1963 Elgin Restoration

[larcher]

Re: 1963 Elgin Restoration

More destruction...

Big pile o' trash.

Rear bulkhead gone:

My chicken scratching regarding measurements:

 

[jbcurt00]

Re: 1963 Elgin Restoration

You're the only one that needs to read the chix scratch

keep that paper safe & dry!

 

[larcher]

Re: 1963 Elgin Restoration

Safe and dry - no kidding!

 

[jigngrub]

Re: 1963 Elgin Restoration

This the front bulkhead. With the floor intact, it would have been watertight, so I guess it served as flotation? The small amount of foam shown in the earlier post wouldn't have been enough to keep her up me thinks. And there was no foam under the deck.Any thoughts?

Your boat was made before the USCG made level floatation a law, boats back then had little or no floatation. those pieces of beaded styrofoam were more for decoration than anything else and the little bow box is for strength (structural) and not for floatation.

I personally would stuff as much floatation as I could in that boat, starting with the below deck area. Since you don't have a bilge drain (the drain hole in your transom is a deck drain) I'd fill the below deck area completely and solid with expanding urethane foam. This will serve 2 purposes floatation and it will completely block off that area from water infiltration... there won't be any place for water to accumulate and will actually repel water from entering the area.

The next place would be your bow box. Cut the top of it out first and check for rot, it may be as rotten as your bench was... but it may not be since it was under the enclosed bow of the cap. If it isn't rotten fill it with foam, the expanding urethane would be best but you could use the rigid XPS sheet foam if you want.

The third place would be your bench bulkhead, build it back and fill it with foam befor capping it.

 

[sphelps]

Re: 1963 Elgin Restoration

Just read some history on Fiberglassics MFG library . It seems ,if I read correctly, that MFG produced boats for sears which included the Elgin model . They also made boats for Montgomery Wards .

 

[larcher]

Re: 1963 Elgin Restoration

I personally would stuff as much floatation as I could in that boat, starting with the below deck area. Since you don't have a bilge drain (the drain hole in your transom is a deck drain) I'd fill the below deck area completely and solid with expanding urethane foam. This will serve 2 purposes floatation and it will completely block off that area from water infiltration... there won't be any place for water to accumulate and will actually repel water from entering the area.
The third place would be your bench bulkhead, build it back and fill it with foam befor capping it.

jigngrub - thanks for weighing in - all great advice - very much appreciated. I have been thinking about extending the deck over the stringers behind the bench seat. This would achive three things (I think - if I'm undewrstanding you correctly) 1) provide additional strength, 2) add a tad more area to foam-fill, 3) allow for the addition of a small bilge box where I could add a pump. The deck drain would have to be re-drilled, but the whole transom is being rebuilt anyway.
Any thoughts on this would be appreciated.

 

[larcher]

Re: 1963 Elgin Restoration

sphelps - I remember reading that somewhere as well regarding MFG being the manufacurterer for Sear/Elgin. I'll have to poke around deeper in the Fiberglassiscs library.

 

[larcher]

Re: 1963 Elgin Restoration

This is a little off topic, but... a friend is looking at bidding on this boat - a 1989 Henry O 17'. 'wouod appreciate anyone who knows their fishing boats to weigh in.
Many thanks!
1989 Henry O 170 17'3" Used Fishing Boat & Trailer - South Carolina in Fishing Boats | eBay Motors

 

[jigngrub]

Re: 1963 Elgin Restoration

jigngrub - thanks for weighing in - all great advice - very much appreciated. I have been thinking about extending the deck over the stringers behind the bench seat. This would achive three things (I think - if I'm undewrstanding you correctly) 1) provide additional strength, 2) add a tad more area to foam-fill, 3) allow for the addition of a small bilge box where I could add a pump. The deck drain would have to be re-drilled, but the whole transom is being rebuilt anyway.
Any thoughts on this would be appreciated.

More strength and floatation is always a good thing.

