Oil Alarm Woes......1987 150HP v6 BlackMax

[mxzeatr]

Re: Oil Alarm Woes......1987 150HP v6 BlackMax

Have you searched the old posts? Should be some with the specs. Some post about the module. A post about moving the one wire to cylinder 5. Post about switch boxes, sometimes switchbox will cause this, without causing the engine to misfire. The module compares the voltage between the switchbox and the pump sensor.


My guess module.

I have spent HOURS reading on here before posting a topic. Trying different things etc...

I've read most every 'oil alarm/oil issue' topic I can find using the search feature. I've checked most anything I've read, including moving the green wire.

The post above in reply to John, is what I know to answer his questions. I tried to be as descriptive as possible in my first post, as to let one whose trying to help know what I know.

I've considered dropping it off at the dealer (who knows if that would work???) or just deleting the oil injection, which I really do NOT want to do.

 

[j_martin]

Re: Oil Alarm Woes......1987 150HP v6 BlackMax

The alarm I get is BEEPING.

I get a BEEEEEEP BEEP BEEP BEEP when I turn the key. Just like yours.

I can get the battery tested this weekend, however I do charge it before I go out every time.

I can only ASSUME that the ignition switch is fine. (How do you know? It works with no issues)

There seems to be no loss of power. The motor runs smooth at all RPM's alarm or not. I have put the 'GREEN' wire onto cylinder #3 to try that. Should I switch it to #5 as mentioned? Which switch box controls which cylinders?

The only testing I've done with the rotational sensor is to take the magnet out, and fire the motor breifly. Alarm was beeping constantly. Put magnet back in and no beeps. I do know now that I can take the plugs off and rotate the motor with the ignition 'on' two times to get 5v output.

I'm looking for a manual to trouble shoot. But I can't find one that covers an 87 150 for the life of me. I may just end up trying a seloc?

The module compares coil drive from one cylinder (happens to be #2, don't really make any difference) to rotation sensor output on the oil pump. If both are missing (engine not running) it's fine, or if both are there (running) it's fine. If either is missing, it alarms. Additionally it looks for no switch closing on the sensor in the cap of the engine tank. It closes as soon as the oil level starts going down for any reason, giving you 1/2 hour to get to safe harbor.

The only test left to do is the hall effect sensor output from the oil pump (the 5 volt pulses) and check the power connection to the oil alert module for anything loose that might make an intermittent connection that upsets the module. Possible trouble points are: ignition switch, cannon connector pin 2, the terminal strip on the starboard side above the switchboxes, and if you have the water cooled 40 amp regulator, that is tied into the purple wire and could cause trouble. Also check the connection on the ground wire from the lubalert.

All that good, then it's a good bet the module itself is flakey.

hope it helps
John

 

[mxzeatr]

Re: Oil Alarm Woes......1987 150HP v6 BlackMax

Thanks a lot for the explination. I do have a couple questions.

1) How can I test the ignition switch? It seems to work just fine, (Check connections?)

2) Cannon Connector pin 2?

3) How do I know if I have a water cooled 40 amp regulator?

I will be able to look at the motor tonight, so I will start tracing wires and testing stuff today/tomorrow. I will report back! Thank you once again!

Eric

 

[j_martin]

Re: Oil Alarm Woes......1987 150HP v6 BlackMax

Thanks a lot for the explination. I do have a couple questions.

1) How can I test the ignition switch? It seems to work just fine, (Check connections?)

2) Cannon Connector pin 2?

3) How do I know if I have a water cooled 40 amp regulator?

I will be able to look at the motor tonight, so I will start tracing wires and testing stuff today/tomorrow. I will report back! Thank you once again!

Eric

1. Your tach and other instruments will glitch or jump. Wiggle the switch without changing the position from run and make sure the switch is solid and not touchy.

2. Main harness connector tie strapped to the lower forward part of the switchbox mount.

3. 2 yellow wires from the stator go to a terminal strip on the rear of the engine. Large regulator also acts as the exhaust divider plate cover.

