Household Electrical Wiring Question . . .

[alldodge]

You had to know I could not let this go, being my Dad (union electrician Local 369 IBEW) is the one which taught me. Not to say I have not misunderstood something (as a non-licensed electrician). Sure this was years ago but just the same. Here is the books I have which I also used to rewire houses and received inspection approved. NEC 1990 and the 2005 Thompson Illustrated guide.





Wording in Para B -

A white conductor in a cable can be used as an ungrounded conductor when supplying power to a switch, but not as a return conductor from the switch to the switched outlet. The conductor shall be permanently re-identified to indicate its use by painting or other effective means, at its terminations, and at each location where the conductor is visible and accessible ** 200.7(C)(2)**. The re-identified conductor shall be any color except white, gray or green

Type in red above - This section corresponds to Section 210-5(a) and applies in general to all grounded conductors including feeder conductors. See Fig 210-4

Article 200 contains the grounding circuit identification requirements. The grounded circuit conductor is referred to thought out the code as the grounded conductor.

200-7 Use of White or Natural Gary Color. A continuous white or natural gray covering on a conductor or a termination marking of white or natural gray shall be used only for the grounded conductor.

Exception No 1: An insulated conductor with a white or natural gray finish shall be permitted as an ungrounded conductor where permanently re-identified to indicate its use, by painting or other effective means at its termination, and at each location where the conductor is visible and accessible.
Exception No 2: A cable containing an insulated conductor with a white or natural gray outer finish shall be permitted for single-pole, 3-way, or 4-way switch loops where the white or natural gray conductor is used for the supply to the switch. but not as the return conductor from the switch to the switch outlet. In these applications, re-identification of the white or natural gray conductor shall not be required

The re-identification was done by making the white wire a lot longer then the others in the box

 

[tpenfield]

AD, thanks for posting the pics from the electrician handbook. I'll have to read through the articles a bit and investigate further next time I am at the house by looking at the lighting fixture itself. Also, there is another switch that I found a similar mis-match of wire colors. Not saying what is right, but interested to know more about it.

My Dad (may he RIP) designed this house and had it built in 1992. There seems to be lots of circuits and lots of switches, some of which I have no idea where they go. So, it has been a bit of a mystery as I have needed to upgrade things.

BTW - I like that Valentine table cloth in the background

 

[alldodge]

My Dad is no longer here either. Valentines day for us is also our anniversary, makes it easy for this guy the remember

In the 50 and 60's you use to be able to run 12-3 and use one common and two hots in the same box. Was re-wiring Mom's hose when I got zapped thinking I had turned the power off. You shouldn't run into that issue (I hope).

 

[bigdee]

tpenfield, if you have voltage tester we can settle this. Turn switch off and check for voltage from bare ground to each terminal on switch and post back whether it was on the white or black wires.

 

[MTboatguy]

This could be settled once in for all, if you just call the organization that regulates electrical codes in your county and state, it really does not matter what anybody else says or what their status in life is, it is up to the agency that regulates this stuff in your county and what the electrical code was at the time the house was built.

 

[bigdee]

It is not that complicated. Find the hot side of switch and we will go from there. Come on experts chime in!

 

[MTboatguy]

It is not that complicated. Find the hot side of switch and we will go from there. Come on experts chime in!

Well, there have been a few that have the knowledge posting on this thread and ..........

 

[hungupthespikes]

No Title

I don't see a 3-way switch here guys, so it's a no-no for white wire on switch.
Who knows??? local codes can be very weird.
Knob and Tube required in open areas (attic) still required in1980's for home runs. :faint2:
huts

 

[bigdee]

I don't see a 3-way switch here guys, so it's a no-no for white wire on switch.

White wire on switch is ok for switch legs only. Switch legs MUST have the black and white wires connected to each pole on switch and be in the SAME romex cable. This is not the case here. It is a feed through and both wires have to be black in this particular case. The person that wired this did not know what they were doing!

 

[alldodge]

Either need more opcorn: or we need a :grouphug: but if we do to much more opcorn: we could uke:

 

[bigdee]

Either need more opcorn: or we need a :grouphug: but if we do to much more opcorn: we could uke:

I agree. 50 replies and nothing solved. Mods need to kill it.

 

[tpenfield]

Yup, I think I got the info I was looking to get.

Thanks everyone. :thumb:

 

[achris]

Just ensure you are switching the live/hot wire, and that it goes to the centre pin of the lamp socket, NOT the metal screw in body....

 

[MTboatguy]

Just ensure you are switching the live/hot wire, and that it goes to the centre pin of the lamp socket, NOT the metal screw in body....

:lol: