1960~70 Mirrocraft Ski 'N Troll Restore, First boat and I've got tons of questions!

[jbcurt00]

Re: 1960~70 Mirrocraft Ski 'N Troll Restore, First boat and I've got tons of question

Yes, the sides of the boat are the gunwales (gunnels)

Is it spray foam, or is it pourable foam that looks similar, but is different then typical GreatStuff spray foam.

Pix of the foam under the bow would be helpful

 

[Roadblock]

Re: 1960~70 Mirrocraft Ski 'N Troll Restore, First boat and I've got tons of question

OK! No problem! I will get some pictures. Could be poured in foam. I just assumed it was spray in because the front looks like the spray in 2-part crap we used at an old job and both the foam in the front and gunwells is the same color and texture.

Anyway will get some pictures or a video.

 

[Roadblock]

Re: 1960~70 Mirrocraft Ski 'N Troll Restore, First boat and I've got tons of question

Actually you can see it in this video at about 1:05 minutes in.

Also that is a new video with some things I'm wondering about. Like the tin sheet metal on the floor by the bilge pump and some other things if anyone wants to take time to watch it.

 

[jbcurt00]

Re: 1960~70 Mirrocraft Ski 'N Troll Restore, First boat and I've got tons of question

Ok, so now we know the transom needs to be replaced. Sound wood just between the KNEE BRACES (angled metal brackets on either side of the bilge pump) isn't sufficient. And as before I suspect the transom's been replaced when a majority of the other work that's been done was completed.

The bilge pump was probably mounted to some sort of metal panel and attached to something else under the deck to keep the pump up off the hull bottom (some find the bilge pump screwed down to the hull, 3/4" or more of a screw sticking out under the boat :facepalm. What ever metal was used, has succumbed to weather & water damage.

Pour in foam has been around for a long time, and what's under your gunwales could be pour in foam, you'd just have to flip the boat over & work right side up. Or if perhaps someone knew a spray insulation crew & got them to spray the boat. Commercial contractor spray foam, NOT GreatStuff. Not knowing what kind of foam, IDK if it's any better then GreatStuff or any worse then pour in foam. However, if it's brittle & crumbles when you touch it, I don't think it'll be of much value once it comes in contact w/ water, like when your boat gets swamped.

Good plan to replace the wiring, and also wise not to cut into the Merc remote wiring. Garden hose wire chases, interesting. I guess at least they are green like the inside of the gunwale.....

Yes, it'll be very interesting to see what's below decks.

 

[Roadblock]

Re: 1960~70 Mirrocraft Ski 'N Troll Restore, First boat and I've got tons of question

I'd sure like to know what the transom looked like before it was replaced. Curiosity and what not!

As far as the bilge pump, no it's not threw the hull for sure. Although I guess if you were going to be stupid enough to do that, at least the leak is going to be UNDER the bilge pump!

I've got a friend that works for a company that laser cuts any kinda foam you can think of. It just hit me that I could probably have some custom foam blocks cut. Something waterproof to go into the gunwales and maybe a chunk cut to the shape of the front bow. Just a thought.

All of the wiring and the garden hoses are GONE! I have a fish finder mounted up front and then the mounting bracket to another one that is not there. One set of the wiring was for that. Then I had the wiring for power to the horn and front lights running back. Then another set for a toggle to the bilge pump. However the bilge pump is not even connected. I ran it the other day by touching wires to my battery. It's an 800GPH pump and boy let me tell you, I believe it. The water rocketed out like a damn jet stream!

Anyway all that is left now is the many power cabling for the MerControl, the control cables and the steering cable. Then the two power cables at the back that power it all up. I only have two wires to connect to a battery right now, I cut everything else. Going to replace all the wiring for the horn, both front and back lights and and add some toggle switches.

That is going to be part of making a wooden stained high gloss looking dash. Going to add a tach, speedo and battery gauges and toggle to turn stuff on. I already have all of the that, just need to source out wood for the dash and a new steering wheel.

I don't think I'm going to try to shape the wood to those knee braces. I think I'm going to run squared plywood from just forward of the knee braces so there is a 10~12 inch gap from the edge of the deck to the back of the boat like how the area where the bilge pump it. I plan to add a second gas tank and mount them up front so I'll be able to put my two batteries in the back long way across so the gap won't matter. Plus it will make it easy to see if water builds up back there.