BTW, the various oil alert modules for V6 have different connections, sometimes including a fuel seperator float switch connection (EFI) but with a little cutting and splicing they all interchange.

hope it helps.
John

 

[rangerman1]

Re: Oil Alarm Woes......1987 150HP v6 BlackMax

I didn't see any post that informed you that the magnet in the pump drive has a pos and neg and it can only go in one way or it will trigger the allarm. I have a 1989 black max that i just rebuilt myself. I have learned alot about these motors in a short period of time and one thing I did learn is that there is no way in hell I'm going to blow this motor relieing on a crappy oiling system again... 16 OZ of oil per 6 gal of gas is 50:1 and I'm worry free for ever... with just a few quick mods to the system, Block off the tank PSI, Keep the motor res full and make sure the magnet is in properly and take the oil tank out of the boat to make more space... ALL DONE and worry free

 

[mxzeatr]

Re: Oil Alarm Woes......1987 150HP v6 BlackMax

Why would you leave the motor tank full of oil and the magnet is in properly if not using the oil pump??? That post confused me...

If you deleted your oil injection system there would be no need for the tank under the motor cowling, no need for the oil pump, and you would have deleted the alarm system too right?

 

[j_martin]

Re: Oil Alarm Woes......1987 150HP v6 BlackMax

I didn't see any post that informed you that the magnet in the pump drive has a pos and neg and it can only go in one way or it will trigger the allarm. I have a 1989 black max that i just rebuilt myself. I have learned alot about these motors in a short period of time and one thing I did learn is that there is no way in hell I'm going to blow this motor relieing on a crappy oiling system again... 8 OZ of oil per 6 gal of gas is 50:1 and I'm worry free for ever... with just a few quick mods to the system, Block off the tank PSI, Keep the motor res full and make sure the magnet is in properly and take the oil tank out of the boat to make more space... ALL DONE and worry free

#1. We're dealing with a highly intermittent alarm. Magnet reversal on the hall effect sensor sets an immediate persistant alarm.

#2. There is a proper and safe way to remove the oil injection system, and this ain't it.

hope it helps
John

 

[mxzeatr]

Re: Oil Alarm Woes......1987 150HP v6 BlackMax

John and all,

I've been out looking/working on the boat this morning.

Alarm won't turn on right now. But I've found a few things and have a few questions.

1. I'm not keeping the engine oil tank for some odd reason. It did all day last saturday, now its not. Check valve bad? Caps are all tight, don't see any leaks. I have air back into the oil pump lines for some odd reason.

2. When checking the rotational sensor, do I turn the motor over with the starter or just by hand? I don't see any volts on my when spinning the flywheel with a rope and the ignition on.

3. I'm so frustrated with this. I was looking at prices, and it seems that if the oil alarm modual is bad I won't replace it.

Am I better off running pre-mix in the dang thing? What are the steps to convert?

 

[mxzeatr]

Re: Oil Alarm Woes......1987 150HP v6 BlackMax

I found this today.

I'm thinking I'm going to go this route. That way I know its getting oil. If I fry the powerhead, I'm done boating for a very long time.

http://bassinhound.net/boating/inject/index.html

 

[j_martin]

Re: Oil Alarm Woes......1987 150HP v6 BlackMax

John and all,

I've been out looking/working on the boat this morning.

Alarm won't turn on right now. But I've found a few things and have a few questions.

1. I'm not keeping the engine oil tank for some odd reason. It did all day last saturday, now its not. Check valve bad? Caps are all tight, don't see any leaks. I have air back into the oil pump lines for some odd reason.

2. When checking the rotational sensor, do I turn the motor over with the starter or just by hand? I don't see any volts on my when spinning the flywheel with a rope and the ignition on.

3. I'm so frustrated with this. I was looking at prices, and it seems that if the oil alarm modual is bad I won't replace it.

Am I better off running pre-mix in the dang thing? What are the steps to convert?

Ignition switch on, kill switch off, spark plugs disconnected, rotate slowly by hand.

Looks like you decided to go pre-mix. That's OK. I wouldn't put a lot of money in the injection. If I can keep it running for cheap, I do it.

regards
John

 

[mxzeatr]

Re: Oil Alarm Woes......1987 150HP v6 BlackMax

Well John. I appreceate all of your help through this. But looking at that rotational sensor, the cap, and the alarm modual. The cheapest part is 65.00. Granted if its a one time thing, ok fine, but I'm losing trust in my system. I keep getting air bubbles in the lines, etc...

I just think pre-mix and forget it might be for me. Sure it'll cost me a bit more in oil, but like I said...If I burn down the powerhead, I'm done. Just can't swing that kind of repair right now.

I will report back with my final descision after I look thru some things today. Wish we could be out on the water, maybe next weekend.

Thanks again!

