Sticking solinoid?

[MiJust]

I am bit perplexed. Was having a intermittent start issue. I.e. engine cranked fast on first turn of key but then subsequent key turns ( when needed ), it may not crank. Nothing. No click. Nothing. Wait and it might turn over after a bit. Jumping to starter, starts fine. If fortunate to get started with key on first try and let warm up a bit ( several minutes ), it would re start just fine. Took boat out of slip and home. Had wife turn key to start. One time doing this it did not crank. She held key in start position and I measured 12+ volts at both small terminals but no crank, telling me the safety neutral switch was ok. Voltage input at larger terminal was also 12+ v.

On a subsequent attempt to start she turned key and it began to crank. Asked her to turn it off and it continued to crank. She pulled the key and held it up for me to see. It continued to crank. I tapped the solinoid with a wrench and it stopped. Repeated this process, same results. Tried again and no crank but 12+v at both small terminals. Concluded bad solinoid. Purchased new solinoid. Bench tested and worked fine ten times in a row. Installed. Turned key and nothing. No crank.

So, my only conclusion at this point is:
1) I have a 2nd solinoid that is bad. Or 2) There is some sort of intermittent ground or connection issue.
My next step is to examine and clean all wiring connections. Might pull the new solinoid off and retest. Just to see if it still works when NOT installed.
PS boat sat in slip continuously for a year.

Any thought? Appreciated

 

[racerone]

So what motor is this ?---

 

[Crosbyman]

Basically , starter selenoid are just electro magnets to close a high amperage contact between in and out B+12v to feed the starter .

A) the internal winding must be energized to close the contacts
b) Internal contact surfaces must be clean and smooth to carry high amperage and release

based on your description of having to TAP the selenoid that was keeping the starter going after having your wife removed the the key it sure looks like the contacts are sticking shut .
Conversly a no start result from dirty contact points. Dirty eventually leads to sticky .
If.. you can open the selenoid and reach the main contacts you could try to polish them up as a test but the issue will likely return.

Bench testing unless done at the same amperage rate of the starter may be inconclusive. Think of a welder's welding rod sticking on the surface of a weld spot ! Simple clicking does not test the load and release characteristics of the contacts

an intermittent (open) ground would not cause the selenoid to HOLD it would prevent the magnet pulling the contacts shut.

what would hold up the relay is a permanent +12v on the START control wire.... which is unlikely because tapping the selenoid cleared the problem.

Marine selenoids are different from automotive ones make certain you have the correct replacement.

one reason for burning up relay contacts and causing sticky contacts is a high amperage load needed (or fed) to the starter itself . If you have a clamp-on meter try to measure that amperage while the starter runs .

has requested indicate your engine mdl /yr because different circuitries exist

 

[racerone]

I can not see what you are doing.----Perhaps clamping the solenoid so tight that it is jamming it.-----I was not there !----Model # is ??

 

[F_R]

+12V at both small terminals tells you right there that one of the small terminals is not grounded. Now the big question is is it a OMC solenoid or has somebody put a car solenoid in it?

 

[racerone]

Agreed it could be the wrong solenoid.----Simply because the parts counter clerk and the buyer do not know that there is a difference.------And the model # of the motor is still top secret.

 

[Crosbyman]

One time doing this it did not crank. She held key in start position and I measured 12+ volts at both small terminals but no crank, telling me the safety neutral switch was ok.

F..R yep ..... that doesn't sound right does it .... if the "other side " was grounded properly via a neutral safety device their would be no 12V on that one side ...being at the ground level... according to Mr. Ohms if I recall.

ho well....we will sort it out at one point.

 

[MiJust]

I am bit perplexed. Was having a intermittent start issue. I.e. engine cranked fast on first turn of key but then subsequent key turns ( when needed ), it may not crank. Nothing. No click. Nothing. Wait and it might turn over after a bit. Jumping to starter, starts fine. If fortunate to get started with key on first try and let warm up a bit ( several minutes ), it would re start just fine. Took boat out of slip and home. Had wife turn key to start. One time doing this it did not crank. She held key in start position and I measured 12+ volts at both small terminals but no crank, telling me the safety neutral switch was ok. Voltage input at larger terminal was also 12+ v.

