.
minimum is 60V peak loaded however 85 to 90v peak is typical.
the ECU will record for display about the last 13 minutes of engine run time and can be recorded with the laptop for later display and printouts.
yes live data can be observed,in fact sometimes its the only way.
you may also wish to measure pulser coil output voltage while the issue is occuring.

 

[Pii]

Re: HPDI engine problem

Rodbolt thanks for your reply when I cant see the wood from the trees a cup of tea and a chat is the answer.

So just to summarize
This problem only occurs when boat is fully laden after 15 mins.
I have tried to no avail to get a manual (But not given up yet).
The ecu shows no fault codes on the yamaha lap top.
The spark and compression are ok.
Battery voltage is not lost.
The medium fuel rail pressure is 50psi.
When problem occurs all plugs are sparking

How do I check the driver voltages with the multimeter can i make up a harness or what wires do I break into and is 90v the correct figure ( just double checking).
Given that the Yamaha laptop showed no fault codes can it be used to show and or record live data when running on the water when the problem occurs.
Any other ideas you might have Im all ears.
(Over hear when all else fails and frustration sets in we have a saying "Call in Maguire and Patterson who manufacture boxes of matches" (joke)).

Thank you

Pii

Rodbolt
I have been away and also have to work
I have now completed every check I can including running the engine on a yamaha diagnostic on a lap top.
All the parameters show the engine is running perfect even when the fault occurs.Except both fuel pressures drop right off for no apparent reason.
Run one at 2225 rpm pressures drop to 1.66 bar and 248.45psi
Run two at 3075 rpm pressures drop to 2.27 bar and 329.72
Several other runs show similar drops with no other parameters being affected.
Can you explain the pressure reg and how it works on this engine and what is the likely cause of the complete drop in fuel pressures given the previous information supplied and what I might check next.

Thank you

Pii

 

[rodbolt]

Re: HPDI engine problem

monitor BOTH the medium pressure rail and the high pressure rail at the failure point. if the medium pressure stays at 50 PSI while the high pressure dumps either the medium pressure inline filter is clogged or the non field servicable filters in the high pressure pump is clogged or the high pressure pump regulator is failing.
DO NOT KEEP RUNNING THIS ENGINE WITH THOSE FUEL PRESSURE READINGS.
it is lean and can pop a piston.
run a quick test monitoring BOTH medium and high pressure rails.
when the engine falters pull the throttle back, dont try to keep running.

 

[Pii]

Re: HPDI engine problem

The figures given are the ones recorded consistently at point of failure all the filters have been by passed with spotless fuel and the high pressure pump was replaced with a new one, is the high pressure regulator seperate to the pump if so where is it located or when a new pump is supplied does it come as part of it or would the old one have to be fitted to a new pump ???

Thank you

Pii

 

[rodbolt]

Re: HPDI engine problem

there are 2 fuel pressure regulators,one at the VST to control medium pressure at 50 PSI and the other on the HP pump to maintain about 625 PSI.
by your numbers you HP is WAY low, fix it BEFORE you smoke a piston.
your almost 300 PSI off.
if the medium pressure can hold its 50 PSI while the HP pump cannot hold about 625 PSI you have a clogged inline filter,a clogged HP filter a bad HP regulator or a bad HP pump.
the HP regulator can be replaced in the field, all other HP parts are pretty much non servicible by the techs.
Flagship marine in Punta Gorda FL offers HP pump servicing.