Need a little help troubleshooting, 01 Escape won't start

[jtexas]

My daughter's 2001 Escape v6, about 85,000 miles, had it about a year, don't have prior service history.

Turns over normally, won't start.

Now she tells me, for a few weeks it's been intermittently failing to start, but only when warm and after driving several short trips. Usually resolved by waiting a couple-three hours.

Check engine light has not been on (I believe she would have noticed). Don't have a code reader. If it matters, the odometer test mode shows DTC 4352 but I haven't been able to decode it.

One other symptom: when you release the key, the engine shakes for a few seconds, feels & sounds like its "dieseling" (if you remember when cars used to do that); I don't believe it's dieseling though because it quits when you turn the key to "off". Daughter says, sometimes it did this when it didn't start, sometimes not. Now it happens every time. One or two cylinders firing maybe? Bad timing? If you ever crossed up a couple spark plug wires, it's almost kinda like that.

Internet research turned up some likely suspects for intermittent warm start problems: IAC, MAS, throttle position sensor, o2 sensor, fuel pressure. I had time yesterday to clean the IAC & MAS; didn't help.

I don't know how to narrow it down. Seems like if I have to resort to just throwing parts at it, might as well tow it to the shop.

Maybe somebody can recomend an economical code reader (say, under $50) that's good enough?

Couple questions about these COP spark plugs, I've heard you have to be careful with 'em --
*my plain old inline spark tester -- I assume that'll work? But what gap?
*Can I disable spark for compression testing by ground the leads with jumper wires?

Any other thoughts?

Thanks!

 

[puddle jumper]

Re: Need a little help troubleshooting, 01 Escape won't start

To me it sounds like an ignition problem. Possible cam or crank sensor or even an ignition module. What sounds like what is happening is when it gets hot the component stops sending its signal to the ECU (car computer). When it cools down it starts working again. When it happens check for spark and fuel psi. If you have spark pop you fuel cap and have some one cycle the key on and listen for the fuel pump(humming noise from the tank). If you hear the fuel pump try putting some fuel down the intake. If the engine flashes the injectors are not firing. If you don't have spark it may be an ignition coil pack or one of the other sensors i mentioned above. Hope this helps

 

[jtexas]

Re: Need a little help troubleshooting, 01 Escape won't start

"When it cools down it starts working again..." right, except now it is stone cold and not working, which means I can't replicate the "warm start" problem, on account of the "cold start" problem.....

thanks, though I'm going to do the spark test (it's all I know).

Interestingly, one whole bank of spark plugs is *under the intake manifold* that's right...spark plug access requires manifold removal, which means a set of gaskets, which means I really don't want to go there more than once, if I can help it..........

honestly I've had the best luck with Fords, but this one, seems like it might've been designed in Japan or something...........................

 

[Lion hunter]

Re: Need a little help troubleshooting, 01 Escape won't start

I would lay money against it being plugs, They pretty well last forever now. I had the same symptoms on my nissan truck and it was a Mass Air Flow Sensor. As a side note oiled air filters are known to cause this. Depending on how close the sensor is to the air box they get a film of oil on them and quit working. The sensor should be the wires going into the air intake, pull that out and clean off with contact cleaner. May not be the problem but it is a cheap thing to try. Failing that if you can get the car to a Shucks or Autozone they will run a diagnostic for free.

 

[dolluper]

Re: Need a little help troubleshooting, 01 Escape won't start

Interesting code you got....Most codes are PO xxxx or PO xxx asuming your in the 400 range most 400 range codes come from the EVAP system ,The Cat,or EGR system ...checking for a air leak in these systems or an exhaust leak ...plugged up Cat...what engine do you have??? Check your coil grounds on the front plugs that is where the coil screws on head....make sure they are clean and tight ...common problem....Short trips is sort of a bummer on most systems.....may be a dirty EGR system ....if you get the code reader and post lots of us here can help otherwise it's guess work

 

[rbh]

Re: Need a little help troubleshooting, 01 Escape won't start

To me it sounds like an ignition problem. Possible cam or crank sensor or even an ignition module. What sounds like what is happening is when it gets hot the component stops sending its signal to the ECU (car computer). When it cools down it starts working again. When it happens check for spark and fuel psi. If you have spark pop you fuel cap and have some one cycle the key on and listen for the fuel pump(humming noise from the tank). If you hear the fuel pump try putting some fuel down the intake. If the engine flashes the injectors are not firing. If you don't have spark it may be an ignition coil pack or one of the other sensors i mentioned above. Hope this helps

+1-
especially on the fuel pump.

