16' CalGlass rebuild attempt started.

[Lightnig]

After a couple of weeks of hemming, hawing and researching, I've decided to start to tear into my 16' Calglass project. It's basically a basket case as it is now, and since this is my first boat/marine project I won't feel bad if I botch it.

See the original post about this boat here: http://forums.iboats.com/showthread.php?t=321391

I've done some searching around the area to see what's available, and have decided that people are far too optomistic about what their boats are really worth. I can get something complete for 3-4k, but even my newbie eyes can pick out many major flaws with all of them - like the mid 80's 18' I looked at last weekend. Soft floor through out, bad wiring on the engine, air intake and blower hoses disconnected or missing all together, suspect wiring for a lot of the electrics. And this one was $5k...


So, I'll undertake getting my 16' runabout seaworthy once again. At the very worst, I sink 3 or 4 hundred into the floor and transom and then discover it's too far gone and send it out to the recycler, I can handle that.


Started step one this afternoon, tearing out the floor. Before actually pulling it up I decided to drill a few holes to see what the state of affairs underneath was. Went at the floor with a 3/4" blade bit, went through that rotten floor like it wasn't even there, and then darn near lost the bit in the cavity underneath! Couldn't even touch the foam in there with my finger...

So I figure 'Great, at least it'll make it easy to remove the foam because it's completely decayed'.

So, time to start pulling up the floor. I discovered the easiest way to do it was with a 5" angle grinder and a 3/32" stainless blade. Cut through the old 'glass like butter, but once it hit wood it would stop.

took about 15 minutes to get the front section of floor cut from the hull, and the fiberglass joint between the front and rear floor sections cut through to the wood.

About 2 minutes of poking and prying with a prybar and scrapper and the front section came right up.

Then I discovered my foam was actually pretty good, seemed intact and not water logged at all, what there was of it - only filled about half the cavity.

Then I discovered the underside of the floor is completely bare, no glass at all.

 

[Lightnig]

The good news is that the stringer appears solid and well glassed. I gave a few whacks with a light hammer, and it seemed very solid. yay. But once I pick up my First batch of resin I'll drill a few holes to see what it looks like underneath the 'glass.

But that does raise a question - is a single stringer enough? The floor is approximately 40" wide towards the centre and then even slightly wider towards the transom, so that's almost 20" unsupported. Once I get the new floor in (3/4" is what I am planning to use), and a proper pour of foam under there, is this going to be enough support, or should I look at adding a couple of secondary stringers?


Anyway, started chipping out the foam since there is a crack in the hull under there and found that while it is still very well adhered to the hull the foam is very wet against the hull. Looking closer it appears that the final coat of glass was done very poorly and allowed water to seep between the hull itself and the foam, so out it all must come.

A view at the remaining back section of the floor, a better demonstration of the lack of foam.

Later this week is the rest of the floor, and then I'll look at pulling the existing transom. It actually appears to be in pretty decent shape, but after the plywood I saw in the floor I am sure it is crap wood too, so out it comes.

 

[keepNitreel]

Re: How cheaply is a CalGlass made???

Re: How cheaply is a CalGlass made???

All this stuff your pointing out is from the lack of proper care by previous owners not being cheaply made. You can separate the plywood because it's been staying wet from being outside uncovered for years or maybe even decades, not cheap, it's neglect.

 

[F14CRAZY]

Re: How cheaply is a CalGlass made???

Re: How cheaply is a CalGlass made???

I'd agree, it's mostly from neglect. If you replace what came out, even without sensible improvements, it'll last a long, long time if you take care of it properly

 

[Lightnig]

Re: How cheaply is a CalGlass made???

Re: How cheaply is a CalGlass made???

The destroyed glass on the decking is certainly neglect, but the lack of glass covering the wood, the lack of foam fill, the cheap plywood, 2! nails holding the fore deck to the stringer, and the really bad hull glass (I found a 6"*12" section of fibreglass had separated due to lack of resin between layers after I pulled up some foam) is simply cheap and poor workmanship on the part of the manufacturer.

Regardless, enough bellyaching about it. Time to suck it up, deal with it, move on and make it right.


