1968 Johnson 9.5 Water Pump Problem.. HELP PLEASE

[NorthMsRiverRat]

Hey guys and gals. New to the forum but have been using you're expertise to get me through a few repairs i was not so sure about. I know my way around any other small motor but an outboard is totally foreign to me. Here's my problem, I have a '68 Johnnyrude 9.5 horse and I'm trying to replace my water pump impeller. I have the 4 bolts off holding the lower unit on, was able to drop the LU about a half inch which gave me access (VERY limited access) to the coupler with 2 bolts. I have read on these forums that fiddling with the shifter might allow the LU to drop a little further making it easier to get to the coupler, no luck here. I also read that taking one bolt out of the coupler should free the LU, again, no luck. And to make matters worse, I had the bright idea to remove one bolt anyway and dropped it down in the LU! I also disconnected the shifter rod on the top of the motor thinking maybe it was catching something up there only allowing it to drop a certain amount, once again, no luck. So my question to you guys is what am I doing wrong or what in the world is holding this thing on? and once I get it off, how the heck do you get it back together if all I have to work with is a half inch gap?!

Please let me know if I need to be more clear, I can tell you every detail if need be but was trying to keep it short and sweet.

Many thanks to you in advance. I'm sure someone on here can tell me something

 

[nwcove]

Re: 1968 Johnson 9.5 Water Pump Problem.. HELP PLEASE

i do believe the half inch gap is what you get! the driveshaft could be stuck in the crank or the shift rod could be just stuck a bit in the coupler. a few taps/raps on the anti-vent plate with a rubber mallet might free it up.

 

[Joe Reeves]

Re: 1968 Johnson 9.5 Water Pump Problem.. HELP PLEASE

Slowly turn the propeller so that the shifter dog engages the gear. That allows the unit to drop lower... also have the shift lever set so that it allows the unit to drop.

Tinkering with the linkages at the powerhead area will only cause you grief unless you're well acquainted with the design of that engine.

If you have removed one of the 3/8" hex bolts from the brass shift connector, the lower unit should drop away with very little force.

If the lower unit still cannot be pried away, possibly the driveshaft is jammed in the powerhead's crankshaft splines... lets hope not.

 

[NorthMsRiverRat]

Re: 1968 Johnson 9.5 Water Pump Problem.. HELP PLEASE

Haven't had a chance to mess with it this evening, I'll try the hammer method first in the morning. Tried pulling it by hand and it wouldn't budge but I know sometimes a hammer has the magic touch.. Forgive my ignorance but what happens if the driveshaft is caught in the crank? Major repair I'm guessing?

And please correct me if I'm wrong, like I said outboards are Greek to me, but if the driveshaft is caught in the crank splines wouldn't that seize the prop?

 

[Joe Reeves]

Re: 1968 Johnson 9.5 Water Pump Problem.. HELP PLEASE

A driveshaft frozen within the crankshaft splines would have no effect on the propeller due to the lower unit's shift setup.

Should the driveshaft be jammed within the crankshaft splines, usually the lower unit can still be removed by pulling the driveshaft thru the water pump impeller housing... obviously you would need to replace the water pump assy.

Then, if you're lucky, you can apply vice grips on a non bearing surface of the driveshaft and beat the vice grips with a good size hammer in a downward angle to hopefully loosen it from the crankshaft.

If the driveshaft still doesn't loosen, you are faced with removing the starboard casing, then removing the engine from the port casing, after which you need to remove the powerhead from the long exhaust housing. At this point you can lock the driveshaft in a vice and carefully apply a wood block and hammer to the block to free the driveshaft.... or whatever you may be able to dream up... a hellava job!

Good luck... Let us know what you find.

 

[NorthMsRiverRat]

Re: 1968 Johnson 9.5 Water Pump Problem.. HELP PLEASE

Wow, definitely not what I wanted to hear. Thank you guys for the input by the way! I'm still not understanding how this happened if that's what it is.. It has been sitting up for over ten years, I got it out of my grand-in-laws attic and put it in a barrel. Actually ran pretty decent considering. That was 2 days ago. And now the driveshaft is possibly jammed? Did it happen when I dropped the LU? That's the only thing that makes sense to me

 

[racerone]

Re: 1968 Johnson 9.5 Water Pump Problem.. HELP PLEASE

Rust gets in where the driveshaft goes into the crankshaft.---Jams them together.-It is a process that happens over time.-----Did not happen in 2 days !!