This is a little off topic, but... a friend is looking at bidding on this boat - a 1989 Henry O 17'. 'wouod appreciate anyone who knows their fishing boats to weigh in.
Many thanks!
1989 Henry O 170 17'3" Used Fishing Boat & Trailer - South Carolina in Fishing Boats | eBay Motors

Your friend can probably expect rot and a restoration with that boat, it already looks like it's becoming a donor boat with the parts being stripped off and I'm surprised the motor isn't gone yet... but it may either be bad or needs work too.

 

[larcher]

Re: 1963 Elgin Restoration

More demo almost there.

Got the keel out - it was dimensional lumber rounded to fit the figerglass trough. Looks like it could be mahogany but it's hard to tell since it's so wet and blackened. It really wasn't attached to the hull, but was just sort of sitting in there (!), and glassed over. I guess it was glued in at some point in the past, but there was no evidence of any PB of any kind. I cut the glass off the top, and then pretty much just lifted it out! Here are a couple o' pics.

After looking at lots of posts, I'm pretty sure that I want to replace the keel with Seacast. Seems like the best way to get the tightest and strongest fit posible on what is a flimsy-ish hull. Figured that maybe I can knock out the transom and keel in one mix and pour session. Any thoughts on that plan would be appreciated.

Have also been picking away at the transom. It has spots that are rotted, and others that are still very solid but it's damp all the way through, so it's got to go.

Here's a big chunk. It always feels good when you can pry off a big chunk all at once, doesn't it!! :lol:

I'm down to the fiberglass in some spots - the green is the original glass. Why it's green I don't know, but it is on this boat. Does anyone know why? I assume it was the resin that was green, yes?

Which brings me to a question: Epoxy vs. Poly. What's the difference? Why one vs. the other? I know epoxy pretty well cuz I've built a cedar strip sailboat - the biggest issue is keeping it from running! I know nothing about poly, so any information is good, no matter how basic!

Much more to come!

 

[jbcurt00]

Re: 1963 Elgin Restoration

Now you've done it. In 1 post you've suggested using SeaCast VS wood to rebuild, then added the Epoxy VS Poly debate......

Better get a comfy chair, your favorite beverage & something to take notes on..... Advil, Tylenol or aspirin may also be required...........

There is no 1 answer to either seacast instead of wood, or epoxy vs poly.... Epoxy will take longer to cure & although you've used it in the past, some do develop an allergy to it, but has less toxic fumes. Poly ALWAYS requires a iso/vapor rated filtered mask. And the poly fumes can hang around & make the Admiral & the rest of your family very unhappy.... Epoxy is much more expensive, but in some applications you don't need to add fiberglass cloth.... Poly is cheaper but always requires some cloth/CSM... SeaCast is expensive, but if done correctly won't ever rot, ever.... Poly & wood is cheaper, but may not be a forever transom, 30+yrs yeah, if properly maintained & protected from the elements...

Use the advanced search feature from the resto home page:

SeaCast
& then
Epoxy VS Poly

There will be many many threads for you to read thru....

 

[m casey stock]

Re: 1963 Elgin Restoration

Each time I look at this boat I'm floored (no pun intended LOL :lol: ) at the amount of work you have done because it looked so good in your first pictures. I thought it looked great to start with and said to myself "Wow what a great find, all he will have to do is wash that beaut up and it will look like new. I know it will be super fine when you are done. Keep up the great work!

 

[larcher]

Re: 1963 Elgin Restoration

Each time I look at this boat I'm floored (no pun intended LOL :lol: ) at the amount of work you have done because it looked so good in your first pictures. I thought it looked great to start with and said to myself "Wow what a great find, all he will have to do is wash that beaut up and it will look like new. I know it will be super fine when you are done. Keep up the great work!

Hey thanks.
Well that's especially funny because that's EXACTLY what I thought when I first saw it!! I figured it needed SOME work, but didn't think it was a full resto! Oh well - something to be proud of when it's done right? I'm having fun!

