need some advice before looking at a motor to buy early 70s 50hp Evinrude

[CantFishEnough]

Hi all, (Mods - I think this is the right place to post, but feel free to move it not.)
I have an opportunity to pick up a 1973 Bass Cat (unknown condition) with an early 70s (probably 73 like boat) 50hp Evinrude for less than $500. I haven't actually put my eyes on it because it's an hour away and life has been busy... so I thought I'd consult the experts to know what to look for.

Motor does not have a title (in TX that started around early 90s) and I believe that it is currently owned by the original owner - but has been sitting for a LONG time. Boat was last registered to be on public water in mid 90s.

Anyway - I'm hoping to keep the motor and put it on my Aluminum 16.5 ft boat.
I have a few critical concerns
**One is would a motor that's been sitting like this be totally rusted out inside- like the crank and such?
(If Yes, then that pretty much gives me the answer I need on how to proceed)

**Two is trying to get the starter to turn the motor if there isn't a key - see compression test below)

My main question:
*** Is there anything special I need to look at for this motor? (I'm fairly mechanical and have an A&P for aircraft but am newer to boats and the other Evinrudes I've worked on are all 1992 or newer) And would it be worth it to even worry about trying to fix this up? (worth it to me would be to upgrade from a 25hp that can barely break 20mph with the right prop at the load I generally carry) I'd like a little more power but also really value my '94 E25's reliability.



My plan is to see if I can get it to turn over - he assured me it's not locked up but that's about all I know at this point.

1- After a good once over to make sure the rats or something didn't totally eat everything inside under the cowling... that there are no obvious cracks or issues with the externals

2- I'd try to drain the carbs (I believe there are 2) and see if the plates seem sticky or not - I'm assuming they will both need to be rebuilt. along with water pump and possibly fuel pump)

3- check to see if there is grinding in the gears to the prop and that if make sure the prop actually turns in forward and reverse but not in neutral.

4-I'd try to run a compression test if I can get the starter to turn - * If there is no key on the remote throttle to be had is there a way to jump across it to see if we can get the starter to run it up.

5- I'd try to test the plug wires with gap testers to see that we had the coils and ignition wires working (possibly clean off plugs and see if they spark)

6- Does Can this motor use the modern Evinrude Johnson Fuel lines (I read about there being a special 2 line pressure tank - don't know when it went out of date).

7- Put plugs back in and Squirt a little 2 cycle starter fluid in and see if we can get a couple second run or at least a few puffs of smoke.

8- at some point before check the lower unit for oil and oil color

9- Anything else I need to look for? Particularly with the remote and cables set up?


I'll post a separate question in the hull overhaul and repair section - but if you have ideas about what to look for in the old fiberglass hull that would be helpful also (I'd like to sell it and the trailer off and recoup some of the cash it will take to fix the motor). Worst case - will sell trailer and scrap hull. I don't have high hopes for it but thought it might be a nostalgic fixer up project to someone.

Thanks for any help you can give me.

 

[Can'tFishEnough]

(sorry accidentally used an old account name that I thought I had deleted to start this thread)

But anyone have any ideas on 1970-1974 era Johnson/Evinrude motors? Are they worth trying to fix? are they just too old they're more likely a liability on the water even if they are running? Please help.
I found these threads after posting:

* http://forums.iboats.com/forum/gene...eeding-help-buying-a-boat-a-buyer-s-checklist

* http://forums.iboats.com/forum/engi...aq/193657-general-engine-checks-by-joe-reeves

Lots of good info - but still requesting something specific to this motor set up if anyone knows.

One thing in particular that i need help with, is the ignition key situation - is this something that is easily worked around if no key is currently available?
Another, is worrying about the older ignition system - how will I be able to tell if it's a solid state (I'm guessing not likely) or the older magneto style? Does this make it a lot harder to work on?

thanks.

 

[F_R]

Sounds like you have a plan. There should be a number stamped beside the keyhole on the ignition switch. Armed with that number, an Evinrude dealer can order you a key. Otherwise, you will be replacing the switch.

The 50 came out in 1971, and had mag CD ignition (similar to all later models). '71 was Hydro-Electric shift. Later on changed to Hydro-mechanical Powershift.

If you have an A&P, you certainly know how to jump a starter to turn it over. (If not, then I may reconsider ever flying again. Just kidding, my neighbor has an A&P and can't change a light bulb).