Finished pulling up the deck last night. Big clouds of white dust, but it came up without any real difficulty. Unfortunately, I found the stringer is rotten too. the forementioned separation in the hull made for a weak spot that allowed water direct access to the bottom of the stringer, so it rotted from the bottom up.

So, this weekends task is to finish the removal of all the foam and remove the stringer and then I am going to start patching and reinforcing the soft spot in the hull.

After that, out comes the transom. I still haven't decided which way to remove it, but that's next weeks task.


So, those couple of questions I asked in my first post, can someone please help me?

With a 40" wide floor made from 3/4" wood, is a single stringer down the centre enough support? I am planning to properly fill the cavity with foam, so this will help too.

and

I am pretty sure that 1.5" thick transom is more than sufficient for a 75 HP OB, can you all confirm that this is correct, or should I go to a full 2" (of wood, with the addition of a few layers of glass/mat)?

 

[109jb]

Re: How cheaply is a CalGlass made???

Re: How cheaply is a CalGlass made???

Well. I'd say most everything you describe is typical of the construction methods I see in my 1988 Sea Ray Seville. Lets go through them.

1- Regular old exterior plywood for the deck. - Yep that's what my Sea Ray had. Looks like CDX.

2- No scarf joint at deck seams. - Yep that's what my Sea Ray had.

3- Deck not galssed on the bottom side - - Yep that's what my Sea Ray had. Just a coat of resin.

4- Foam soaked next to the hull - - Yep that's what my Sea Ray had. It did fill the cavity though.

On top of this, the boat has 2 stringers that are 25 inches apart and they were only glassed on the insie surfaces (ie:inside the ski locker and fuel tank compartment. The opposite side was bare except for a coat of resin and the stringers were only tabbed on one side too.

Keep in mind that this is a Sea Ray that is regarded as a high quality boat. Granted that this model was the cheapest they had back in 1988, but the construction is what it is. Min was toast from neglect, but I saw one just like it and talked to the owner. He bought it new and took care of it the way it should be. His still looked like new and was all original. Care is the key to making a boat last.

 

[Lightnig]

Re: How cheaply is a CalGlass made???

Re: How cheaply is a CalGlass made???

I find that quite interesting actually. Looks like bad on me for expecting better building standards than I found. Likely a case of me expecting everyone to do as good a job as is possible when the fact is manufacturers will always do things the cheapest way possible. I know they all do that (regardless of industry), but I guess I have a tough time accepting that.

 

[keepNitreel]

Re: How cheaply is a CalGlass made???

Re: How cheaply is a CalGlass made???

I find that quite interesting actually. Looks like bad on me for expecting better building standards than I found. Likely a case of me expecting everyone to do as good a job as is possible when the fact is manufacturers will always do things the cheapest way possible. I know they all do that (regardless of industry), but I guess I have a tough time accepting that.

Well, I remember the pic's of your boat from your other thread, everyone who replyed advised you to find a better hull including me. I don't understand what you are expecting or why you expected more . Even if the manufacturer would have constructed it better, that would just mean you would've had a harder time gutting the hull because the fact still remains that that hull looks like it was underwater for years.

 

[Lightnig]

Re: How cheaply is a CalGlass made???

Re: How cheaply is a CalGlass made???

yup, I know. Decided to put some work into this one due to a scarcity of decent hulls for reasonable price. I looked at a few, but unless I decided to spend $4k+ I would have ended up with something that still needed considerable work - floors at the very least, and most of the ones I looked at needed more than that. So I would have sunk a bunch of money into a boat right up front and then would have still have had to put a bunch more into it to get it into good shape.

So, decided to gut this one and start with a clean slate.

Besides, I can spend a few hundred dollars on this one, completely blow it, trash the hull and not feel bad about it, then call it a learning experience and the few bucks I am out won't hurt. Now if I go and do that with a hull that I pay a couple of grand for I will be really pissed... heh



here is a perfect example:

http://www.gilligansboats.ca/details.asp?CID=830

a nice 18' closed bow with a really good trailer. The hull is good but needs some work to get into good shape, the floor is soft and has been patched - so much so I can tell without even pulling up the carpet. The engine runs good, but the electrics under the cover are a complete dogs breakfast - even the blower hoses are either broken, cracked and not routed properly or missing entirely. But the interior looks decent at least.

and this one is definately one of the better ones I have looked at. It seems no one up here knows how to look after a boat so they fall into disrepair rather quickly, but everyone still wants a premium for their crap... =\

 

[keepNitreel]

Re: How cheaply is a CalGlass made???

