Some Parenting Advise with a Rebellious kid

[HVAC Cruiser]

Sorry this is a long post, I'm a little frustrated right now

Some Parenting Advise with a Rebellious kid OK, I don't know where to turn or what to do. My son Liam is 7yo, next in line would be my daughter who is 23 . I don't know if kids have changed, I'm out of practice or what.
Most of this year we have been having a behavior problem at school with him. No, he is not fighting or anything like that, he is a lovable little kid in the 2nd grade. He does all his homework and gets between 94-105 on every test, the child is very gifted, he does this while barely studying.
BUT.......... he hardly ever hands in his homework, tells the teacher he doesn't have or lost his math work, agenda whatever when in actuality he does have it. an example this week I have been working with him on US symbols, the Constitution, etc.. he knows it inside and out backwards and forward.
I wrote a note to his teacher today and picked him up from school because I know he has a math final on Monday and I wanted to make sure he had the material needed to review for it. Well the teacher smiled, waved, and walked away, I then proceeded to go through his backpack before leaving school. What I found was 2 notes, one from his teacher the next from him signed by his teacher. The note from the teacher said basically William has lost his planner (agenda) has not given in his social studies homework all week, forever is talking with his friends in class with no regard for anyone else and does not participate. The note from William that the teacher signed was him telling his mom and I that his math worksheet was in his bedroom somewhere. My thought Ah B.S. its not in his room
With seeing this I went back into school with him and helped him organize his desk where we found lots of things including everything mentioned above.
I am at the end of my ropes, although he is my son I try to be honest with myself. he is not having difficulties learning for he is an A student ( at least on tests) He has a mind like a sponge.
I know the problems I had in school, I was once told never to raise my hand for he would never call on me because he knew I knew it. I was always 20 steps in front of the class but I was much older than him by the time this was going on. As a result I would sit there doing basically nothing and very bored, believe me it was frustrating. I can't explain how I handled it let alone trying to guide my son on how to deal with it if in fact this is what is happening.

Does anyone have any suggestions or advice on how to handle this,PLEASE

EDIT- with the math worksheet, it was a week long assignment that he had done 3/4 of it on Tuesday and finished the last of it tonight. When ashed I got the Oh Yes, I forgot, and boom in a blink he finished it.

 

[scipper77]

Re: Some Parenting Advise with a Rebellious kid

Kids are all different. Thank god this is all you have to get frustrated about!!

 

[HVAC Cruiser]

Re: Some Parenting Advise with a Rebellious kid

Kids are all different. Thank god this is all you have to get frustrated about!!

Thanks scipper,
Boy I'm getting to old for this . The one thing that upsets me is , OK I know the teacher has lots of other children to deal with BUT the only time she makes any sort of comment or statement is only after I initiate. What got me going today is that he didn't bring home his math packet Wednesday, I wanted to make sure he was prepared for his finals so I was picking him up from school insted of taking the bus to make sure he had everything. I wrote a note sating such, I really should scan or transcribe her response, it was like a OH, OK BTW he doesn't pay attention, plays all day long, doesn't participate in class, But yes he has a 98 average .

Something is wrong, do I need to change my parenting do they need to stimulate him more at school? I had met with the teacher about a month ago, I am a very active parent, I do homework with him every night, quiz him. Heck this morning @ 7:30 I woke him up by asking when was the Liberty bell first rung, why and what happened to it? then went on to what red white and blue represent in the flag (everything related to Fridays final exam) .

I guess what I am really worried about is where this could lead,. This is his foundation, I don't want him to play dumb just to be popular. I am very worried that maybe I am handling it wrong and the results could be catastrophic.

Things are a lot different now, back when I was his age, the nuns or brothers would beat the ever living hell out of us if we looked crooked, let alone spoke out of turn . My parents never had to even raise their voice.

 

[Bob_VT]

Re: Some Parenting Advise with a Rebellious kid

It probably would not hurt to do a few things.......

He needs social skill support both at home and at school..... how to act in class....when to talk etc. He sounds bored and needs extra stimulation with direction. Being part of a team and make sure he understands his teacher is on his team too.

I understand the teacher's have their hands full and some can not juggle the responsibility associated with it. The "worst" behavior from a minimum amount of students probably gets the bulk of her attention. When the teacher has to play disciplinarian that is the time even good students talk and act up.

Sounds as if your son needs some organization skills so no more (or less) paper's and books disappear.

Does your son have school friends that carry over to after school buddies? Academic's aside the social skill stuff is also just as important...... evidenced by his good grades he has half beaten and the other half needs work.

