Some Parenting Advise with a Rebellious kid

[Bucks45]

Re: Some Parenting Advise with a Rebellious kid

Bill....I didn't mention this earlier, but we had the same issues with our son. I spoke to the principal, who is also a really good friend of mine. He laughed at me (in a friendly way) and said, "Aaron, I see it all the time. These kids get it. You wait and see, one day he'll snap out of it and get his s&*t together". I didn't believe it at the time, but it happened. He slowly started becoming more responsible. He's graduating Sunday! You're boy will get there.

 

[HVAC Cruiser]

Re: Some Parenting Advise with a Rebellious kid

Bill....I didn't mention this earlier, but we had the same issues with our son. I spoke to the principal, who is also a really good friend of mine. He laughed at me (in a friendly way) and said, "Aaron, I see it all the time. These kids get it. You wait and see, one day he'll snap out of it and get his s&*t together". I didn't believe it at the time, but it happened. He slowly started becoming more responsible. He's graduating Sunday! You're boy will get there.

Congratulations on your sons graduation I sure hope your right
The thing is he has been in school for 5 years now. Before kindergarten he was in a private pre-school for 2 years. At home my wife laughs at me because everything I do with the kids is geared towards learning and making learning fun. My 4 year old daughter can count to 100 forward and backwards already. Caity can write her name, the entire alphabet etc next year she is only starting kindergarten but has already mastered everything they will be teaching.
She might be a bigger problem because she actually picked up things a lot faster. In addition she has a very quick mind and wit . An example: the other night I was kidding her and said be "careful or I'll have to beat you" joking around of course. Her response without skipping a heartbeat, "you won't beat me daddy, I'm the best daughter you have" and gave me a kiss OMG she is 4 lol its like and how old are you???
Can we say here comes trouble

EDIT I got the quotes wrong my wife had actually posted it on her face book page here is what was said
@ dinner last night Bill joked with Caitlyn: "I might have to knock you out"...Cait replied: "You wouldn't knock me out! I'm the best kid you ever had!". As you can see, Cait has NO self esteem issues, lol!

 

[scipper77]

Re: Some Parenting Advise with a Rebellious kid

Probably of very liitle help but it seems that at home your son is under constant and relentless supervision and at school he is just another student. I would guess that he is used to the kind of structure that he sees at home and with this new teacher he is not getting that so he is struggling to form his own identity in the class.

he is just a little young to be responsible on his own (to the level of an adult). I like JB and others didn't get my stuff together until college.

 

[ezmobee]

Re: Some Parenting Advise with a Rebellious kid

Bill you've already gotten some wonderful advice in this thread from great parents. Obviously your son is very bright. It was apparent to me long before this thread that you already spend lots of quality time with your son and that is to be admired. You take pride in your work and certainly have lots of skills and values that you are passing on to him.

The problem seems to be 100% with school. I don't have a lot of advice on the subject as I only have a 2.5 year old. At the risk of getting flamed here....I will say that although it's seeming very "trendy" nowadays....ADHD is a very real thing. I have it and had issues in school. I had a very proactive pediatrician who had done a lot of research on the condition. My mother tried a number of things before just putting me on medication but they were not successful. I was eventually put on Ritalin which I remained on till I graduated from high school. I truly believe it saved me academically. It was definitely not a "my kid's bad, medicate him" situation. I had a problem with ATTENTION and the Ritalin helped that tremendously. It did not turn me into a zombie or alter my personality or anything like that. The only issue we had was in the evenings when I'd be coming off of it I would tend to get irritable. However the newer versions are time-release and could be wearing off when he's asleep. I stopped taking it when I went to college. I then also got poor grades and didn't graduate. Coincidence? Probably not.

Like I said ADHD seems to have become trendy these days and some teachers are quick to "diagnose" every bad kid with it. That's a shame because it is a very real thing and properly treating it can really benefit someone that truly has it. Your son sounds a lot like me (although he's probably smarter).

 

[HVAC Cruiser]

Re: Some Parenting Advise with a Rebellious kid

Probably of very liitle help but it seems that at home your son is under constant and relentless supervision and at school he is just another student. I would guess that he is used to the kind of structure that he sees at home and with this new teacher he is not getting that so he is struggling to form his own identity in the class.

he is just a little young to be responsible on his own (to the level of an adult). I like JB and others didn't get my stuff together until college.

Yes I do have a tendency to be an overbearing and relentless parent . I remember how my dad was with us as children ( always working not around much) and I do my best to be the opposite.
I spend as much time as possible with him, always tell him I love him and kiss him goodnight. I am also the parent though that wakes the children up gets them ready for school, serves breakfast etc, I kinda play both roles for the most part which is a double edged sword at times .
He still spends a lot of time just being a kid outside playing with his friends. After reading everyone's views I am wondering if I there is to much focus on his behavior and actually creating more of a problem.
I am in a rut with him right now and don't really know how to get both of us out of it.
I think I will try to take a deep breath and calm down a little. My O.C.D. might be getting the better of this situation.

