1978 Johnson 140hp running rough. Need advice

saltchuckmatt

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Certainly lots of good info here, did you use OEM parts on the carb in the beginning? Welch plugs are easy in my mind...I use I drip of lock tight sealer.

To many compression tests and to much writing, not enough diagnosing.

Work until it's fixed.

What happens when you pump the primer ball?
 

Bman2895

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Certainly lots of good info here, did you use OEM parts on the carb in the beginning? Welch plugs are easy in my mind...I use I drip of lock tight sealer.

To many compression tests and to much writing, not enough diagnosing.

Work until it's fixed.
First time i used the kits the fella i got the boat from gave me. aftermarkets. I later used OEM kits and that helped alot. New welch plugs and alittle sealer. Currently It'll fire right up. Idles good.

Now what happens MOST of the time now is the engine really struggles to transition idle and part throttle-full throttle. Tends to fall on its face and stall. Priming the bubble doesn't seem to help. I can purposely keep the choke on and crank it for a moment. Flooding it basically. Then choke off and letting it fire up. As long as I give it throttle right after that it'll take off no fuss. Im thinking the issue lies in the idle circuits but I've been through them completely from bowl to the litte holes in the throat of the carb. Flows fine. Kinda stumped unless i just need bigger idle jets.
 

Crosbyman

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actually the idle cct isn'Tused much at wot so that is not the problem
tried letting warm up a few minutes
make certain both 6 &10 are clean !! float set ok ?
 
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Bman2895

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actually the idle cct isn'Tused much at wot so that is not the problem
tried letting warm up a few minutes
make certain both 6 &10 are clean !! float set ok ?
Its runs fine at WOT. It just struggles to go between idle and WOT. Say I'm sitting idling and want to go to part throttle for any reason. Or loading on the trailer. Or if I'm idling and go to blast off the motor just falls on its face and stalls.

But if i hold the choke and let it load up on fuel for a moment before letting it start then immediately throttle it takes off fine.
 

saltchuckmatt

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First time i used the kits the fella i got the boat from gave me. aftermarkets. I later used OEM kits and that helped alot. New welch plugs and alittle sealer. Currently It'll fire right up. Idles good.

Now what happens MOST of the time now is the engine really struggles to transition idle and part throttle-full throttle. Tends to fall on its face and stall. Priming the bubble doesn't seem to help. I can purposely keep the choke on and crank it for a moment. Flooding it basically. Then choke off and letting it fire up. As long as I give it throttle right after that it'll take off no fuss. Im thinking the issue lies in the idle circuits but I've been through them completely from bowl to the litte holes in the throat of the carb. Flows fine. Kinda stumped unless i just need bigger idle jets.
I think your carbs should be boiled in a ultrasonic mechanical cleaning machine. And then go through it.

What you describe is exactly true. Falls on its face when you go to hit it. Lean situation.

Probably not good for it at all.
 

saltchuckmatt

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Fl
Its runs fine at WOT. It just struggles to go between idle and WOT. Say I'm sitting idling and want to go to part throttle for any reason. Or loading on the trailer. Or if I'm idling and go to blast off the motor just falls on its face and stalls.

But if i hold the choke and let it load up on fuel for a moment before letting it start then immediately throttle it takes off fine.
Floats set incorrectly can also effect the fuel flow.

Crosbyman is very wise.
 

Crosbyman

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ask CHAT GPT for option...
what would cause a 1978 Johnson 140hp running rough at wot ?

Mat

as to wisdom... I only repeat what I learned from all of you guys ...and Racer fills the gaps :) :)
 

Bman2895

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I think your carbs should be boiled in a ultrasonic mechanical cleaning machine. And then go through it.

What you describe is exactly true. Falls on its face when you go to hit it. Lean situation.

Probably not good for it at all.

Ive been through them a few times haha, But yes I've been needing a reason to buy a Ultrasonic cleaner. Ive shot cleaner every direction possible and its all flowing. Surprisingly simple carbs really. No adjustments other than the throttle blades.