Then I'm going to run the wood forward until the front starts to curve into the bow for now and I'll figure out how to cut and shape the front end curved part later. The original woods appears to be there but it crumbles when I touch it so no using it for a pattern.

I'm excited! This is going to be fun!

 

[Roadblock]

Re: 1960~70 Mirrocraft Ski 'N Troll Restore, First boat and I've got tons of question

I was just wondering...

So the transom, the original factory one. Would it have gone all the way from the very edge of the boat on one side to the other? The one in there now currently is only as wide at the cap on top of the transom that is riveted on. It's basically exactly as wide as the splashwell pan.

Also I just looked again at the transom cap thing or whatever you call it and the rivets are rusted so they must have been replaced because the ones used are NOT marine grade (not closed end aluminum) as where ALL the other exposed rivets are shiney silver and non-rusted so I assume they are aluminum.

 

[Bondo]

Re: 1960~70 Mirrocraft Ski 'N Troll Restore, First boat and I've got tons of question

I was just wondering...

So the transom, the original factory one. Would it have gone all the way from the very edge of the boat on one side to the other? The one in there now currently is only as wide at the cap on top of the transom that is riveted on. It's basically exactly as wide as the splashwell pan.

Also I just looked again at the transom cap thing or whatever you call it and the rivets are rusted so they must have been replaced because the ones used are NOT marine grade (not closed end aluminum) as where ALL the other exposed rivets are shiney silver and non-rusted so I assume they are aluminum.

Ayuh,.... The odds are, somebody else has been there, Before you,....

 

[jigngrub]

Re: 1960~70 Mirrocraft Ski 'N Troll Restore, First boat and I've got tons of question

We'll be able to see how your boat should go back together once you get all of the previous owners jack leg crapola removed so we can see the inner structure of your boat.

That's a pretty cool looking old boat and I'm sure she was beautiful when she was new, but age and unskilled hands have taken their toll on her... but you can change all of that and give her back the beauty she once had.

 

[Roadblock]

Re: 1960~70 Mirrocraft Ski 'N Troll Restore, First boat and I've got tons of question

Went out did a little closer inspection on the wood. It really doesn't seem like the transom and transom 2x4 brace are P/T but I could be wrong.

Also the main board of the transom turned out to be plywood. It's 1 1/2 inches thick and it LOOKS like two sheets of 3/4 inch bonded.

The deck is definitely P/T, the wood has that green chemical looking crap on it.

I've a gallon of West System resin and hardener sitting here and I just realized Menard's does stock Roseburg 3/4 4x8 Douglas Fir Marine plywood so I'm probably going to use that for the transom and maybe something cheaper for the deck so I can just pitch and replace when the carpet gets trashed.

Still not sure what to use for the 2x4 brace.

Going to take her out fishing Saturday and then start the rip down on Sunday. Will post pictures when I get the splashwell and the wood out. Did decide to just pull the splashwell. It's just riveted and the seams are caulked with some type of marine grade sealant.

 

[jbcurt00]

Re: 1960~70 Mirrocraft Ski 'N Troll Restore, First boat and I've got tons of question

One more video of what I see under the decking:

I think the countertop bracing puts the final nail in the 'does it need to be torn down' question. I think I also saw a piece of fairly new plywood just under the edge of the carpet, just at the beginning of the video ^^^. OVER the top of the wood mulch that is likely the original deck (floor).

If the foam is degraded, then I would remove it. If it isn't able to do what it's supposed to, keep the boat afloat, then it only hides other possible problems behind it. But not keeping the boat afloat would be my primary concern.


This also illustrates why, IMO, it's important to keep 1 primary restoration thread w/ ALL the info, details, pix, and questions in 1 place. I had to dig around to find that video, which I think offers ample info to suggest that less then ideal (to put it nicely, Jig will likely be much more blunt in his assessment) work has been done to this rig in the past.

Also, IMO, relying on videos, and my ability to watch them (some can't stream videos from work :faint2 or to have the time to watch them (some guys post 20-30min of video) can be a tall order. It does seem to be happening more frequently, and occasionally it is good to actually see some stuff via video or to learn how to do something by watching (like laying fiberglass for the 1st time). But I'd prefer to see 6 pix per post then 1 video.

