1969 Johnson 55hp Hydroelectric no forward movement

Aedin123

Cadet
Joined
Jul 19, 2008
Messages
14
Ok to clarify my issue after some testing...

Engine starts and runs fine. When i push the throttle forward the rps increase however the prop does not engage forward except for a monor spin.

I removed the prop and checked it for a spun prop. I saw no evidence of that (to my knowlege) so I tested the engine with the prop off. When the tghrottle is pushed into reverse the shaft spins strong and at the speed I am throttleing to, when pushed into forward position the shaft does spin in the proper direction, but with no strength. I took a channel lock wrapped in a rag and was actually able to stop the motion of the shaft when throttled forward. I wasa not able to stop the shaft when in reverse. I can feel a slight "clicking" when holding the shaft and it is throttled in forward.

I have taken the throttle mechanism, apart and checked to make sure the hydroelectric switch was being properly engaged and gopt the same results as before.

Any ideas would be greatly appreciated!!
 

Joe Reeves

Supreme Mariner
Joined
Feb 24, 2002
Messages
13,262
Re: 1969 Johnson 55hp Hydroelectric no forward movement

The default shift position on that engine when the engine is NOT RUNNING is that the unit would be in forward gear (prop locked up into the shifter dog). Is it?
 

tashasdaddy

Honorary Moderator Emeritus
Joined
Nov 11, 2005
Messages
51,019
Re: 1969 Johnson 55hp Hydroelectric no forward movement

are you using premium blend type C lower unit lube in the lower. if not you have the wrong lube in it. only available at a dealer. or you still have power to one of the wires to the lower solenoids. it automatically reverts to forward when the power is off. unplug both wires going to the lower unit, it is does not go to forward you have a major problem.
 

Aedin123

Cadet
Joined
Jul 19, 2008
Messages
14
Re: 1969 Johnson 55hp Hydroelectric no forward movement

I will test that and update you! thank you so much. As for the lube, I would believe this to be the original lubricanrts as the boat was purchased in 1970 and used only once that year and winterized and stored since..
 

tashasdaddy

Honorary Moderator Emeritus
Joined
Nov 11, 2005
Messages
51,019
Re: 1969 Johnson 55hp Hydroelectric no forward movement

winterizing includes a lower unit oil change, may be the wrong oil.
 

Dhadley

Supreme Mariner
Joined
Feb 4, 2001
Messages
16,978
Re: 1969 Johnson 55hp Hydroelectric no forward movement

If it had the wrong oil, or no oil, it would not shift out of forward. Once he tells us if it's in gear when the motor is not running we'll know where to look.
 

Aedin123

Cadet
Joined
Jul 19, 2008
Messages
14
Re: 1969 Johnson 55hp Hydroelectric no forward movement

I drained the current lower unit oil and put in premium blend type c from the evinrude dealer.

I get the same results from all tests. In reverse the shaft spins fine with correct amount of power, however in forward i can grip the shat and cease it from moving and the shaft emits some kind of clicking noise.

If i remove both wires to the cellenoid to the lower unit the prop does spin forward just as if i used the throttle bar to do it, but with the same result that it doesn treally have anty power behind the spin, and a simple grip withg a channel lock wrapped in a rag can stop the shaft from moving :(
 

Aedin123

Cadet
Joined
Jul 19, 2008
Messages
14
Re: 1969 Johnson 55hp Hydroelectric no forward movement

If it had the wrong oil, or no oil, it would not shift out of forward. Once he tells us if it's in gear when the motor is not running we'll know where to look.

How do I know if it is in gear when the motor is not running?

It does shift forward and reverse fine, it is just that forward has no power to it and does not move the boat when in the water.
 

Dhadley

Supreme Mariner
Joined
Feb 4, 2001
Messages
16,978
Re: 1969 Johnson 55hp Hydroelectric no forward movement

With the motor off the prop shaft should only move a short distance (by hand) before it stops aginst the gear. If it spins freely then it's not in gear. If you disconnected both wires with the motor running it should be in forward.

The propshaft spinning clockwise very slowly (out of the water) in neutral is common. If the propshaft spins freely whether the motor is running or not may indicate the plunger is not going all the way forward in the pump.
 

Aedin123

Cadet
Joined
Jul 19, 2008
Messages
14
Re: 1969 Johnson 55hp Hydroelectric no forward movement

With the motor off the prop shaft should only move a short distance (by hand) before it stops aginst the gear. If it spins freely then it's not in gear. If you disconnected both wires with the motor running it should be in forward.

The propshaft spinning clockwise very slowly (out of the water) in neutral is common. If the propshaft spins freely whether the motor is running or not may indicate the plunger is not going all the way forward in the pump.