Bass fishing i do alot of spot hopping. And the engine has "faked me out" before because ill think the issue is resolved due to the first launch or two of the day it always does alright, But after the 2nd or 3rd time you've stopped and restart the engine to take off thats when it starts acting up and will continue to do this the rest of the day.
 

saltchuckmatt

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ask CHAT GPT for option...
what would cause a 1978 Johnson 140hp running rough at wot ?

Mat

as to wisdom... I only repeat what I learned from all of you guys ...and Racer fills the gaps :) :)
Yeah, and I don't think his original question was " running rough at wot"

But your very polite!
 

saltchuckmatt

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Ive been through them a few times haha, But yes I've been needing a reason to buy a Ultrasonic cleaner. Ive shot cleaner every direction possible and its all flowing. Surprisingly simple carbs really. No adjustments other than the throttle blades.

Bass fishing i do alot of spot hopping. And the engine has "faked me out" before because ill think the issue is resolved due to the first launch or two of the day it always does alright, But after the 2nd or 3rd time you've stopped and restart the engine to take off thats when it starts acting up and will continue to do this the rest of the day.
When have you replaced all the fuel lines.... fuel filters?

I suggest starting with a portable tank and see what happens....otherwise boil it out and use OEM parts.

No OLD gray fuel line and no wing nuts.

Going old school on you!
 

jimmbo

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When you reinstalled the Carbs, did you do a Link and Sync? Not only do both carbs have to be fully closed at Idle, but they both have to open at the same Time and equally, plus be in Sync with the Timing Advance.
 

Bman2895

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So yeah I did set both blades fully closed at idle. And atleast watching them they do appear to be opening at the same time. As far as the timing side goes I'm not familiar enough with it to know where all that needs to be set. Im familiar with timing in the automotive sense. Small blocks and setting timing with timing lights and distributors. Its where it was set when I got it. And it does move without issue and does reach full timing swing at WOT.

I also picked up a spare engine for parts. An 83 johnson 140. Got it real cheap as the guy said he bought a lot of them and was selling them for parts only due to all of the engines having some kinda of mechanical issue. And I was planning to just use the heads and possibly the carbs from it, but i ran a compression test on it and got 125 125 120 and 110. Now the 110 cylinder the piston is definitely chewed up im guessing from a ring failure. But the cylinder didn't look too bad on the bore scope. Is it worth fixing the one down cylinder or just doing what I planned and taking the parts?
 
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Mc Tool

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So yeah I did set both blades fully closed at idle. And atleast watching them they do appear to be opening at the same time. As far as the timing side goes I'm not familiar enough with it to know where all that needs to be set. Im familiar with timing in the automotive sense. Small blocks and setting timing with timing lights and distributors. Its where it was set when I got it. And it does move without issue and does reach full timing swing at WOT.

I also picked up a spare engine for parts. An 83 johnson 140. Got it real cheap as the guy said he bought a lot of them and was selling them for parts only due to all of the engines having some kinda of mechanical issue. And I was planning to just use the heads and possibly the carbs from it, but i ran a compression test on it and got 125 125 120 and 110. Now the 110 cylinder the piston is definitely chewed up im guessing from a ring failure. But the cylinder didn't look too bad on the bore scope. Is it worth fixing the one down cylinder or just doing what I planned and taking the parts?
I think that sticking to a plan is best otherwise you could be chasing your tail .
If that were me I would satisfy myself that the rings on your wisco pistons were not stuck , wether you take the pistons out or just spy thru the ports , and then fit the correct heads .
The symptoms you describe certainly seem to hang around those idle transition orifices in the carbs .
I have just had ....two supposedly same carbs for the same engine with different sized idle progression holes and different idle jet . The original carb worked fine .....tother one idled lean and went very rich as soon as the 2nd progression hole was exposed ( which made it difficult to get off idle , had to whack the throttle open enough to get it to run clean but then it took off faster than just putting ) but did full power well. If a hike in compression doesnt clean things up a bit ( it may well do so ) I would at the least look at the idle progression holes and compare them to the carbs presently fitted ......or just fit the other carbs .
Only other thing I would want to do is check the condition of the reeds .......dunno why I just would 😁.
As an aside ,throttle spindle bushes can be made ......I went to a model engineering shop and bought thin wall brass tubing with the same internal dia as the spindle , used a drill bit as a reamer to resize the spindle bores in the carb body , epoxied the tube into the carb body and trimmed with the dremmel.
I drove the drill bit straight in with a hammer so it went thru both sides of the carb , put drill shank in the vice and rotated the carb body around the drill bit the idea being to preserve alignment.....worked a treat (Weber dgav carb) but would work for anything as long as the drill bit is long enough to do both sides at once . Only had to remove a 32nd inch dia so it was just a shaving and the tubing was imperial sizing. 😁
 