 

[LadyFish]

Re: Some Parenting Advise with a Rebellious kid

My only advise is to find out the cause, then handle it.

I'm guessing here, but sometime rebellious children who are very smart in school see that the more popular kids are not smart. They get into trouble, they don't do their homework, they are defiant against rules and authority. The smart kid at age 7 wants to be liked by his peers, he wants to be popular. For him, just being himself may not work. Smat kids get bored at school because learning is so easy for them so they change their behavior to match those around them.

Another cause could be bullying. Smart kids are often bullied at school and at a time in their lives when its so important to be liked, they digress in order to 'fit in.' You may have a talk with him about how his peers treat him.

Just a couple of thoughts. Knowing the cause will help you take the right steps toward resolving it.

And, ALWAYS reward and encourage good behavior. I think we forget that as parents. A cycle of continual punishment for bad behavior communicates the message that they ARE bad and that you don't love them. Positive feedback for good behavior will get you positive results and change his current behavior pattern. This dosen't mean not to punish him for bad behavior, just constantly reward him for the good. Before long, he'll realize that he likes the attention good behavior gets him.

Its funny but as parents, we think we are making them into responsible, well diciplined kids by constantly telling them to pick up after themselves, don't do this, don't do that, be careful with that. All these things communicate to kids that age that we don't love them or they're not good enough for us. I know it sounds strange to us but this type of communication is critical at this age. When all they hear is us correcting them for everything they do, we send the wrong message and none of us intend that. When we constantly reward them for good behavior, they feel loved and important.

I hope this helps.

 

[HVAC Cruiser]

Re: Some Parenting Advise with a Rebellious kid

Hi Jeremy,
Thanks for responding and giving some insight to Ritalin.
To be honest I have it too, my biggest problem was my brain moved at 900mph while the class was at 55. Back then in the 60's and 70's they didn't diagnose ADHD it was unheard of. I actually did develop a stuttering problem and wound up in speech class because of it all. My mind worked faster than my mouth and I would loose track of where I was in my thoughts.
I have to finish getting him ready so we can leave at 9 we are peddling today

 

[JustJason]

Re: Some Parenting Advise with a Rebellious kid

My wife's answer to all of this is take him to a doctor and medicate him, I disagree

That's the last thing you want to do!!!

I was the sort of the same way in school.
I'd get an A in Chemistry, and an F in english, an A in history, an F in math. With me it all came down to what interested me. If I was into a subject, I not only got an A, but I usually aced the subject. If I wasn't interested, I didn't care, didn't do any of the homework or reading, and failed miserabley. Not just an F, but my average would be like a 7 for the the course.

I never completed high school. I needed 2 credits in english (the highest level I actually passed was 10th grade, and that was with a ton of cheating and plagurizing just to get a D) And I needed 2 credits in Gym/Phys Ed. I broke the same ankle twice in high school and missed 2 years of gym. They wouldn't give me a waiver and expected me to do phys ed summer school (yes we had that) I told them to pound that idea.

Now on to your boy. Let him do what makes him happy. Education isn't forceing a subject on somebody. Education is finding out what subject somebody is naturally interested in, challenging that person in that subject, and with some guided discovery and not strict dictation, letting that person achieve or fail on his/her own.

Build a birdhouse together. Build a skateboard or bicycle, get a kids chemistry set, figure out what your kid actually likes to do, and concetrate on that. It may take 20 different things to try before you nail it down. I wouldn't worry about what my kid got for grades in 2nd grade. As a kid unable to make your own decision, your grades are hardly a measure of who/what you are.

Please please please just don't drug the kid!!! If you want to grow a vegtable go out back and plant some seeds instead.

 

[FBPirate95]

Re: Some Parenting Advise with a Rebellious kid

After mulling over my day at work yesterday I have a thought about smart kids and their performance. I have about 20 employees working for me from the age of 30 to 65. Yesterday I was COMPLETELY frustrated with them about their performance. Some of them have been doing their job for about 20+ years but act like its their first day. Yet at the same time I have younger guys willing and able to perform, but can't because of line of progression.

I say that only to say this. Maybe the key to a star performer yet bored kid is to teach them a sense of responsibility, justification, and how performance yields bennefits. Most of the good kids and over performers in school tend to be over looked because the disruptive and underperforming kids get the focus. Maybe just maybe your child can snap out of it as he gets over it and sees how things just don't get done if you don't step up. Maybe seeing that if you step out from the average crowd, you'll get much more reward from being leader or getting more pay.