Re: How cheaply is a CalGlass made???

I'm with you on your project, I don't know much but will help you where I can

 

[Lightnig]

Re: How cheaply is a CalGlass made???

Re: How cheaply is a CalGlass made???

heh, thanks. I appreciate that

Actually, I think I got it pretty well figured, it's more a matter of spare time, motivation, and cost control (controlling how much the other half thinks I'm spending on the project... )

I am sure I will hit snags where I need advice, but I figured I'd keep y'all updated and bring you along on the ride through this project.

 

[keepNitreel]

Re: How cheaply is a CalGlass made???

Re: How cheaply is a CalGlass made???

heh, thanks. I appreciate that

Actually, I think I got it pretty well figured, it's more a matter of spare time, motivation, and cost control (controlling how much the other half thinks I'm spending on the project... )

I am sure I will hit snags where I need advice, but I figured I'd keep y'all updated and bring you along on the ride through this project.

I feel yah on the other half thing, I'm doing that right now myself

Well, cost control should be at a minumum at first because you already have your grinder and tools for the tear down but you will also need a resporator, tyvek jumper & saftey glass/googles when it's time to grind the fiberglass.

watch CL & ebay for deals, they both have saved me from paying full price (saved hundreds)

Do you have any updates?

 

[Lightnig]

Re: How cheaply is a CalGlass made???

Re: How cheaply is a CalGlass made???

respirator (from simple dust masks up to and including full on half mask chemical respirator with interchangable filters), goggles, glasses, face shields, etc... I already have in the garage. All left over from my days of welding. More hand tools than I can shake a fist at, along with saws, sanders, grinders, die grinders, and the rest also left over from my days in the trades.


The suit is about the only thing I could really use at this point, and maybe a good circular saw and a reciprocating saw. But I'll just borrow the saws from a buddy if I find I really need one.

Well those, and boat load of resin.




And no, no updates yet. The wife decided to do a graduation party for my daughter and all her friends today, they finished the last day of school at elementary today so the back yard and house are full of 12 year old girls.


The floor is removed (but still sitting in the hull). Tomorrow I am going finish removing the foam and stringer, and then chase that bad spot on the keel. I picked up resin and mat today, so start grinding the hull. I think I am going to grind through ~ 90 % of the way through the hull and repair using poly resin and then finish off the last 10% from the outside and patch using epoxy.

If that works well then that's the plan for the transom. remove from the outside, build up and install the new trans with poly, reapply the glass from the out transom and then finish the rejoin with epoxy. I'd like to do the whole thing with epoxy, but unless I can find a local supplier the cost is not justifiable for this project. Build up and structural work with poly resin and epoxy for all water facing surfaces.

 

[jonesg]

Re: How cheaply is a CalGlass made???

Re: How cheaply is a CalGlass made???

heh, thanks. I appreciate that

Actually, I think I got it pretty well figured, it's more a matter of spare time, motivation, and cost control (controlling how much the other half thinks I'm spending on the project... )

I am sure I will hit snags where I need advice, but I figured I'd keep y'all updated and bring you along on the ride through this project.

go back and re-read your initial post on this hull, not everyone said it was a bad hull, I said mine was worse and I did mine.

when someone says don't do it ...they really mean themselves, they don't want to do it. I started with a bare hull, everything was rotted including the trailer. No-one would have wanted to do mine either, but I didn't ask them because I don't care what they think, opinions are worthless unless you pay good money to an expert (which I did). HE told me how to go about it and I did.

I listen to those who LIKE working on boats.
I'll also say those who don't like working with glass just don't know how to work with glass, because once you get the hang of it, its fun .
And if it ain't fun, don't bother.

 

[Lightnig]

Re: How cheaply is a CalGlass made???