 

[NorthMsRiverRat]

Re: 1968 Johnson 9.5 Water Pump Problem.. HELP PLEASE

With a few strategic placements of a hammerhead I was able to get the LU off and impeller replaced, thanks for the help boys! Don't forget about me yet though, re-installation comes later this evening haha

 

[NorthMsRiverRat]

Re: 1968 Johnson 9.5 Water Pump Problem.. HELP PLEASE

Well I knew this was going to happen.. Got my impeller changed and housing reassembled, now the LU won't fit back into place. From what I can tell the driveshaft is catching about 4-6 inches into the LU. Tried turning driveshaft and prop to align splines but driveshaft isn't even making it that far.. Shined a light down in LU and nothing looks out of place.. What am I missing? I'm stumped

 

[racerone]

Re: 1968 Johnson 9.5 Water Pump Problem.. HELP PLEASE

Lower unit should be " lined up " when you start to put it back up.---You can not put it up at an angle.-----Never had a problem myself.

 

[nwcove]

Re: 1968 Johnson 9.5 Water Pump Problem.. HELP PLEASE

Flip her upside down. But does that model use an oring just below the splines? Has it been replaced? Did you lightly grease the splines? ( no grease on the end of the ds tho!!).

 

[NorthMsRiverRat]

Re: 1968 Johnson 9.5 Water Pump Problem.. HELP PLEASE

Racerone-- that's what I'm thinking too, can't figure out why iit isn't.

nwcove-- I have it flipped but still no luck. Do you mean an o-ring on the driveshaft? If so, then no there is no place for one. I didn't grease the splines but I don't think it's a lubrication issue, something inside the LU is catching the DS. It stops in exactly the same place every time. My half inch gap that I couldn't open has turned into a 3 inch gap that I can't close!

There is also a mysterious small pin in the driveshaft, thought that was catching on something, but after some tinkering and fiddling decided that wasn't the case.

I'm at a loss, I don't know what else to try because in my mind there's really nothing else TO try, it's just sliding the driveshaft right back down to where it came from. It shouldn't be this complicated haha.

Something else I wanted to ask you guys is the prop that came off this motor is 8 1/8 x 8 and it is beat to hell and back. I have a '63 5.5horse motor with a new 8 x 7 prop. Can I use the 8x7 on this motor without bad side effects?

 

[nwcove]

Re: 1968 Johnson 9.5 Water Pump Problem.. HELP PLEASE

the grease on the splines and oring (if so equipped) isnt for ease of assembly, its for ease of disassembly and to protect the powerhead. my guess is your having problems with your aim. ( used to have the same problem when i was a young fella....now im a sniper! )

 

[NorthMsRiverRat]

Re: 1968 Johnson 9.5 Water Pump Problem.. HELP PLEASE

Ha well aim could definitely be the problem.. I worked on this thing all morning with problem after problem and by the time it was time to put it all back together I had lost all finesse I previously had. I'll try again tomorrow and see what I can do. Thank you guys for your help

 

[NorthMsRiverRat]

Re: 1968 Johnson 9.5 Water Pump Problem.. HELP PLEASE

Messed with it a little more this evening, still can't get it to fit back into place, not sure if I've just gotten frustrated and am trying to force it or if there is actually something catching it, I dunno. From what I can tell swapping the prop out for something that close to the original size prop won't change performance much, you guys are a lot smarter than me though so you tell me.

Any other ideas what might be holding this driveshaft?

 

[racerone]

Re: 1968 Johnson 9.5 Water Pump Problem.. HELP PLEASE

The only pin in the driveshaft is the pin to drive the water pump.------If that is not where it is supposed to be you are going to have problems.----So before you move ahead , post a picture of this " mysterious pin "-------------You are sure this is a 9.5 HP and not a 6 hp.---The 6 hp has a pin to drive the mechanical seal.

 

[NorthMsRiverRat]

Re: 1968 Johnson 9.5 Water Pump Problem.. HELP PLEASE

Yeah this is a 9 1/2. Wasn't sure what the pin was at first but it has to be for the water pump. Still confused though, I thought for sure that pin was catching something but it doesn't make it far enough to hit anything. It's hard to describe on here but when I go to slide the LU up the driveshaft, it feels like there is a plug down in the LU preventing the shaft from going any further.. Tried a few light taps with a mallet and nothing it's like I've hit a wall.

 

[Joe Reeves]

Re: 1968 Johnson 9.5 Water Pump Problem.. HELP PLEASE

If there is a pit going thru the top portion of that driveshaft, it must align with a slot up at the powerhead. Either have someone turn the flywheel slowly as you apply slight pressure upwards OR have the lower unit in gear and turn the prop slowly.

What is the model number of that engine?

 

[NorthMsRiverRat]

Re: 1968 Johnson 9.5 Water Pump Problem.. HELP PLEASE

Joe reeves--- i had the same thought but I tried both methods today and neither got me anywhere. Model # MQ-14E

 

[racerone]

Re: 1968 Johnson 9.5 Water Pump Problem.. HELP PLEASE

The pin to drive the water pump should be out of sight and inside the waterpump housing.-----No way that it can interfere with assembly here.----------You will need to post pictures.