1963 Elgin Restoration

[larcher]

Re: 1963 Elgin Restoration

Another shot of the fit - cap & transom.

 

[jbcurt00]

Re: 1963 Elgin Restoration

Well, that clears up why I didn't understand from the description, which was accurate, but I can't understand why it was built that way. And have never seen one made that way.

I would expect that small piece of white plastic trim doesn't do a very good job of making the splashwell water tight. Or at least it doesn't compared to a splashwell that continues up & over the transom lip does.

Elgin made it much easier to remove the cap by building it that way. Your existing cap/transom looks like 1 of the ways some go about cutting the cap free from the transom. If those 2 Elgin labels weren't there, I might think someone cut that area out to remove the cap previously..

Strange.... 1960 boat builders, go figure :facepalm:

This is a 1960 Glastron FireFlite splashwell (same boat as mine):

You can see the 'cap' continues across the top of the transom & down into the splashwell, kind of..... All the blue is 'cap'...

 

[larcher]

Re: 1963 Elgin Restoration

Hi Folks!

I've been sanding, and grinding, and sanding, and grinding... so, with apologies to Eddie Rabbit:

"Ooooooo, I'm grindin' my life away,
Lookin' for a better way..."

Pictures tomorrow!

 

[jigngrub]

Re: 1963 Elgin Restoration

I was wonderin' where you were off to arch, glad to hear you were in the dungeon torturing yourself.

Lookin' forward to the pics!

 

[Drburke3]

Re: 1963 Elgin Restoration

You may enjoy this thread, which is a conversion of the next size down Elgin (red in your earlier cat page) to a flats skiff:
microskiff.com - 1967 Sears Skiff Rebuild in Progress

I just bought one myself for a similar project.

To add info, green pigment was added to the resin when a flame retardant was incorporated. A little safer in a fire and sometimes beneficial when insuring.

Polyester is cheaper resin and is nearly universally used in mass production as was noted. Poly sticks only to poly, but epoxy bonds well with both poly and epoxy, and some say is easier to use. Both have worked equally well for me.

Dan

 

[larcher]

Re: 1963 Elgin Restoration

Hi folks - sorry for the recent radio silence... life has been interfering with the always-more-important boat restoration!!

I've been grinding, sanding, chiseling, vacuuming, and cleaning the garage (...and repeat). After an hour or so of the activities above, I sometimes look at what I've done and wonder if I'm actually accomplishing anything! Sometimes it doesn't seem like it! I'm probably preaching to the choir here though, eh? That's when I really appreciate this forum, because I get to see what the end product might look like -- so thanks to all. :joyous:

Here's what been happening -

Managed to get the transom stripped of wood - it had rotton spots all through it, but much of the port side was still pretty solid, and it gave me some fits getting it lose. I thinkg I used half the tools I own to get it out!

Note some of the various "implements of destruction" - a small sampling of what was used!!! It was a little dicey using a circular saw, but I didn't cut through the outer skin so...

Here's a shot down the starboard side of the channel left by the transom wood.

and the other side. Those edges are all ground off now - see next post.

Here's the thickeness of the transom outer skin. Looks like 1/8" -3/16". Does this sound okay or does it need to be built up any before I continue?

More to come...

 

[larcher]

Re: 1963 Elgin Restoration

I gave the area below the floor a bath -- it was so filthy, I couldn't tell where to grind or sand or what - you may recall from prior postings that it was like a muddy swamp in there after the floor came off.

so, before the bath...

After the bath (and 5 scotch brite pads)...

and then came alot of grinding...

got rid of all the high spots from the areas where fiberglass was wrapped over the original stringers, and rounded off the edges of the trough for the keel.

and cleaned up the edges of the transom.

an overall shot of current state. Seems to be progress over the first image in this post.

 

[larcher]

Re: 1963 Elgin Restoration

So here are some rebuild thoughts and questions....

I'm going to go with epoxy becuase 1) I know how to use it already, 2) I'm concerned about the fumes. The garage/shop is under the master bedroom, so poly would be a bad idea on a number of levels. So I was perusing the US composites site looking at various FB mats and cloths and the way thay have the site organized, it doen't seem like CSM goes with epoxy. Any thoughts?