I really don't think your kid has a problem. Which is more foolish....to put more effort into something without reward or to give just enough effort to equal the end reward? Another way to look at it is would you work an 80 hour week for a 40 hour pay? I think not.

I say figure out how to make it worthwhile to your child. We did it a couple of years ago with our oldest daughter. She was putting out just enough to get buy but had much more potential. We made a deal with her. Get straight A's all year and we'll take you to Disney and give her $500 spending cash down there. End result she got straight A's and I spent about $2k over the 4 day trip down there. Seems pretty steep, but she got the point (and I got a decent vacation). This past year she asked if the same thing could happen and we agreed. However this year she has struggled to get A's in math and science. But what has been nice is she's been working her butt off trying to get the A's. Not because its nice to get A's, but because she had something she wanted hanging out there.

 

[scipper77]

Re: Some Parenting Advise with a Rebellious kid

Yes I do have a tendency to be an overbearing and relentless parent . I remember how my dad was with us as children ( always working not around much) and I do my best to be the opposite.
I spend as much time as possible with him, always tell him I love him and kiss him goodnight. I am also the parent though that wakes the children up gets them ready for school, serves breakfast etc, I kinda play both roles for the most part which is a double edged sword at times .
He still spends a lot of time just being a kid outside playing with his friends. After reading everyone's views I am wondering if I there is to much focus on his behavior and actually creating more of a problem.
I am in a rut with him right now and don't really know how to get both of us out of it.
I think I will try to take a deep breath and calm down a little. My O.C.D. might be getting the better of this situation.

I'm sorry if I sounded like I was putting you down in my other comment (relentless sure sounds harsh). I just mean to sat that eventually every child needs to learn to be independent. It seems to me like he is exploring this at school. When the hormones start is when you are in real trouble if there is too tight of a leash.

As LadyFish said just don't dwell on the bad behavior or he will resent you for it. Encourage the positive and don't make him feel like he is a bad kid.

 

[j_martin]

Re: Some Parenting Advise with a Rebellious kid

There may be a point with him with the particular teacher, this is his second one for this year. His original teacher went out on sick leave about January. If she had behavior problems she never said. The only report I would get from her was that he was a wonderful,thoughtful, very bright little boy. I can't place blame on the new teacher, as the parent, socially I should have taught him well enough how to adapt.

Her note to me yesterday stated basically that he could care less for what she tells him and consequences mean nothing to him. Me, I call him out on things when they don't add up. An example would be I send a note to the teacher because he hasn't had his math sheet. The teacher sends one home, having him write it and she signed it saying oh its on his bed at home. I am probably wrong with my thought BUT Make him look in his desk, You know there is a problem.

That was me in 5th Grade. I was in the Catholic school, flunking out, constantly being punished by the teacher, and my parents were told that I was no good and never would be. At that time, being "confirmed" was a big deal, and being denied that was being held over our heads big time.

My parents encouraged me every way they could to "git er done", including staying up almost all night with me helping me with all the busy work I was required to complete. The understanding was that when we got over this problem, things would change, somehow, some way.

Funny thing was, while I was a zombie in 5th grade, I was also a member of the high school amateur radio club and was building my own amateur radio set.

The day after confirmation, my father pulled me out of the parochial school, against great religious pressure from the priests and bishop, and put me into the "damned" public school. I immediately began acing everything.

Sister James Ferita had something against me, and it was shear hell to be me in her class.

 

[JustJason]

Re: Some Parenting Advise with a Rebellious kid

Sister James????

 

[HVAC Cruiser]

Re: Some Parenting Advise with a Rebellious kid

I'm sorry if I sounded like I was putting you down in my other comment (relentless sure sounds harsh). I just mean to sat that eventually every child needs to learn to be independent. It seems to me like he is exploring this at school. When the hormones start is when you are in real trouble if there is too tight of a leash.

As LadyFish said just don't dwell on the bad behavior or he will resent you for it. Encourage the positive and don't make him feel like he is a bad kid.

No, I didn't take offense its actually very true at times I am relentless
. This morning on the bikeride to school he and I were playing the quiz game for his test today . The big thing is though, today I didn't start quizzing him about 4 blocks away from the house he asked me " Hey dad can you ask me questions for the test today Yippee LOL.

Ladyfish had some very good insight, I think he is trying to fit in, my wife disagrees. She is actually very angry with me over this, her answer is Doctor doctor doctor. That time might come but I want to try to find if there is a different the underlying problem. There was a time in the house were his older sister would brow.-beat him to the point that if she looked at him crooked he would start crying. I did put a stop to it but it was tough not being her father. I had to be careful she didn't think I was playing favorites.

He has lots of friends at school and they usually get in trouble together. I do always give positive reinforcements tell him how proud I am of him and what a great job he has done whenever I can.

