1966 Starcraft Holiday Engine Repower

[BWR1953]

It seems to always go that direction when guys think they'll just do one job or another, full on rebuilds happen that way all the time.

Ain't that the truth! :facepalm: :lol:

 

[66Holiday924]

I decided not to remove my z-bar. It felt pretty solidly secure. I am going to treat all of the exposed rivets and seams with Gluvit. I'll make sure to get the z-bar really good. Reading about Gluvit, I read that if you paint over it, the paint should be "epoxy friendly" and you have to paint it if it will be exposed to UV. In my case it won't be exposed to UV, however, I am planning on painting my transom, so the Gluvit will get painted. I was planning on copying Watermann 's paint method, except I will be rolling and tipping instead of spraying. Prime with Rustoleum SE primer, Van Sickle oil based primer, Van Sickle top coat. So, the Gluvit will have the Rustoleum SE Primer directly over it. I can't find anything that says whether it is "epoxy friendly". Does anybody know?

 

[SHSU]

Are you putting the Gluvit outside? I think most people just do it on the interior.

 

[66Holiday924]

Are you putting the Gluvit outside? I think most people just do it on the interior.

It's going inside.

 

[66Holiday924]

I called Van Sickle and Marine Tex (Gluvit manufacturer). I went through my project with Van Sickle's technical support and asked them about painting over the Gluvit, they said they don't know, shouldn't be an issue as the Van Sickle SE primer dries really fast (30 minutes) and whatever is going to happen will happen within that window. They doubt it will affect the Gluvit at all, but if it does, since the drying window is so short the affects would be pretty minimal. Talking to them, they told me to just do a good application of the SE primer, forget the oil based primer (they said it's not necessary), and go straight to the topcoat. On the top coat they said to add their hardener, a pint per gallon, and reduce it with a pint of mineral spirits per gallon, and I'll be good to roll and tip that.

The Self Etching Primer has an acid in it which chemically bonds the primer to the surface of whatever it is applied. I called Marine Tex and asked them about the affect of that on the Gluvit and they didn't know. I pointed out their website specifically says to use an "Epoxy Compatible" paint when painting over the Gluvit. Then I told them in a week of searching I haven't come across a paint that specifically says "Epoxy Compatible". He didn't know what to tell me other than they have their recommendations, it'll probably be fine, but they haven't done any tests to make sure.

I guess some people have bad experiences with using SE primers because the acid can react differently to different paints and finishes and for whatever reason it doesn't always work the way it's supposed to on a painted surface and your paint peels.

So that's my $0.02 about paint. I'm going with Van Sickle's SE Primer, Top Coat w/hardener & reduced. I guess I'll follow their advice and test the primer on some Gluvit just to make sure it's not going to eat it out of my seams and rivets and I'll be taking a chance on the exterior, where I have a mixed (bare metal and painted surface). It's not like I'll have to repaint the whole boat if it doesn't work.

And.. I asked Van Sickle about painting the bilge. They said that paint with the hardener should do really good in the bilge. It should be able to take the heat and not be broken down chemically by the hot oils.

DISCLAIMER: I am not a chemist. I'm just some dude trying to paint his boat.

 

[Watermann]

Gluvit is applied on the inside only, in the seams, keel valley and rivets in the field which all happen to be below deck. Are you wanting to paint the entire inside of the boat over the gluvit? One thing is for sure you have to make sure that epoxy is completely gassed out and cured before adding primer or paint over it. My advice is to not paint anything you don't have to which to me is the bottom of the boat and nothing below deck, with the exception of the bilge.

 

[66Holiday924]

Gluvit is applied on the inside only, in the seams, keel valley and rivets in the field which all happen to be below deck. Are you wanting to paint the entire inside of the boat over the gluvit?

I am applying my Gluvit on the inside. I'm planning on treating all of the rivets that I can with the Gluvit. It's expensive stuff. Once it's mixed you have to use it or lose it, and might as well get as much use as I can out of it. I am definitely going to treat all the seams on my transom and bilge. Then I plan on painting both of those areas, which will include the Z-bar, seams going up the sides of the transom, and the bilge rivets. It's all bare aluminum and will require the SE primer to paint. The etching paint has to go down first, so it will be in direct contact with those rivets in those areas which will be treated by the Gluvit. The instructions for Gluvit say to use an epoxy compatible paint when painting over it. So the debacle is whether or not the SE primer (which has acid in it) is epoxy friendly. The companies do not "guarantee" it, but they both say it "should" be fine to paint the SE Primer over the Gluvit.

 

[SHSU]

One suggestion I have when mixing the Gluvit is to use cheap syringes. I used them so i could make up batches of Gluvit without having to do all of it at one time. Plus the syringes allow you to apply a nice bead along the top of the seams where the sides of the hulls meet together. Makes the Gluvit go a lot further and you can concentrate on the areas you need.

 

[66Holiday924]

One suggestion I have when mixing the Gluvit is to use cheap syringes.

Thanks! That's advice I will follow!

 

[Watermann]

I've had no issues using gluvit and SE primer getting on it, mostly it was over spray but now that I think of it I did shoot it on the transom seams that had gluvit on them when I painted my transoms. Been a few years and no issue on my Chief's painted transom seams.