 

[larcher]

Re: 1963 Elgin Restoration

Now you've done it. In 1 post you've suggested using SeaCast VS wood to rebuild, then added the Epoxy VS Poly debate......

I always seem to be causing trouble somehow!!

Thanks for the info and the search tips!

 

[m casey stock]

Re: 1963 Elgin Restoration

Hey thanks.
Well that's especially funny because that's EXACTLY what I thought when I first saw it!! I figured it needed SOME work, but didn't think it was a full resto! Oh well - something to be proud of when it's done right? I'm having fun!

That's right, for sure something I'd be proud of! I love restoring too, having fun with it is the best part.

 

[larcher]

Re: 1963 Elgin Restoration

Hey folks -

Now that I've almost got this thing completely apart, and can see the start of rebuilding on the horizon, I have a transom question. I see some people raise their transom height when restoring, and square it off on top, rather than having a dip in it like mine -- I'm wondering why would I want to do this? Do modern outboards have some sort of standard dimension that calls for this?

note the "dip" in the transom height - it's minor but it's there - not squared off on top.

Also, the rear end of the cap ends below the top of the transom - which is an odd design in my book. The end butts up agains the transome instead of covering it. Looks like a place for water to lurk. Does anyone think I should try to alter this design or am I over-thinking? (I do that) I am planning to keep her both covered and indoors when completed so maybe it's a non-issue?

Thoughts?

The Elgin I.D. plate is mounted on the inside of the transom - note how the cap ends a few inches below.

 

[jbcurt00]

Re: 1963 Elgin Restoration

There are 'usually' 2 sizes of transoms:

15" +/- transoms that 'need' a short shaft motor

20" +/- transom that use a long shaft motor

Here's how you measure:

Long shaft motors are MUCH more plentiful these days, so some may raise the transom to accommodate the longer motor. Extra height also reduces the amount of wakes &/or waves washing over the transom.

As to why the cap ends short, below the transom.... Well, I don't know any boat designers that worked for Sears or Elgin in the 60's :facepalm:..... But I'd for sure bet that it was for looks NOT function............. But I can't actually see what you're referring to in either of those pix. But it's been a long week....

If you think it's a place water will collect, maybe re-contour the area during the rebuild...

 

[sphelps]

Re: 1963 Elgin Restoration

I think he may be talking about the splashwell . The blue line below the name plate ?

 

[jigngrub]

Re: 1963 Elgin Restoration

Also, the rear end of the cap ends below the top of the transom - which is an odd design in my book. The end butts up agains the transome instead of covering it. Looks like a place for water to lurk. Does anyone think I should try to alter this design or am I over-thinking? (I do that) I am planning to keep her both covered and indoors when completed so maybe it's a non-issue?

Thoughts?

No need to worry, water intrusion won't be a problem with the boat covered and indoors... nor will it be out on the water.

One of the cool things about those deck drains is that you can pull the plug while on the water and the boat is on plane and all of the water will drain out of the boat (just remember to put the plug back in before slowing down).

My first boat was an old tinny jon that leaked like a seive. One of my favorite things to do was to wait for enough water to get in the boat when someone else was with me and then move to another spot. I'd pull the plug when they weren't looking and then yell "Oh my god! We're gonna DIE" and then show them the plug with a worried look on my face when they turned around.:laugh: ... then I'd show them how the water was draining out of the boat and have a big laugh, whoever was with me would usually say something like "I hope you know what the hell you're doing".

 

[larcher]

Re: 1963 Elgin Restoration

.......... But I can't actually see what you're referring to in either of those pix. But it's been a long week....

sorry - my fault - found a better picture:

And thanks for the engine shaft lenght info - makes sense. My tansom is currently 16.5 from top to bottom, dead center. if I were to square it off, it would be just shy of 19". But it would requires some slight modification of the cap, where it does wrap over. Am I making sense?