-Eric

 

[jmj120]

Re: Oil Alarm Woes......1987 150HP v6 BlackMax

I've got an alarm module and an idle stabilizer I just pulled off a 1992 150. If you want to pay shipping I'll send it to you. I'm assuming (you know what you get when you assume....) that it's good. It was unhooked when I got the engine, I just removed it.
I also have a 2 wire 40 amp stator for the water cooled regulator if you're interested.

 

[jmj120]

Re: Oil Alarm Woes......1987 150HP v6 BlackMax

Forgot to mention I have an extra oil tank, cap and magnet float thingy. Same deal, I'll give them to you....

 

[mxzeatr]

Re: Oil Alarm Woes......1987 150HP v6 BlackMax

Wow....

Thats great. But I have to ask (I know I'm going to sound stupid)....Whats the idle stabilizer? Also, the 2 wire 40 amp stator....I have no idea if I have that system or??? I'm pretty mechanical when it comes to snowmoblies and most cars, but for some reason I'm hesitant with this outboard. Thats why I'm here to learn.

I guess I don't know what to do. I mean the parts that you have sound great, but I'm still not sure I could have trust in the oil injection system as a whole.

What do you guys think???

 

[j_martin]

Re: Oil Alarm Woes......1987 150HP v6 BlackMax

The only way you could be getting air in the oil pump is the combination:

leak in the line between the engine tank and the oil pump, and some restriction putting a back pressure (vacuum) on the engine oil tank. (oil line failure to boat tank)

There might be a seal in the pump that would do it, but I doubt it.

It ain't rocket science. You should be able to figure it out.

hope it helps
John

 

[sschefer]

Re: Oil Alarm Woes......1987 150HP v6 BlackMax

Jeeeze...

Cut your loses, yank the idle stabilzer, the advance module and the alarm module.

Call ProMarine at 1-800-621-7761 and order a complete oil pump block off kit.

Remove the oil pump, driven gear, tanks, pressure check valve and rotational sensor.

Plug the pressure check valve hole in the block with a brass NPT plug.

Install the block off kit.

Connect the tan/blue wire from the temp switch directly into the tan/blue wire from boat harness/engine harness connector. This will give you an audible temp alarm at 190 degree's.

Set your WOT timing to 23 degrees.

Premix your fuel at 50:1 and go boating.

 

[mxzeatr]

Re: Oil Alarm Woes......1987 150HP v6 BlackMax

The only way you could be getting air in the oil pump is the combination:

leak in the line between the engine tank and the oil pump, and some restriction putting a back pressure (vacuum) on the engine oil tank. (oil line failure to boat tank)

There might be a seal in the pump that would do it, but I doubt it.

It ain't rocket science. You should be able to figure it out.

hope it helps
John

Thanks John.

I've had all the lines off numerous times. They are all new with new clamps. System properly bled. It all looked and seemed to work fine while we put about 4-5 hrs on the boat last Saturday (Except the on off alarm every now and then), then Sunday we ran it again, and kind of ignored the alarm. Only put about 1.5hrs on the boat.

Fast forward to yesterday, and I open the cowling to find air in the oil lines (AGAIN), the engine oil tank 1/3 empty, and couldn't get the alarm to go off while running in the driveway.

 

[mxzeatr]

Re: Oil Alarm Woes......1987 150HP v6 BlackMax

Jeeeze...

Cut your loses, yank the idle stabilzer, the advance module and the alarm module.

Call ProMarine at 1-800-621-7761 and order a complete oil pump block off kit.

Remove the oil pump, driven gear, tanks, pressure check valve and rotational sensor.

Plug the pressure check valve hole in the block with a brass NPT plug.

Install the block off kit.

Connect the tan/blue wire from the temp switch directly into the tan/blue wire from boat harness/engine harness connector. This will give you an audible temp alarm at 190 degree's.

Set your WOT timing to 23 degrees.

Premix your fuel at 50:1 and go boating.

The blue tan wire from the temp switch is already going into the boat/engine harness connector. It has nothing to do with the alarm modual. So I don't think I'll have to worry about that. I have tested the sensor and do get an audible alarm in the control when grounding it out.


Oh boy...So by moving the alarm modual I ''NEED'' to re-set the timing? Or thats only if I remove the idle stabilizer and advance modual? (Do I need to remove those????) I don't even know where to look for them honestly. I'm thinking thats over my skill/tool level, but I think I can find someone to do it for me easy enough.

Thanks for your help.

 

[sschefer]

Re: Oil Alarm Woes......1987 150HP v6 BlackMax

The blue tan wire from the temp switch is already going into the boat/engine harness connector. It has nothing to do with the alarm modual. So I don't think I'll have to worry about that. I have tested the sensor and do get an audible alarm in the control when grounding it out.