Bill, I did 4 years at a Catholic school and my first wife did 8 (sound's like a prison sentence ) Where is the difference??? Do you have to raise your voice? We had a firm grasp on consequences with Catholic school and we did not talk back to parents and were destined to go to hell if we lied to a Nun

 

[FBPirate95]

Re: Some Parenting Advise with a Rebellious kid

I feel your pain. I have very similar issues with my middle child. Only thing really different is my child tends to be cyclical. He'll be great for a while, then he'll start a downward spiral and punishment just doesn't work. It winds up that you have to basically forgive him and clear the slate. The problem I have with this is the fact life has no "reset" button.

I am sad to say I haven't found an answer yet. Part of the problem is the fact the school system has very weak teachers. Most are young and don't have the background or desire to keep control of the class while also giving attention to each child. Right now we're working with the school to create a path for him that can lead to his fullest potential. This is something you might have to do.

 

[Bob_VT]

Re: Some Parenting Advise with a Rebellious kid

We live in such a litigious society that many teachers are only operating DEEP within the "allowed boundary" and true they are young....... or are we getting old.

 

[4JawChuck]

Re: Some Parenting Advise with a Rebellious kid

My youngest son is a carbon copy, couldn't think of what to do next.

So I started spending more time with him, he became dad's little helper. I let his exposure to my work habits wipe off on him while I talked to him about the importance of doing well at school even though it may be boring.

Next we talked about "friends" and how most of those people he meets at school may not be his friends later in life, trying to impress them was a futile enterprise. Then we talked about "Love" and what that means, he gets three to four times more hugs a week now that I let him know how much I loved him.

I didn't think I neglected him at all but I have three kids and he needed more, so I gave it to him. Maybe even gave him special treatment as a reward, but it worked.

The key for my son was attention, guidance and discipline, he needed more and I wasn't doing my job as a parent. Makes tears in my eyes thinking of how bad it got when I had teachers telling me BS like ADHD etc. Last thing I wanted to do with my boy was drug him up.

He was different than my other two little ones, thats life...I needed to adapt and conquer. He is very special to me as your son is too you, take a different approach...anything different. I don't know if this will work for you but it took the better part of two years to make the change permanent, thank God I wasn't too late. He was about your sons age when the behaviour became a problem, he is very artistic and talented..I just recently got him a guitar and he took to it like a fish to water. I never have to remind him to practice he just loves expressing himself through music.

I think the movie Temple Grandin really opened my eyes to how kids can be different, she was autistic but the story really opened my eyes. Be his "squeeze box" Dad.

 

[puddle jumper]

Re: Some Parenting Advise with a Rebellious kid

Have you thought about organized sports. Some kids need to see that rules and order with team work means a lot. At the age of 7 or 8 there is a lot of sports for him to play. Boy scouts may be another option.

Be happy that school comes easy to him.

 

[JB]

Re: Some Parenting Advise with a Rebellious kid

Been there, done exactly that, HVAC.

He is not being rebellious. He is not being defiant. He is being "his own man" as a student.

What is the purpose of our "Education" system? Activity or results?

He can clearly get the intended result without being a star peg pounded into a square hole.

He is bored with the process oriented system and ignoring it in favor of winning with his results oriented thinking.

He is a special student with special needs. . . a results oriented learning system.

What would our society be like if geniuses who get results with little apparent effort are penalized in favor of those who (have to) try really hard just to avoid failure?

Please don't stifle him with process, allow him to excel.

I had a C average through public school for the very reasons you are putting your son down. When I got into Navy Schools I suddenly had a 3.8 average. Then in colleges I maintained a 4.0 average through Ph.D.

This is not about JB's intelligence, it is about allowing it freedom to excel.

 

[roscoe]

Re: Some Parenting Advise with a Rebellious kid

My sisters 2 boys were similar, but not quite to this degree until a few years older.

A little background:
My sister divorced when the boys were 6 and 10.
Very amicable, mom and dad got along, both nourished the kids, all 4 grandparents nourished the kids, we all helped raise the kids in a very healthy environment.
Kids were encouraged to learn, read, music lessons, theatre, whatever they were interested in, to keep them learning and out of trouble.

The oldest did fine in the Lutheran grade school and high school, went on to Marquette, doing well.

The youngest was much more the daydreamer, thinker, analyzer.
Was lucky that his 5 grade teach took the time to keep after him.
He sent him to 2 of the 3 best private schools in the state for testing.