 

[66Holiday924]

I've had no issues using gluvit and SE primer getting on it, mostly it was over spray but now that I think of it I did shoot it on the transom seams that had gluvit on them when I painted my transoms. Been a few years and no issue on my Chief's painted transom seams.

I think the instructions to use an "epoxy compatible" paint over top of the Gluvit is a saveall instruction. There are all kinds of different paints out there with different chemical make-ups. They can't test them all, so they kind of put it on the consumer. I haven't seen any paint that specifically says "epoxy compatible". I don't think it would eat the Gluvit out of the rivets, that's a little extreme. I am a little worried about the ability of the SE Primer to bond to it though. The SE Primer bonds chemically to metals, I don't know if it works that way for Gluvit, which is a unique epoxy. So I think the worst case scenario would be paint peeling where it's over the Gluvit in a few years. Van Sickle said that the Chemical reaction only occurs during drying, which is like 30 minutes for their SE Primer. So if it doesn't happen during that 30 min., it doesn't happen. Same thing with the exterior of my transom, where I have a mixed (bare metal and painted) surface. They won't guarantee that the SE Primer will "play nice" with the paint that is on there, but "it should". I take this all very serious because I've seen forums on here where people's entire paint jobs peel off within a year... If that happens to me, thankfully it'll just be the transom.

I reference the Chief all the time. You did the chief about 4 years ago, if it's still doing good on it, it should be fine. I'm basically modeling my project after the chief. That's why I'm using the Van Sickle paint and Marine Tex. Those are ideas I definitely "stole" from the chief. There are no books for what we do to these boats. All we have is what is tried and tested. Did you use Van Sickle SE Primer? It looked like you used Rustoleum.

 

[Watermann]

Hey using what works is smart, it saves time and money.

 

[66Holiday924]

I just ordered my paint. It was hard finding a place that sells it. I used their locator, found a place 100 miles away but along a route I travel regularly, submitted an order, they have to submit my order with their order to Van Sickle, and in two weeks I should have my paint... Waalllah!

Watermann as we were saying the rivets on my Z-Bar, transom & bilge seams will be painted after I treat them. I am also going to paint JUST the seams and rivets that I treat elsewhere. I'm doing that just to mark what I treated during this project, so when I do another project down the road, and everything is exposed again, I can see what was already treated.

 

[66Holiday924]

ok, here's a question for iboats, I am going to have a mechanic install my new engine. The installation is going to require tailoring the transom keyhole from the MC1 drive to an Alpha 1 Generation 2. I don't have the facility, tools, or the skill set to install the new engine myself, and cutting up my transom intimidates the hell out of me. So it's going to a shop with the new transom wood installed. It can go one of two ways.

Option 1: It goes with the wood installed, with zero holes in it. Nothing cut, nothing drilled.

Option 2: I cut out the current transom keyhole, and drill the bolt holes that should be the same, and let them tailor it from there.

I think option 2 sets them up for success better than Option 1 does. I'm trying to imagine them completely cutting a new hole in the installed transom wood vs. having to tailor the old hole a little bit. The boat is still at the welder's shop. I told them to leave the gimbal thru-bolt holes alone. I could tell them to weld shut the holes that will be obsolete. What do you guys think?

 

[Watermann]

The 2 bolt holes in the middle are the difference between the MC and A1. I believe the middle 2 have to be moved up some but don't fret over those or worry about them being filled up, the seal is made way out around the key hole and they mean nothing.

As long as the guys know what their doing and not drill the transom wood out first with the holes there and then find out they need new holes. :lol:

I think you're selling yourself short, if you have the abilities to make the transom and cut out the keyhole then why not make 3 tiny cuts in the aluminum to square it off into the bowling pin shape? Anyway I would opt for #2, they'll use a saws all and buzz out the bottom of the keyhole.

 

[SHSU]

I would go along with option 2 as well. You will take more time and be more precise. Makes it easier on them, plus you can pre-seal the holes.

 

[66Holiday924]

Thanks guys. I think Option 2 too, but I called the mechanic just to make sure. I don't know why I didn't think of that the other day. They said Option 2. They say the bottom holes will definitely be relevant for the new setup. So I am going to go ahead and have the other four holes welded shut. I might as well, it' sin the shop having about 30 other holes welded closed anyway. It didn't add much to the bill... That way they won't get over zealous and do like Watermann said and start hacking up my new transom. That eliminates that possibility.
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I think you're selling yourself short, if you have the abilities to make the transom and cut out the keyhole then why not make 3 tiny cuts in the aluminum to square it off into the bowling pin shape? Anyway I would opt for #2, they'll use a saws all and buzz out the bottom of the keyhole.​

Thanks Watermann. I could do the tailoring. It sounds simple. It's a little intimidating but it's not that big of a deal. I would get myself a nice fiberglass template from the skin of the glasser if I were doing it. I just figure why not punt? let them do it. They'll do that work in about 20 minutes and it's their responsibility that way.

Cutting that keyhole, you use a 1-1/2" hole saw, at a 45 deg. angle for the top where the steering goes through?

 

[Watermann]

Yeah you can do it alright and you should do that steering cutout drilling before cutting the keyhole. I don't trust others to do that kind of stuff for me :lol:

 

[66Holiday924]

The welder is done with the boat. It still needs some sanding, but I think they did a hell of a nice job. They sanded some of the holes down on the port side. I'm liking the clean slate! :rockon:

 

[SHSU]

Looking good!!!!