 

[nuboat2me]

Re: Need a little help troubleshooting, 01 Escape won't start

My 02 F150 used to do the same thing. No code ever present. Finally on the coldest day of the year here. -20F it failed. Fuel pump never came up to pressure. Dropped the tank (1/2 tank of gas) and I pulled the pump. Put it on a 12V power supply and it was indeed bad. I replaced the fuel pump and filter (Nay as well while you under there) and Voila!!!

Problem with intank pumps, the run ALL THE TIME. They get warm but are cooled by the surrounding fuel. If you run the tank consistently low, they lose thier cooling.

AFter she gets back from where ever she goes, while the engine is hot, I'd start by turning the Key to run and have someone listen near the tank to see if the pump comes up to pressure.

Good Luck!!!

 

[jtexas]

Re: Need a little help troubleshooting, 01 Escape won't start

Ford LCD odometers have a "test mode", with about 50 parameters, one of which is "DTC", but it's a different set of codes from the ECU. Haven't been able to find a key for those on the internet -- I suspect it's just instrument cluster diagnostics anyway.

Believe I'll go ahead & get a code reader...I'm not one to pass up an opportunity to get a new tool. Will post results.

Luckily she's out of town all week so it can sit in the driveway while I figure it out.

Thanks for ideas, keep 'em comin'

 

[waterinthefuel]

Re: Need a little help troubleshooting, 01 Escape won't start

Yea get a nissan. My uncle has over 450,000 miles on his and hasn't had any issues with it.

 

[66mstgfsbk]

Re: Need a little help troubleshooting, 01 Escape won't start

if the theft light blinks rapidly when the key is in the on position you have a issue with the passive anti theft system (pats). that is a dealer only fix. if you want to check fuel pump operation have some one cycle the key on and off and put a funnel in the fuel tank filler and listen for the pump to turn. cheap code readers will not help you, they will only read codes. the more expensive ones will tell you the fuel psi and cam and crank pulses. i also ran into a problem on a mustang like this but the coil wires power wires were chaffed through and shorting causing ecu to short and fire for a second then die and start for a day then randomly die. if you unplug the coil paks to compression test you will get a misfire code and coil pack failure code.

 

[642mx]

Re: Need a little help troubleshooting, 01 Escape won't start

I've had the best luck with Fords, but this one, seems like it might've been designed in Japan or something...........................

If it was designed in Japan it would still be running.


It takes 3 components for an engine to run. Spark, Compression, Air/Fuel charge. Now all of these have to happen at the right time to make it run. The first step to finding the solution is to figure out which one your lacking.

Common issues with Fords are the fuel pumps. The return line on Fords fuel rails are not large enough to support idling for lengths of time. The pump "dead-heads" and slowly burns up. Also running them low on gas and filling them up hot is hard on the pump. Pumps run really hot, gas in the ground is really cold... you get the picture.

Another real common issue is the crank sensor. This is hard to diagnose without a real scan tool like a WDS (the public can't buy these).

If it was mine, I would first check for spark (if it has spark then keep reading). I would then buy a manual that had the minimum fuel pressure values and the fuel volume values (pumps do both volume and pressure). And I would buy a fuel pressure gauge (available at Autozone or NAPA) and see what you've got. Both the manual and gauge will cost less than 1 hour of time at the dealer.

If you have fuel pressure (and the correct volume) then I would borrow or purchase a noid light to see if the injectors are firing. Bad crank sensors won't fire injectors.

One other piece of advice.... throw a battery charger on it before you go any further with your testing. Low batteries cause all kinds of problems (typically in GM's more than Fords) but you want to make sure your getting 12 volts to the systems that your checking.