The teacher says she has tried the reward approach to no avail, he just don't care what she has to say ( her words) There I think it is a respect issue
I too had lots of trouble with some of the nuns I actually got put back from the 8th grade to the 7th because I refused to allow Sister Cecilia to hit me across my hands with a ruler, they would hit you with the ruler on edge and leave welts. I was already graduated to the 8th they used the excuse I was to immature. She wound up chasing me around the room trying to hit me, but I was the one not mature enough for the 8th grade

 

[JustJason]

Re: Some Parenting Advise with a Rebellious kid

Get his IQ tested before you test for ADD and all that other junk.

I did when I was a kid. Regardless of age, if your teacher has an above average 120IQ, but your boy is pushing 150, there's not much the teacher can do for your son, as they percieve everything including the world around them in 2 different ways.
Not that i'm calling you dumb by any means, but if you have a huge disparity between your own IQ and your sons, even your ability to relate will be challenged at times. IQ isn't just about intellegence, it's about perception.

 

[HVAC Cruiser]

Re: Some Parenting Advise with a Rebellious kid

Get his IQ tested before you test for ADD and all that other junk.

I did when I was a kid. Regardless of age, if your teacher has an above average 120IQ, but your boy is pushing 150, there's not much the teacher can do for your son, as they percieve everything including the world around them in 2 different ways.
Not that i'm calling you dumb by any means, but if you have a huge disparity between your own IQ and your sons, even your ability to relate will be challenged at times. IQ isn't just about intellegence, it's about perception.

That I think is part of the problem, Not to get into #'s but everyone in my home is above 134.. My youngest Caity has not been tested yet But I'm thinking hers is up there too if not higher than the rest of us. Only one child knows their score ( she read the report) although most time we wish she didn't

 

[HVAC Cruiser]

Re: Some Parenting Advise with a Rebellious kid

I am actually on pins and needles today in anticipation of finding out how things went today, especially being that I went back into school with him yesterday and spent an hour with him organizing. Mind you I didn't do it for him although I did guide and assist. What worries me is that it shot down the teachers assumptions on his work and books, being reinforced with this mornings note that I sent in, I don't want her to be resentful that Liam is making her look like a lair by him trying to fib to both of us .

 

[kenimpzoom]

Re: Some Parenting Advise with a Rebellious kid

As a parent we all struggle with kid issues.

Sometimes we need to relax. There is way too much school pressure on kids these days.

My 7 yr old daughter reads every book she can get her hands on, reads way above her grade level.

Last progress report she had an 85 in reading. I didnt make a big deal about it, as I know her true performance.

Relax and enjoy the children.

I know how you feel with the wife, my wife needs to relax a little bit too.

Ken

 

[bruceb58]

Re: Some Parenting Advise with a Rebellious kid

My stepson was exactly like your son starting at 6 years old. My wife went the drug way after he was diagnosed with ADD and later on Bi-Polar. His father took over after awhile and took him off all the drugs and that was the best thing that was done. We never thought he was going to make it through middle school let alone high school. He is now in college and doing well. Sometimes with boys it just takes time. Be patient and don't go the drug route. There are so many side effects to the drugs its scary.

I agree with Jason on finding something he is interested in. We tried to get my stepson interested in tons of sports...that wasn't his thing. His calling in life is cooking. After college he will be attending a cullinary school.

 

[FBPirate95]

Re: Some Parenting Advise with a Rebellious kid

I am actually on pins and needles today in anticipation of finding out how things went today, especially being that I went back into school with him yesterday and spent an hour with him organizing. Mind you I didn't do it for him although I did guide and assist. What worries me is that it shot down the teachers assumptions on his work and books, being reinforced with this mornings note that I sent in, I don't want her to be resentful that Liam is making her look like a lair by him trying to fib to both of us .

HVAC you're doing a great job. The fact you are concerned means everything to his future.

 

[HVAC Cruiser]

Re: Some Parenting Advise with a Rebellious kid

Hey Ken,
Hey Bruce,
Yep my wife just a little while ago told me I am avoiding the problem trying to reason things out and avoiding getting him checked and medicated. I think its not that simple or rather that's the easy way out.

The major problem I am having is I am only getting these reports from the teacher when I initiate communication. Yes I knew he was not bringing everything home when he was supposed to and that was the reason I made the extra effort to ensure he had everything he needed. Its kinda like I'm getting Oh yes by the way things haven't changed or have gotten worse. Is this the teacher giving up???? I know there is only 2 weeks of school left but I think I am going to try something . Focus more on the positive, try to explain that although he might know his school work, other children might not, he should be respectful of their need to learn too. In addition I am going to think of some sort of reward for participating in class, then I am going to drop it. I will quietly monitor in the background, I'll still make sure he has what he needs from school pick him up every day if I can, and keep communication lines open with the teacher. I'm thinking that so much about his behavior is actually enabling him