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saltchuckmatt

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Just to add, spray some propellent next to the carb shaft sides and post what it does and how does the linkage compare to the new used one.
 

Crosbyman

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have a buddy run the starter for you while you put your hand in front of the carb face to see if you feel a good projgressive suction from the crankcase vacum created during the upstrokes.
 

Crosbyman

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fwiw... here is a CHAT GPT diagnostic...
what would cause rough idle and difficulty to accelerate up to wot on a 1978 Johnson 140hp

On a 1978 Johnson 140 hp (V4 cross-flow, carbureted), rough idle and poor acceleration to WOT are usually caused by problems in a few very specific systems. These motors are simple but very sensitive to fuel delivery, ignition timing, and synchronization.
Below is a priority-ordered diagnostic list, based on what most commonly causes exactly the symptoms you describe.

1. Fuel delivery issues (MOST COMMON)​

A. Dirty or partially clogged carburetors​

That engine uses multiple carbs (2-barrel). If one carb is lean, the engine will:
  • Idle rough
  • Bog or stumble when accelerating
  • Sometimes run better near WOT (or never quite reach it)
Check:
  • Low-speed jets and idle circuits (they clog easily)
  • Float height (too low = lean bog)
  • Sticking floats or needles
➡️ Even if it “runs”, carbs that aren’t perfectly clean cause this exact symptom.

B. Weak fuel pump or air leak​

  • Cracked fuel hoses (especially original gray hoses)
  • Weak or torn fuel pump diaphragm
  • Loose hose clamps
  • Air leak at fuel connector
Symptoms:
  • Engine dies or bogs when throttle opens
  • Must pump primer bulb to accelerate
  • Primer bulb collapses at speed

2. Ignition system problems (VERY COMMON on late-70s OMC)​

A. Cracked or failing ignition coils​

OMC coils from this era often:
  • Crack internally
  • Misfire under load
  • Idle roughly but rev OK unloaded
Check:
  • Visible cracks or carbon tracking
  • Weak or yellow spark
  • Spark jumping to ground at idle
➡️ Replace as a set if original.

B. Bad power pack or stator (under load failure)​

  • Engine idles but breaks down when accelerating
  • One cylinder may drop intermittently
  • Timing may not advance correctly
Test:
  • Check strong spark on all 4 cylinders
  • Drop-cylinder test at idle
  • Timing light while accelerating (see if advance moves smoothly)

3. Timing advance & throttle synchronization (CRITICAL)​

If carbs open before timing advances, the engine will:
  • Fall on its face when you throttle up
  • Idle poorly
  • Never reach full RPM

Key checks:​

  • Timing advance linkage moves freely
  • No sticking timer base
  • Throttle pickup occurs after timing begins advancing
  • WOT timing is correct (usually ~28° BTDC, verify for your exact model)
➡️ Incorrect sync is one of the #1 reasons these motors bog.