Be safe running it Sat while fishing.

 

[Roadblock]

Re: 1960~70 Mirrocraft Ski 'N Troll Restore, First boat and I've got tons of question

OK well I think I've figured out what I'm doing for wood etc. After doing some reasearch and asking about wood types in another thread I'm going to use 2 layers of Roseburg Marine grade plywood from Menards and a 2x4 of Douglas Fir, straight grain cut.

I had some others look at my transom area and I think we have come to the conclusion that is is factory. I found another Mirrorcraft owner who has the SAME setup with the sideways 2x4 etc. Apparently they just over built this transom to begin with.

OK so I've got the plywood and the replacement 2x4 brace sorted out. I've figure out what epoxy (West System) I'm going to use. As for nuts, bolts and washers, I want stainless right? Rivets, stainless or aluminum? Closed end right?

So I'm going to be bonding two boards together. is there anything special I need to know about the cuts? One nice thing is the transom has no real shape to it. No curves or anything. It's almost complete squared on all sides.

So what process do I use for bonding? The guy from West Marine said to prep the wood cuts as close to size as I could then slap on a layer of West System on both surfaces I plan to mate and then press them together and clamp them down. Then I let that set up and then pull the clamps and fit the transom to the boat. Sand and fit as needed then hit the whole assembly with 2~4 coats and let that cure.

Then put transom back in boat and mark holes with a snap punch so they are nice and centered, drill holes, remove transom and seal the holes with more West System.

This was where I got confused, I keep reading about over sized holes and redrilling, and bonding the transom to the aluminum etc. Is all of this needed?

Then when I put the bolts in do I use some type of marine caulking/sealant on those?

Also on the outside of the boat, I have two 3/4 (23/32) backing boards the motor mount rests on. I'm also making those out of the same plywoord and triple sealing them with West System. Now should this be two boards like it is now (look as my picture to see what I mean) OR should this be one big board?

I'll be honest, I'm getting overwhelmed here!

Sorry for the messed up post, typed this all out on my iPAD!

 

[jigngrub]

Re: 1960~70 Mirrocraft Ski 'N Troll Restore, First boat and I've got tons of question

Also on the outside of the boat, I have two 3/4 (23/32) backing boards the motor mount rests on. I'm also making those out of the same plywoord and triple sealing them with West System. Now should this be two boards like it is now (look as my picture to see what I mean) OR should this be one big board?

The motor pad on the outside of the transom should be one piece of wood, some people like to cut that piece in the shape of an Isosceles Trapezoid because it looks nicer.

No real need to oversize and redrill your holes, you can drill the holes first and then epoxy your wood and coat the inside of your holes. The edges of your plywood and the insides of holes will be the most porous and will really suck up the epoxy, the epoxy penetration into the wood will seal it without having to put so much on you have to redrill. You'll also want to use 3M 4200 or 5200 marine sealant when installing bolts and screws through your hull skin. The epoxy resin plus the sealant will be a bulletproof waterproofing for any hull penetrations.

The epoxy resin will work well for bonding your 2 pieces of transom wood together, I personally like to use a powder filler to thicken up the resin for this application... not quite as thick as peanut butter, more like a mayonnaise consistency. A cheap and readily available powdered thickener is talcum powder, another one is wood dust/flour.

 

[jbcurt00]

Re: 1960~70 Mirrocraft Ski 'N Troll Restore, First boat and I've got tons of question

And if the exterior transom isn't toast from being exposed to the PT lumber, you can skip the exterior wood, or use an aluminum motor pad. I prefer none or aluminum pad on most aluminum boats:

Cool, 50's-60's cruisers, yep, wood:

Else, nope no wood on the outside, thank you...........

 

[Roadblock]

Re: 1960~70 Mirrocraft Ski 'N Troll Restore, First boat and I've got tons of question

I'm really starting to think the wood on the outside of the transom isn't P/T either. The motor bolts on the bottom are loose due to them pulling into the wood a little and I can slide a pry bar in there and flex the wood and back of the boat a little and get a decent look between the two. The finished looks better under the wood than on the rest of the boat.

The over laid deck, now that is for sure P/T. I'm almost worried what the underside is going to look like! Once the desk is pulled and the matting is out I'm going to pressure wash everything and scrub is down with um acetone or something regardless of what I find.