Oh boy...So by moving the alarm modual I ''NEED'' to re-set the timing? Or thats only if I remove the idle stabilizer and advance modual? (Do I need to remove those????) I don't even know where to look for them honestly. I'm thinking thats over my skill/tool level, but I think I can find someone to do it for me easy enough.

Thanks for your help.

Cool on the tan/blue.. Once the oil stuff is gone there's nothing for the alarm module to do. It can go...
There may be another box (advance module) above #2 cylinder that looks just like your alarm module and there may be another small 2x2 box that works with it for idle stabilzation. On some motors it was all taken care of by the advance module. Since the alarm module won't be getting any input it whatever output it gives to the advance module will be wrong. The idle stabilizer gets its input from the stator and acts like a tach in that it monitors idle rpms. If they get low gets low it sends a signal to the advance module to advance timing. Some are independent of the advance module and are connected directly to the switchbox bias (white/black wire). If that's the type you have you might want to leave it on, they seem to work pretty well.

Personally, I'd get rid of all the black boxes and tune it myself. The WOT timing should be the only thing you need to change and I recommend not exceeding 23 degrees on a fishing motor.

The Franken Merc is a little different motor. It has a modified bore and stroke with modified port timing. In the thread I said 24 degrees because I didn't want anyone with a stock motor going beyond that. Doing the calcs on Frank I should be able to go to 27 degrees with out a problem. But don't you do that.

Its easy, I'm sure you can do it with a little studying.. Go ahead, you're not going to blow it up.

Get a camera, open up a photobucket account and take a lot of pictures of what you're doing. Post them on here and we'll tell you if you're doing it right or not.

 

[mxzeatr]

Re: Oil Alarm Woes......1987 150HP v6 BlackMax

Cool on the tan/blue.. Once the oil stuff is gone there's nothing for the alarm module to do. It can go...
There may be another box (advance module) above #2 cylinder that looks just like your alarm module and there may be another small 2x2 box that works with it for idle stabilzation. On some motors it was all taken care of by the advance module. Since the alarm module won't be getting any input it whatever output it gives to the advance module will be wrong. The idle stabilizer gets its input from the stator and acts like a tach in that it monitors idle rpms. If they get low gets low it sends a signal to the advance module to advance timing. Some are independent of the advance module and are connected directly to the switchbox bias (white/black wire). If that's the type you have you might want to leave it on, they seem to work pretty well.

Personally, I'd get rid of all the black boxes and tune it myself. The WOT timing should be the only thing you need to change and I recommend not exceeding 23 degrees on a fishing motor.

The Franken Merc is a little different motor. It has a modified bore and stroke with modified port timing. In the thread I said 24 degrees because I didn't want anyone with a stock motor going beyond that. Doing the calcs on Frank I should be able to go to 27 degrees with out a problem. But don't you do that.

Its easy, I'm sure you can do it with a little studying.. Go ahead, you're not going to blow it up.

Get a camera, open up a photobucket account and take a lot of pictures of what you're doing. Post them on here and we'll tell you if you're doing it right or not.

Ok. Rain is holding off so I went out to have a look.

The tan/blue wire is on the left bank just under #2 and is connected to the temp gauge directly.

There is a black wire comming out of the right bank just under # wire, this is the 'alarm temp sensor' right? This is wired in with 2 tan wires, 1 from the alarm modual, and then one going out of this block and into the main harness.

Here is my alarm modual. Purple/Green/Tan/then the wires to the cap and rotational sensor.

Yep...I ignored the advance modual, guess I had saw it before but didn't take into account as to what it actually did. I'm glad I looked now. I found a wire (RED) with NO coating on it. Here is a pic of the modual itself and what looks to be a voltage regulator next to it? Or is that the idle stabilizer that you speak of? Finally a pic of the bad wire. YIKES! There IS a black/white wire comming out of the alarm modual. It connects to the switch box, and looks like its looped to the back switchbox as well?

So to remove the oil injection system. I just order the blocker piece and o-ring, do I remove the entire pump shaft and 'holder' that has the magnet in it too? I then run a fuel line from the inlet in the cowling right to the fuel pump. Remove the alarm modual, use a connector (or can I use the block that its connected to now?) to connect the black wire from the temp sensor to the tan wire?

I'm thinking I can re-wrap the red wire on the advance modual and be ok with that? I don't see how the alarm modual is connected to the advance modual, so I should be able to leave it alone???