50's are good motors, like anything else condition is everything

 

[Can'tFishEnough]

The 50 came out in 1971, and had mag CD ignition (similar to all later models). '71 was Hydro-Electric shift. Later on changed to Hydro-mechanical Powershift.

If you have an A&P, you certainly know how to jump a starter to turn it over. (If not, then I may reconsider ever flying again. Just kidding, my neighbor has an A&P and can't change a light bulb).

(so far the motor (and boat/trailer) is still available, but I haven't had time or good enough weather to go look at it...)
So Hydro-Electric shift sounds like something that is going to have bad seals and probably be in need of overhaul as well... I'll have to look in to that system a little more. The boat is a '73 I believe, so I'm thinking the motor may be also. It looks like it has some aftermarket trim set up on it as well (another thing that probably doesn't work after sitting for years in the pasture)...

I do know how to jump a starter to test it (or to jump across the solenoid to get the starter to turn the motor ) - however, I am not sure how easy it would be to use that to test the ignition to see if I can get a spark across a plug or the gap tester (the thing that plugs into the plug boot and clips to ground) if there is an engine cut off (or what I tell my kids is the driver overboard switch). Most of my outboard experience is with smaller motors with tiller handles.

 

[Can'tFishEnough]

No Title

some pics I got emailed

 

[Can'tFishEnough]

No Title

few more:

Any help with how this thing is steered would be useful to me as well - I'm guessing there is supposed to be a handle on the plate to the left of the front seat... but not sure if it is a twist system or a lever or something to be avoided... If I can't steer it It doesn't do me much good at this point (would be replacing a tiller handle so no hardware at this point on my boat for remote operation.

Any thoughts would be helpful -- he's asking a fairly low price for the whole rig (paperwork seems to check out so it doesn't seem to be a "I bought a boat cheap and got burned caues now I cant register it so I'd like to pass my mis-fortune on to you" type deal ---- but it's still money to me and I don't want to go into something I can't at least break even if I just flip it for parts or something... (though I don't know what the demand for parts would be for a 40 year old outboard...)
I'm not sure if the hull is worth anything or scrap. trailer also needs more work than I really want to put into it judging by the pics.

 

[racerone]

The steering appears to be attached to the motor.-----Not on the normal side but it is there.-----T and tilt is worth some money too but one cylinder appears to have an issue.

 

[sutor623]

Honestly, since that thing has been setting outside and soaking up the elements, I think you are going to run into some major issues with it. Even if the internals are in good shape, look at your controls, power trim, all your fuel lines and electrical lines in the engine.

I have the I can fix everything mentality. It used to be the I "will" fix everything, now I know when to ignore and move on. That boat is probably rotten, trailer probably needs a lot of care, so really all you are buying for $500 is the motor, since its all you need right? I have seen plenty of 50hps in good running condition in the $350-750 range. I dont think I would fix that motor if it was given to me, honestly.

 

[jimmbo]

It's a 73. is has the hydro-mechanical shift. A 71-72 wouldn't have a shift cable, and the 74-75 were gold

 

[Can'tFishEnough]

Honestly, since that thing has been setting outside and soaking up the elements, I think you are going to run into some major issues with it. Even if the internals are in good shape, look at your controls, power trim, all your fuel lines and electrical lines in the engine.

I have the I can fix everything mentality. It used to be the I "will" fix everything, now I know when to ignore and move on. That boat is probably rotten, trailer probably needs a lot of care, so really all you are buying for $500 is the motor, since its all you need right? I have seen plenty of 50hps in good running condition in the $350-750 range. I dont think I would fix that motor if it was given to me, honestly.

Thanks sutor623 -- good thoughts. I've been wavering between the thought of being able to fix it, but will it take too long to deal with and what will the final cost be after it's all said and done... Like I said above, I don't have much experience with remote steering and power other than using them on rental boats in the past. He's actually asking 400 - I was hoping I could get the motor and then dump the hull and maybe sell the trailer for a couple hundred on craigslist. (I also don't have much experience with old fiberglass boats other than the canoe I'm trying to patch up but that doesn't have to hold the weight and torque of an outboard.)

I have not hardly seen anything in the 45 to 50 hp range for sale locally for less than 1500 or so unless it's even older than mid 70s. I really didn't want anything older than mid 80s or early 90s if possible... under/around $1000 or so... but am not holding my breath.
Other ideas where to look other than Craigslist/ebay?