I'm goin with poplar for the floor stringers. It's light, it's porous and will suck up goodly amounts of epoxy, it's generally pretty straight when you buy it, and I need to shape it a lot to match what was there originally -- basically, a lot of carving with the best sander (will post pix of the ioriginal bevels and such next time. The originals were bevelled a lot to match the curvature of the hull. If there is some disaster waiting for me in the future due to using poplar, please let me know!!!

The transom skin thickness is 18"-3/16" depending on where you measure. Sound okay, or should I build ity up a bit? the wood was 1.5" thick - okay to do the same thickness again?

Any thoughts on raising the height of the transom based on the posts above? Will I have a difficult time finding a 16" shaft motor? I do ewant to find a classic motor, so maybe that's not an issue?

The old florr plywood was 1/2". Does that sound sufficient? I'm going to pour foam beneath.

The plywood form that was used for the rear bulhead/seat support was made of 1/8". Seems pretty thin. Thinking about 1/2" for that as well.

I welcome all comments, criticisms, observations, etc., etc.

Thanks folks!
Lee

 

[jigngrub]

Re: 1963 Elgin Restoration

Note some of the various "implements of destruction" - a small sampling of what was used!!! It was a little dicey using a circular saw, but I didn't cut through the outer skin so...

I'm sorry, but if you haven't cut through the hull this far along... you're not trying hard enough! Everybody cuts through the hull somewhere on their first 'glass resto.:faint2:

I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but you've got some more grinding to do. You need to get down to "good" glass wherever you're going to tab to the hull or bond wood to the hull with an adhesive. This means all of the inside of your transom skin and 6 inches on each side of where a stringer is... don't kill me, I'm just the messanger.

Everything is looking real good though archer, you're going to be building back real soon... and that's the fun part!

Your transom skin thickness looks ok, but a couple layers of 1.5 oz CSM wouldn't hurt it if you want to practice up on your glassing skills before you tackle the tabbing of the stringers and glassing the inside of the transom in.

 

[larcher]

Re: 1963 Elgin Restoration

I'm sorry, but if you haven't cut through the hull this far along... you're not trying hard enough! Everybody cuts through the hull somewhere on their first 'glass resto.:faint2:

I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but you've got some more grinding to do. You need to get down to "ffod" glass wherever you're going to tab to the hull or bond wood to the hull with an adhesive. This means all of the inside of your transom skin and 6 inches on each side of where a stringer is... don't kill me, I'm just the messanger.

Everything is looking real good though archer, you're going to be building back real soon... and that's the fun part!

Your transom skin thickness looks ok, but a couple layers of 1.5 oz CSM wouldn't hurt it if you want to practice up on your glassing skills before you tackle the tabbing of the stringers and glassing the inside of the transom in.

Oh, I cut through the hull alright with the grinder!!! :facepalm: You can put a quarter through the hole - like a piggy bank. Forgot a bout that!!! I also drove a screwdriver through the hull trying to get that transom wood out! Maybe I was just trying to forget!

And yes, I know I have "a bit" more griniding to do, so don't feel bad at all J !

 

[jigngrub]

Re: 1963 Elgin Restoration

So here are some rebuild thoughts and questions....

I'm going to go with epoxy becuase 1) I know how to use it already, 2) I'm concerned about the fumes. The garage/shop is under the master bedroom, so poly would be a bad idea on a number of levels. So I was perusing the US composites site looking at various FB mats and cloths and the way thay have the site organized, it doen't seem like CSM goes with epoxy. Any thoughts?

I'm goin with poplar for the floor stringers. It's light, it's porous and will suck up goodly amounts of epoxy, it's generally pretty straight when you buy it, and I need to shape it a lot to match what was there originally -- basically, a lot of carving with the best sander (will post pix of the ioriginal bevels and such next time. The originals were bevelled a lot to match the curvature of the hull. If there is some disaster waiting for me in the future due to using poplar, please let me know!!!

The transom skin thickness is 18"-3/16" depending on where you measure. Sound okay, or should I build ity up a bit? the wood was 1.5" thick - okay to do the same thickness again?

Any thoughts on raising the height of the transom based on the posts above? Will I have a difficult time finding a 16" shaft motor? I do ewant to find a classic motor, so maybe that's not an issue?