So I'm ready to go out fishing one last time tomorrow. Hopefully by this time Sunday night I'll at least have the motor off and the slashwell out.

I don't have a motor stand or any extra wood to make one, I'd be safe to just set the motor on it's side on an old wood table right on a couple blankets maybe?

 

[jigngrub]

Re: 1960~70 Mirrocraft Ski 'N Troll Restore, First boat and I've got tons of question

The half arsed motor pad on the outside of the transom shouldn't be a problem even if it is treated lumber because of the paint barrier between the lumber and the bare aluminum.

The new motor pad you plan to install will need to be painted over the epoxy resin sealer to protect the epoxy from UV breakdown. Painted the same color as the boat it'll blend in and won't be noticeable.

Your motor will be fine laying on some blankets and you can make a motor stand later when you get tired of the motor laying around.

 

[Roadblock]

Re: 1960~70 Mirrocraft Ski 'N Troll Restore, First boat and I've got tons of question

The half arsed motor pad on the outside of the transom shouldn't be a problem even if it is treated lumber because of the paint barrier between the lumber and the bare aluminum.

The new motor pad you plan to install will need to be painted over the epoxy resin sealer to protect the epoxy from UV breakdown. Painted the same color as the boat it'll blend in and won't be noticeable.

Your motor will be fine laying on some blankets and you can make a motor stand later when you get tired of the motor laying around.

OK that explains why it's clean under the outside motor pad then, the paint.

Yeah I do need to make a stand, would be nice to work on it off the boat.

I want to pull the cards and rebuild them just because, fuel pump too. I get a little dripping once in a while from the carbs. Probably because the engine sat with gas in it.

Lower unit needs a new seal too but she goes!

OK well I'm off to go put it in the water for a few hours before I rip into her! Thank god for bilge pumps!

 

[jigngrub]

Re: 1960~70 Mirrocraft Ski 'N Troll Restore, First boat and I've got tons of question

You should consider a new impeller (water pump) on that motor too, they're cheap and easy to install with lots of vids on youtube to show you how.

 

[Roadblock]

Re: 1960~70 Mirrocraft Ski 'N Troll Restore, First boat and I've got tons of question

The impeller was changed out last season by the previous owner (long time family friend) before he took it out on Lake Michigan a few times while his Bayliner was in for service.

I'm guessing that is why I'm getting water in the lower unit now, cough cough. Probably should have replaced any seals related to that and I bet he didn't.

It's not getting standing water in the lower, just enough that the gear oil is contaminated so I gotta drain it out as soon as it comes in off the water and fill it with fresh oil to keep any water out of stuff.

I already planned to do a carb rebuild, float replacement, change out ALL the vac and fuel lines and probably a fuel pump rebuild. All of the parts are under $100 dollar or so. Hell I only paid $750.00 for everything. The motor on it's own is worth more than $750.00 dollars so I'm not complaining.

Figured I would go ahead and replace the impeller and seals too while I'm at it.

Anyhoo, I'm going to call it a night. I just got the fluid drained in the lower unit and I'm beat. I've been out on the water over 8 hours today with little to no leakage I might add!

I've got my Bosch high-speed cordless drill on the charger and a pack of nitride coated drill bits sitting here. My wife is going to her mothers after Church to spend the day with her (mothers day and all) and I'm going to start drilling into rivets and cutting rusty bolts.

I will take before and step by step photos.

For those of you following this and giving me feedback and suggestions, THANKS!

 

[Roadblock]

Motor and transom cap off

Motor and transom cap off

OK well the motor is off and I've started to rip into the transom. Sun was high and hot today so I had to take a break.

Wood is so rotted that it's compressed in the middle and crushed in the outside top of the aluminum. No biggy, I can bang that flat once the slashwell it out.

Wish we could post more than 3 pictures per reply!

 

[Roadblock]

Re: 1960~70 Mirrocraft Ski 'N Troll Restore, First boat and I've got tons of question

So here is what I found under the wood planks (motor pad) on the outside of the boat.

No real damage, that is all sealant and dirt. Little denting too but again, I can pound that out. Looks like I have two sets of holes. One that was actually used and the other that was filled with some white sealant. Sure they were leaking water.

These were the bolts that were threw the motor mount into inner transom