Anyone else want to talk me out of it this is what I was looking for - the wisdom from those experience enough to know when a good thing is not

 

[Can'tFishEnough]

It's a 73. is has the hydro-mechanical shift. A 71-72 wouldn't have a shift cable, and the 74-75 were gold

can someone point me to info on how this hydro mechanical shift works? I'm imagining something like a brake system in a car switching from fwd to neutral to reverse... or is it a mechanical cable doing shifting using hydraulics at the engine? I'll have to look at some diagrams to see if I can understand whats going on.

I'm guessing best case scenario, all that will function with new fluid and seals - but that may be more work and money that I want to deal with right now. I was already expecting to change all the fuel lines but all my motors so far have had working ignition and manual tilt/trim, and manual throttle and shifting.

 

[jimmbo]

In the 1973 Evinrude Brochure they describe it as "Power assisted mechanical shift with positive mechanical follow through". It somehow used pump supplied oil pressure to assist the movement of the clutch dog. but still could shift without the assist. Sounds like double-speak to me. They probably utilized it to speed up the shift action.

 

[racerone]

It is simple and exactly as described in the brochure.-----Oil pump when turning provides pressure to make for effortless shifting.----Will still shift without oil pressure too.

 

[thdrduck]

If I could get it for nothing or near nothing and had a place to "hide" it while I dug into it, I might take it. I like to play with boat motors and get satisfaction at hearing one run after it sat neglected since god first made dirt. From the looks of it you could have quite a bit into it in just controls. Just me... but $400 is way more then I would give for it.

 

[Can'tFishEnough]

If I could get it for nothing or near nothing and had a place to "hide" it while I dug into it, I might take it. I like to play with boat motors and get satisfaction at hearing one run after it sat neglected since god first made dirt. From the looks of it you could have quite a bit into it in just controls. Just me... but $400 is way more then I would give for it.

Well this one has been sitting for a while --maybe not since dirt was made, but shortly after grass started growing in it
I understand the satisfaction thing - that is sorta what I was thinking too - but yeah, I'm starting to feel like the asking price is too much for the gamble. I'm just not that comfortable or familiar with the remote stuff and don't know how to estimate the time/cost involved in making sure the engine can run, shift, be trimmed remotely, and steer etc. I thought it's be a good jump in and get my feet wet with those types of controls. Maybe it's not the time for a sink or swim project

thanks, racerone and jimmbo for info on the shifter as well. That helps. Am I correct in thinking that this oil for the shifter is a separate hydraulic system from the trim/tilt, as well and that it's something integrated to the lower unit oil that's already in there?

 

[sutor623]

I'll say it one more time and then leave ya alone. By the looks of those pictures, DON'T DO IT!!!! Its almost summer time and time for fun. Spend you a little extra, get a running motor and slap her on there.

I have gotten to work on projects that look like they were neglected like the one you are dealing with.

Now if it were winter time, maybe a better time for a project. If you don't have a wife, child or a fulltime job, maybe a good call for you. For me, I can barely get on the water as much as I want, so tinker time soaks up all my fishin time.

I blew my engine and it was in late november. Perfect timing! Plopped on a new powerhead and I broke her in slowly in the winter, and now I'm on them spring-time striped bass!!

 

[oldboat1]

I would take a look at the Chrysler rig next to it -- might be a better prospect.

 

[Can'tFishEnough]

I'll say it one more time and then leave ya alone. By the looks of those pictures, DON'T DO IT!!!! ...

For me, I can barely get on the water as much as I want, so tinker time soaks up all my fishin time.

yeah, I'm 98% there :frusty: still just have the "maybe it will be easier than expected to fix" bouncing around in there.
You can see by my log in name I rarely get much time to fish - with kids' sports and etc. etc... It's a major ordeal to plan to go out then hope the weather is right.

The 25 hp I have works fine for me, but just wanted a little more speed and a little more power for heavier loads.

 

[Can'tFishEnough]

I would take a look at the Chrysler rig next to it -- might be a better prospect.

he wants to sell that one too, but the motor is a 55 or 60 hp and would be too big for my boat. It would end up being a total rig upgrade and probably require floors and stringers etc... Though it also has all the paperwork I know absolutely nothing about Chrysler motors other than they're outboards and it's also probably 30+ years old.


If I had somewhere to park it to work on it I'd probably go that direction and use the one I have for this season.

Thanks all for the help and wisdom.

 

[interalian]

I wouldn't touch that boat or trailer with a barge pole, but would consider reviving the motor if he was willing to separate. Maybe $150-200 max for the motor and the remote.