At the age of 12, he received a full scholarship to the middle school - they wanted him for his brain. From here on out, he was different. Challenged by every teacher in every class for 7 years. He flourished, received a full ride scholarship to Rice, then Carnegie Mellon for his masters. He received $250,000 of free education, and now is $120k, and has gone back to school to learn more.


So, my advice to you, is keep encouraging him to learn, learn anything.
Get him tested for admissions into the better private schools. Not prestigious schools, but better schools. Small class sizes and engaged teachers.
If they want him for his brain, he will feel better, and perform better. And they will also find a way to pay for him if you can't swing the tab.

 

[roscoe]

Re: Some Parenting Advise with a Rebellious kid

Yeah, what JB said.

 

[j_martin]

Re: Some Parenting Advise with a Rebellious kid

HVAC, you have a real problem. You have a brilliant kid that's bored to death with the expectation of floating along with mediocrity and doing all the busy work to get along.

Bring him home and teach him right. You can do in about an hour a day what the PS system takes all day to do, and do it much better. When this kid's ready, probably before he's 10, you'll teach him phase change thermodynamics in about an hour and a half.

And he needs the company of adults to learn socialization, not a bunch of other kids with no direction.

hope it helps
John

 

[sprintst]

Re: Some Parenting Advise with a Rebellious kid

I was that kid as well. I skipped 41 days in grade 12 and ended up with a 80+ average in a matriculation program. Skipped 2 weeks before grade 12 midterm in physics and got a 100%. Everyone else got yelled at for not doing as well and I got used as an example. Graduated with honors in college and in everything since.

It's hard to say as I could have went the other way and gotten into trouble as well. Had the cops come to my house as well for some stuff...not my fault by the way

I liked the tip as turning him into your helper as he'll see that you "over do" when you do something. In his case he may just may not like the teacher. They are forced to teach to different groups and that just bored me to death.

My wife is doing her masters as an administrator here in Canada via the University of Portland. One of the books she had to read was to do with how we are currently taught to strengthen our weaknesses but not to empower our strengths. I've taken courses I have no interest in but were part of the curriculum. Had I found something earlier that I was interested in I'm sure I would have a much larger boat now

The other part might be a tad of organization and discipline. I took Tae Kwon Do from a 7th degree black belt from Korea that taught all the special forces, police forces in Florida, etc. He was a real ball buster but taught discipline and pushed me. He was all about doing your best everytime. If he saw talent he pushed you even harder. We would throw up halfway through a class but continue...no excuses. It's not that he liked kicking your butt but wanted to see how good he could make you. It was sick but I kind of liked the challenge.

Another angle is to hold the "I'll quit smoking thing" over his head. You can up your drinking by a factor of 2 to compensate.

 

[nowback]

Re: Some Parenting Advise with a Rebellious kid

you might want to ask him if he feels bored, if he finds everything to easy.
if he is doing as well as you say, it might be possible to move him up a grade
where it might be more challenging.
this might solve the bored part but losing his friends in the old class
might be a negative reward for doing well that could result in the opposite effect?
my son is showing a little of this attitude in kindergarten already

 

[Bucks45]

Re: Some Parenting Advise with a Rebellious kid

I think Roscoe is all over it. Your son sounds bored. Think about the things that you do, or have done, when you're not challenged. Ask the teacher for more challenging assignments. Even if he doesn't get credit for it in class, he won't know. I would be willing to bet that if he HAS to try hard, he'll become more involved and excited about it.

 

[aspeck]

Re: Some Parenting Advise with a Rebellious kid

Cruiser, your lot sounds familiar. My middle is 24 and youngest 8 and in 2nd grade. All 3 are talented and smart in there own way, but the youngest is exceptional. We started the homeschool route, but our situation changed and time management was a problem for us and we were concerned that growing up as an only child in the house, there were fewer opportunities to learn how to deal with bullies, backstabbers, and friends in general . I am a hands on teacher, so the youngest has been getting "instruction" all her life.

When she entered the public school system we were disappointed in the level of teaching they were giving her ... it was beneath her ability and she went from loving kindergarten to hating 1st grade. I suggested the school test her for the gifted program so in IEP (individual enrichment program) could be developed for her. They drug their feet the first year, but by the end of the year they agreed.

After testing they wanted her to skip 2nd grade ... we did not want that because of the maturity level of our daughter, and we weren't sure she would be ready for that and not sure what all she would miss out on. Basically the school put her in an accelerate math class and an independent reading class. She also had additional projects to do in subjects that interested her (art and history) to keep her challenged.