Re: How cheaply is a CalGlass made???

go back and re-read your initial post on this hull, not everyone said it was a bad hull, I said mine was worse and I did mine.

Yeah, I remember that too.

I kind of like the clean slate idea. By time it's all said and done, I'm going to end up with what is essentially a new boat for about the same as a beat up one around here. It may not end up pretty, but it'll work well.

when someone says don't do it ...they really mean themselves, they don't want to do it. I started with a bare hull, everything was rotted including the trailer. No-one would have wanted to do mine either, but I didn't ask them because I don't care what they think, opinions are worthless unless you pay good money to an expert (which I did). HE told me how to go about it and I did.

I listen to those who LIKE working on boats.
I'll also say those who don't like working with glass just don't know how to work with glass, because once you get the hang of it, its fun .
And if it ain't fun, don't bother.

Haven't learned the 'glassing, yet, but I will.

But, the rest of it, I'm with you.

 

[keepNitreel]

Re: 16' CalGlass rebuild attempt started.

Sounds like you got it pretty much covered for the gut. Your first big purchase sounds like plywood, resin & cloth.

Jonesg your right, not everyone said it was a bad hull, it was everyone except you

Hey, I'm on board now and will help where I can. After it's done I will tell you I told you not to scrap that hull

 

[singinout]

Re: 16' CalGlass rebuild attempt started.

Hey man go for it! Like was said by some previous posters, I dont know an awful lot but I'll throw an idea or piece of advice if i got one! You sound like ya got the WILL! Actually sometimes thats the most important part! An for your first piece of advice from me: your project will never get done unless you have the WILL to get it done!! Some days you'll feel like dumping it but the will hangs in there and keeps on pluggin away!!

Gud luck man!

 

[jonesg]

Re: 16' CalGlass rebuild attempt started.

curiosity can be a great motivator, things I am familiar with don't always get the same motivation to completion. Thats why the food biz is called my work and boats are my hobby even though I expend a lot more energy in boats.

a hull thats cleaned out is either a lot of work or a clean slate ready to go, just depends on your mood I guess.

start looking for used parts, I see steering systems complete with the steering wheel for $100 all the time.

 

[Lightnig]

Re: 16' CalGlass rebuild attempt started.

What was left of the floor is now sitting in my garden, foam is all up and removed, Bilge framework is out.

Tomorrow the stringer is coming out, and then the sanding/clean up of the inside of the hull and if time permits I will start repairing the weak spot on the keel.


Boy, I gotta tell you guys; I completely retract any complaining I did about the lack of foam in there. What was there was 4 - 4 1/2" deep and maybe 10" at it's widest (on each side of the stringer), and man what a pain in the lower back to remove.

I started off with banana knife and a long carbon scraper, and that was taking forever. f**k that, I took a full size lino scrapper and a spade shovel to it and that brought it right up, now there is only a little bit left adhering to the hull that'll come right out with my grinder and a flap wheel.




It looks like the stringer is just a chunk of common dimensional lumber, maybe a 2"x6". I was playing with the idea of changing this to a pair of stringers each built from 2 stacked 3/4" plywood planks spaced about 8" off centre, which would provide far better support for the floor, but I imagine the single stringer right down the centre adds a lot of structural support of the keel. Any opinions on this idea?

 

[Lightnig]

Re: 16' CalGlass rebuild attempt started.

Well, here's what she looked like after the above session on Saturday

Had a bit of a crazy Sunday, but attacked it and got the stringer out. That was a royal pain in the rear to cut out, but once I figured out all I had to do was but the glass off the top of the stringer and then pull the wood core out the top of the slot, it became much easier.

Started cleaning up the loose ' glass chunks and was was left of the foam adhering to the hull, but my grinder quit on me (bad power cable, just need to cut and splice at the handle) and I ran out of beer, so I called it a night.


Oh, and the stringer core was just a chunk of 2"x5" dimensional. Anyone see any benefit to raising the floor an inch or two? I am thinking of adding a couple of storage bins in the floor and I would like to add a little more depth than would be there if I stick with the 5" depth that would exist with the previous deck height.