4. Dirty or restricted idle circuits (specific symptom)​

If it:
  • Idles rough
  • Clears up slightly above idle
  • Then bogs again under load
This almost always means:
  • Idle air bleed clogged
  • Progression holes blocked
These cannot be cleaned by spraying carb cleaner—full disassembly is required.

5. Compression imbalance​

Less common, but must be ruled out:
Check compression:
  • All cylinders within 10% of each other
  • Typically ~120–140 psi on a healthy crossflow
Low compression on one cylinder = rough idle + poor acceleration.

6. Reed valve problems​

  • Broken or chipped reeds
  • Causes rough idle and weak low-speed response
Symptoms:
  • Sneezing/backfiring through carbs
  • Fuel mist blowing back out

7. Exhaust housing leaks (less common)​

  • Leaking exhaust gasket or tuner
  • Causes loss of low-speed scavenging

Where I would start (efficient order)​

  1. Compression test
  2. Spark test on all cylinders
  3. Carburetor cleaning & float check
  4. Fuel pump diaphragm inspection
  5. Ignition timing & throttle sync
  6. Check coils for cracks

Quick question to narrow it down​

Does it:
  • Bog immediately when you open the throttle, or
  • Accelerate slowly but smoothly, or
  • Miss/pop/backfire?
That single detail can pinpoint whether this is fuel, timing, or ignition.

bogs quickly upon acceleration

A quick bog the instant you open the throttle on a 1978 Johnson 140 hp is a classic symptom on these motors. That narrows it down very well.

The MOST likely causes (in order)​


1. Timing advance NOT starting before carbs open ⭐⭐⭐

On this engine, timing MUST begin advancing slightly BEFORE the throttle plates start to open.
If the carbs open first → instant lean bog.

What commonly goes wrong​

  • Timer base sticking on the crank
  • Dry or corroded timing linkage
  • Misadjusted throttle pickup screw
  • Worn cam follower

Quick test​

  • Remove the airbox
  • Slowly advance the throttle
  • Watch the timing arm:
    • It should move before the carb plates begin to open
If carb plates move first → bog guaranteed.
➡️ This is the #1 cause of snap bog on V4 OMCs.

2. Plugged idle / transition circuits in carbs ⭐⭐⭐

When you snap the throttle, the engine runs entirely on the idle and progression circuits for the first second.
If even one carb is partially blocked:
  • Engine falls flat instantly
  • May recover if you feather the throttle
  • WOT might still be OK eventually

Typical clues​

  • Engine will accelerate slowly if you roll the throttle on gently
  • Sneezing or coughing through carbs
  • Rough idle
➡️ Fix requires full carb disassembly, soaking, wire-cleaning of all idle and progression passages.

3. Weak ignition coils breaking down under load ⭐⭐

Even if spark looks OK at idle:
  • Coils crack internally
  • Snap throttle causes instant misfire
  • Engine bogs instead of revving

Check​

  • Look for cracks or black tracking lines
  • Run in the dark and look for arcing
  • Use timing light on each lead during acceleration

4. Lean condition from fuel supply problem ⭐⭐

Less likely than timing/carb, but still common.

Check​

  • Primer bulb stays hard during snap acceleration
  • Fuel pump diaphragm soft or torn
  • No air leaks at connectors or hoses
If pumping the primer bulb improves acceleration → fuel pump or air leak.

5. Sticking timer base (VERY common on older OMC)​

Even if linkage looks fine:
  • Timer base can stick suddenly
  • Timing jumps instead of advancing smoothly

Test​

  • With engine OFF, rotate timer base by hand
  • It should snap back freely
  • If sticky → clean and lightly lubricate (OMC grease)

What I would do FIRST (10-minute checks)​

  1. Remove airbox → verify timing moves before carb plates
  2. Snap throttle while watching timing arm (engine off)
  3. Pump primer bulb during bog test
  4. Look closely at ignition coils for cracks

Bottom line​

Instant bog = timing or idle circuit problem, not main jets.
On a 1978 Johnson 140, 90% of the time it’s throttle sync or dirty idle circuits.
 
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