The end results are that she loved second grade and was much more participatory. She is now starting her 4 grade math and reading on a high 5th grade level. She is anxious to go to school again, and loves it because part of the IEP has her learning the way she loves to learn ... hands on and in groups.

From the sounds of it, your son is not as rebellious as he is bored. He has to have something exciting to make his day special, and if that is driving the teacher nuts because he doesn't bring his homework to school, then so be it. The school and the teacher should recognize this and be working on testing for inclusion in a gifted program. If not, then as the parent it is your responsibility to push it. It will make life easier for everyone.

 

[aspeck]

Re: Some Parenting Advise with a Rebellious kid

BTW, as leverage we knew the school wanted her "brain" to help bring up the scores for the No Child Left Behind initiative, and the school knew we started out with a charter homeschooling and were not afraid to home school again (meaning loss of revenue to the school). Sometimes you have to play the hand you have in order to get action. We are glad we did.

 

[Camo Joe]

Re: Some Parenting Advise with a Rebellious kid

Its the teacher and the parents......... both are the problem. The seven year old doesn't respect either. You must teach him respect by not treating him like he has the control. He needs real life teaching not just school work. Quit pushing him so hard to learn so he can learn. The cart is in front of the horse.........Lighten up!

 

[HVAC Cruiser]

Re: Some Parenting Advise with a Rebellious kid

WOW, I thank everyone for their replies. I went to bed early last night and woke up to a full page of views and opinions .

My wife's answer to all of this is take him to a doctor and medicate him, I disagree. If it was that much of focus issue he wouldn't have the grades. Liam has a brilliant little mind, I don't want to cloud it with drugging him.

I do think he is bored at school I remember I was too. You might be right about lightening up with him maybe I am focusing to much on his behavior and putting him in control as a result. About 2 months ago he started fibbing to avoid getting in trouble and when confronted with it would use "I Forgot" as an excuse. He is the middle child in the house, I have a 4 yo daughter and a 15yo step-daughter. He and the 15yo are like oil and water.

He and I spend a lot of quality and quantity time together, I sit with him every day with his homework, we ride bicycles to and from school almost every day for a little extra guy time. Weekends and sometimes after school we go on our "Guy Missions" just boy time, Church on Sundays, haircuts, home depot, helping others, upstate clearing the fields etc.. We also do boy (wolf) scouts and little league. In boy scouts he is like a little soldier and shows lots of self discipline .

Baseball he gets bored standing there and starts looking around at planes trees,the girls playing soccer in the next field etc. The coach fixed that by having him be catcher so he is always active. Some of his school friends do carry over to scouts, baseball and the neighborhood.

There may be a point with him with the particular teacher, this is his second one for this year. His original teacher went out on sick leave about January. If she had behavior problems she never said. The only report I would get from her was that he was a wonderful,thoughtful, very bright little boy. I can't place blame on the new teacher, as the parent, socially I should have taught him well enough how to adapt.

Her note to me yesterday stated basically that he could care less for what she tells him and consequences mean nothing to him. Me, I call him out on things when they don't add up. An example would be I send a note to the teacher because he hasn't had his math sheet. The teacher sends one home, having him write it and she signed it saying oh its on his bed at home. I am probably wrong with my thought BUT Make him look in his desk, You know there is a problem.

This is the end of the school year, I don't want it to finish up with these problems persisting.

 

[HVAC Cruiser]

Re: Some Parenting Advise with a Rebellious kid

This is the note I wrote to the teacher last night for today to give a little more insight to the situation.

Thank you for responding to my note. Upon reading your reply with regard to his math packet and planner I went back to the classroom to assist him with his desk. While helping him clean his desk and explaining again why organizational skills are important we located his, math packet, planner, chart, and even a library book he thought was lost.
The last time we had seen William?s math packet was on Tuesday when my wife worked with him and had completed up to number 25. With regard to his social studies packet, I assume you are speaking of the US symbols packet. Yesterday was the 1st time we had seen it this packet. My wife and I reviewed the packet and had him complete the work sheet yesterday. I went as far as reviewing and quizzing William on its entire content starting at 7:45 when I woke him. Tonight he has completed the math packet; afterwards we will be quizzing him once again on all material covered within his US symbols study guide although he already knows it backwards and forward.
We are deeply concerned with his reported behavior in class, for this is the foundation for his future. I also am finding it mind boggling that he is not participating in class, for I know that he knows the work from sitting with him every evening. Another concern is that tonight looking in his homework folder it appears that he is not turning in his work again for it is all still there.