On a subsequent attempt to start she turned key and it began to crank. Asked her to turn it off and it continued to crank. She pulled the key and held it up for me to see. It continued to crank. I tapped the solinoid with a wrench and it stopped. Repeated this process, same results. Tried again and no crank but 12+v at both small terminals. Concluded bad solinoid. Purchased new solinoid. Bench tested and worked fine ten times in a row. Installed. Turned key and nothing. No crank.

So, my only conclusion at this point is:
1) I have a 2nd solinoid that is bad. Or 2) There is some sort of intermittent ground or connection issue.
My next step is to examine and clean all wiring connections. Might pull the new solinoid off and retest. Just to see if it still works when NOT installed.
PS boat sat in slip continuously for a year.

Any thought? Appreciated

1976 Evinrude, model 70673

 

[MiJust]

One time doing this it did not crank. She held key in start position and I measured 12+ volts at both small terminals but no crank, telling me the safety neutral switch was ok.

F..R yep ..... that doesn't sound right does it .... if the "other side " was grounded properly via a neutral safety device their would be no 12V on that one side ...being at the ground level... according to Mr. Ohms if I recall.

ho well....we will sort it out at one point.

Well, and I wondered about that. As I described above, I thought that 12v on the other side meant the neutral safety switch was ok and bought a new solinoid but now that it doesn't crank, I agree w you. Something needs checked out on the neutral safety side. I don't think a ground is being provided. Not sure what or how to check. Have cover off of shifter and the neutral safety switch closes when depressed and opens when not. Not sure what I should be reading at the solinoid from that switch.

 

[MiJust]

Agreed it could be the wrong solenoid.----Simply because the parts counter clerk and the buyer do not know that there is a difference.------And the model # of the motor is still top secret.

Model is 1976, 70hp, model 70673

Solinoid, the first and the new one Sierra replacements for OMC.

 

[racerone]

Replace the wee ground wire on the solenoid ?

 

[MiJust]

+12V at both small terminals tells you right there that one of the small terminals is not grounded. Now the big question is is it a OMC solenoid or has somebody put a car solenoid in it?

Sierra replacement for OMC

 

[MiJust]

Replace the wee ground wire on the solenoid ?

What is a wee ground wire?

 

[MiJust]

I can not see what you are doing.----Perhaps clamping the solenoid so tight that it is jamming it.-----I was not there !----Model # is ??

Model # 70673

 

[MiJust]

So what motor is this ?---

70 hp, Evinrude, 1976

 

[F_R]

OK, then with that info, there should be 12v on only one small terminal when key is turned to start. Other terminal is grounded, either by safety switch or directly. I believe it is directly on that model.

 

[racerone]

There should be a small black wire from small solenoid terminal to ground.--I can not see your motor.-----But that is the way it is wired on motors that I have !---

 

[MiJust]

OK, then with that info, there should be 12v on only one small terminal when key is turned to start. Other terminal is grounded, either by safety switch or directly. I believe it is directly on that model.

Hmmm, I'm getting 12 v on both terminals with key in start position

 

[MiJust]

There should be a small black wire from small solenoid terminal to ground.--I can not see your motor.-----But that is the way it is wired on motors that I have !---

Ok, yes there is. I'll go replace it. Earlier I shined all connectors w 220 g sand paper. They really weren't corroded but did it anyway. I'll go replace it right now

 

[MiJust]

Ok, yes there is. I'll go replace it. Earlier I shined all connectors w 220 g sand paper. They really weren't corroded but did it anyway. I'll go replace it right now

Ok, replaced the black ground wire. No change. Still have no crank and 12v to both small terminals.