 

[floatingwoody2006]

Re: Need a little help troubleshooting, 01 Escape won't start

Have you checked both the Idle Air Sensor, and or TPS? the IAC can cause this type of thing..( at least in my dodge..)

 

[45Auto]

Re: Need a little help troubleshooting, 01 Escape won't start

Don't waste time and money throwing parts at it. You've got a computer on board that WANTS to tell you what's not working!! Buy or borrow a code scanner and start from there.

If you can't afford an OBD II scanner (it'll easily pay for itself many times over when it saves you one trip to the shop) then you should be able to borrow one from any of the Auto Zones, Advance Auto's, etc. They all loan them out around here, hopefully it's the same in DFW.

 

[windsors03cobra]

Re: Need a little help troubleshooting, 01 Escape won't start

Buy a fuel pressure tester too, many older cars dont have a code for no fuel pressure. It is just as an important tool as a code scanner.

Ford is known for building a fine automobile for 100 years and thats it. My 99 Exploder is at 197k and the pump and everything else is original.

Spark plugs under an intake suck, all manufacturers do sucky things all the time. Thankfully all your plugs and all your coils did not go bad at once, sounds like its fuel starved to me, or the crank sensors gone.

 

[jtexas]

Re: Need a little help troubleshooting, 01 Escape won't start

rain yesterday, no progress.

If it was designed in Japan it would still be running.

Believe it or not, it's actually a Mazda Tribute, which is actually a 626 -- it's a car not a truck although they call it an "SUV"........

...cheap code readers will not help you, they will only read codes. the more expensive ones will tell you the fuel psi and cam and crank pulses.
...

so, knowing the codes will not help at all? what will crank pulses tell me?

...
if you unplug the coil paks to compression test you will get a misfire code and coil pack failure code.

You mean unplug the packs from the plug leads, or pull the leads off the plugs?
Is this just a "heads-up", or a reason to not do a compression test?
I never got an answer to this...can these coils be grounded like you might for your outboard? I don't have an overwhelming need to compression test but long as the plugs are coming out anyway...

To recap:
* recharge battery (done)
* clean IAC (done)
* clean MAS (done)
* get a manual, code scanner (or not?), fuel pressure gauge, noid light,
* check the antitheft light
* inspect spark plug and coil wiring
* spark test
* test injector circuit
* fuel pressure

thanks guys, this is good stuff.

oh yeah, add to my todo list, "get a nissan". (thanks WITF)

 

[windsors03cobra]

Re: Need a little help troubleshooting, 01 Escape won't start

Lookie like a good list.

 

[waterinthefuel]

Re: Need a little help troubleshooting, 01 Escape won't start

You need this.

My parents got one of these. It was on sale for like 26.99 AND I had a 20% off coupon so they got it for less than 20 bucks or something. It works great, you can even reset the computer with it. It doesn't require batteries, it uses the car's battery to work. Just plug it in, turn on your ignition to the "on" setting and press the "retrieve codes" button from the menu. It works like a charm.

http://www.harborfreight.com/can-obdii-code-reader-with-multilingual-menu-98568.html

 

[DJ]

Re: Need a little help troubleshooting, 01 Escape won't start

Reset the fuel pump cut off (inertia) switch. It is typically in the rear compartmenmt or the right kick panel. The owners manual will show you where it is. It is labeled "Fuel Cut Off".

 

[jtexas]

Re: Need a little help troubleshooting, 01 Escape won't start

been raining every day but I'm finally back on it.

thanks, DJ that's the first thing I thought of....


0 codes.
good spark on all six, plugs look normal, apart from worn center electrodes. some of the vacuum hoses look pretty bad.

going to clean the injectors & check the fuel pressure if I can afford a fuel pressure tester.

any other ideas while the intake manifold's off?

thanks.

 

[puddle jumper]

Re: Need a little help troubleshooting, 01 Escape won't start

Look for any wires that may have chafed.

In my opinion a code reader is just fine. Unless you are willing to spend about $5000 on a real scanner all others are just code readers with a variation,s of information that if you don,t know what it means becomes a expensive code reader.