The old florr plywood was 1/2". Does that sound sufficient? I'm going to pour foam beneath.

The plywood form that was used for the rear bulhead/seat support was made of 1/8". Seems pretty thin. Thinking about 1/2" for that as well.

I welcome all comments, criticisms, observations, etc., etc.

Thanks folks!
Lee

I found this on the USComposites site where their epoxy mat was:

Out of Stock*****
Owens Corning has discontinued this item. We are continuing to look for other sources. We have found our brand of 1-1/2oz x 50" (cat# FG-10550) regular chopped strand mat wets out with epoxy very well and could be considered a substitute.
Resin requirements for 1.5 oz mat.

Poplar will probably be ok for the stringers, but plywood will actually be stronger.

A 15" short shaft motor will work on your transom as is.

1/2" plywood for the deck will be fine, especially if you're going to foam the boat. 1/2" will be fine for the rear seat support too.

 

[Woodonglass]

Re: 1963 Elgin Restoration

You don't use CSM with epoxy, only cloth. for stringers I'd recommend 2layers of 1700 Biaxial. I would use plywood for the stringers. Popular is a poor choice. Not ver rot resistant.

 

[River_Lizard]

Re: 1963 Elgin Restoration

larcher,

Here's a shot of my '71 Crestliner splash well, if you could find some aluminum channel to cap the top, you might be able to glass a layer on your top splash well, trim it level and then pull some sealant on the transom then the aluminum cap.

By the way, looking great so far.....I'll be keeping an eye on your updates...good luck with it.

 

[Woodonglass]

Re: 1963 Elgin Restoration

Looking at your pics and how the splashwell and gunwales attach at the back, I see no reason you could not build the transom as a straight on top transom and then utilize a 20" motor.

 

[larcher]

Re: 1963 Elgin Restoration

Yeah wood - looks like I could square it off. It would come to about 19.5" that way. Im thinking it would open up a lot of possibilities for used engines. (I don't have one at the moment).

Have to consider your point about the poplar stringers. Appreciate the input.

 

[jigngrub]

Re: 1963 Elgin Restoration

Since you're going to be encapsulating those poplar stringers in epoxy resin and cloth and your boat will be garage kept I don't think the rot resistance of the poplar is really an issue.

 

[larcher]

Re: 1963 Elgin Restoration

You don't use CSM with epoxy, only cloth. for stringers I'd recommend 2layers of 1700 Biaxial. I would use plywood for the stringers. Popular is a poor choice. Not ver rot resistant.

Hey Wood -
1700 or 1708? Not sure if that was a typo or something I don't know about.

 

[Woodonglass]

Re: 1963 Elgin Restoration

Fiberglass cloth with mat sewn to the back is 1708 meaning a 17 oz cloth with approx .75 oz of CSM sewn to it.
Fiberglass cloth with out the sewn mat is just listed by the oz i.e. 1700 or 17 oz. That's what you want with epoxy, no mat. I don't think USC has it but you can check. I get it from these guys... 10 bucks a yard.

Boat Builder Central - | Marine Epoxy | Fiberglass | Marine Plywood Fiberglass cloth Biaxial (0/90), 17 oz., 50 in. - per yard - Fiberglass wide knitted fabric

 

[larcher]

Re: 1963 Elgin Restoration

Fiberglass cloth with mat sewn to the back is 1708 meaning a 17 oz cloth with approx .75 oz of CSM sewn to it.
Fiberglass cloth with out the sewn mat is just listed by the oz i.e. 1700 or 17 oz. That's what you want with epoxy, no mat. I don't think USC has it but you can check. I get it from these guys... 10 bucks a yard.

Boat Builder Central - | Marine Epoxy | Fiberglass | Marine Plywood Fiberglass cloth Biaxial (0/90), 17 oz., 50 in. - per yard - Fiberglass wide knitted fabric

Perfect - Thank you sir!!!

 

[larcher]

Re: 1963 Elgin Restoration

I've been a little under the weather for a day or two, so no real progress to show. So, I thought I'd show you some old stuff - a few shots of a nearly complete cedar stip sailboat I did with a friend - about 9 years ago.

Enjoy!