It is in gear with the motor off. I can move the prop shat clockwise a little bit but the it hits the gear. i can force it to turn further and by doing that is churns the pistons.

Is there something that the shaft attatches to that could be slipping? I am puzzled as to why the shaft reverses fine and I am unable to stop it by hand yet in forwards, whereas it looks like it is spinning fine, when decent pressure is applied the shaft can be immobilized.
 

Dhadley

Supreme Mariner
Joined
Feb 4, 2001
Messages
16,978
Re: 1969 Johnson 55hp Hydroelectric no forward movement

If it locks up completely while the motor is off, and it sounds like it does, then the plunger is moving all the way forward. It is curious that if you disconnect both wires to the solenoids you get the same results. The clicking is probably the clue. It's almost as if the plunger isn't going all the way forward.

Joe - any ideas?
 

JT!

Petty Officer 1st Class
Joined
May 19, 2008
Messages
260
Re: 1969 Johnson 55hp Hydroelectric no forward movement

i am the furthest one here from being a pro but here goes:

i think something is wrong with your forward gear. by default it should go forwards, but yours is weak; possibly it cant return to it fully engaged position.

you mention light ticking sounds, possibly its the gear barely making contact.

IMO i would tear it down before doing too much damage.​
 

Joe Reeves

Supreme Mariner
Joined
Feb 24, 2002
Messages
13,262
Re: 1969 Johnson 55hp Hydroelectric no forward movement

The two wires that lead to the lower unit at the powerhead.

In forward gear, there should be absolutely no voltage present at either of those wires when in forward gear. Check that and let us know what you find.
 

jay_merrill

Vice Admiral
Joined
Dec 5, 2007
Messages
5,653
Re: 1969 Johnson 55hp Hydroelectric no forward movement

For Joe & Dhadley ... I've never taken one of these gearcases apart but am now looking at a parts diagram on shop.evinrude.com. There is a spring in the prop shaft that appears to push the plunger forward. Since this motor has been sitting for almost 39 years, I am wondering if it could be weak or stuck. If so, could that be a source of the problem?


PS: Her's what the OMC manual for my 1972 65hp has to say about shifting problems:

A: Control Box and Electrical Connections
Control box and/or powerhead connections not coupled, corroded or coupled incorrectly
20 ampre fuse
Faulty electric control switch
Open circuit (broken wires)
Faulty key switch
Shift and rectifier diodes damaged

B. Lower Unit
Incorrect Lubricant
Oil pump screens plugged
Faulty solenoids or adjustment
Damaged shift cable
Oil pump worn (low oil level)
Shifter dog or spring damaged

After reading this, clogged oil pump screens seems to be a possibility.
 

Aedin123

Cadet
Joined
Jul 19, 2008
Messages
14
Re: 1969 Johnson 55hp Hydroelectric no forward movement

The two wires that lead to the lower unit at the powerhead.

In forward gear, there should be absolutely no voltage present at either of those wires when in forward gear. Check that and let us know what you find.

Ok I need to clarify what happens when I use the motor...

When I push the throttle forward from the neutral position to the forward position I do not hear nor feel the tell tale, "clunk" that it is engagin into gear at all. However the prop does spin and with increased rpms it does increase in speed. However that is only in a no load situation. In the water the prop barely moves at all in the forward position. If I put the engine in reverse I hear an audible "clunk" and reverse is strong and all good.


If i am in nuetral and disconnect both wires to the cellanoid the prop will spin but again with no real force....

WHat part should I look at next? Any info about this is greatly greatly appreciated!
 

freddyray21

Commander
Joined
Jun 10, 2006
Messages
2,460
Re: 1969 Johnson 55hp Hydroelectric no forward movement

sounds like the solenoid spring is weak would be my guess. not enough pressure to hold it in forward. I would not continue to run it like that even testing it. The clicking is the gears trying to mesh and when they can't they can chip or even break.
 

Joe Reeves

Supreme Mariner
Joined
Feb 24, 2002
Messages
13,262
Re: 1969 Johnson 55hp Hydroelectric no forward movement

Aedin123..... From what you've said, and as I understand it......

With the engine not running, the lower unit is in forward gear as it should be.

You have disconnected the two wires that would apply voltage to the lower unit AT THE POWERHEAD AREA.

You start the engine with those wires still disconnected and find that the lower unit is no longer in forward gear.

Is this correct?
 

Aedin123

Cadet
Joined
Jul 19, 2008
Messages
14
Re: 1969 Johnson 55hp Hydroelectric no forward movement

Aedin123..... From what you've said, and as I understand it......

With the engine not running, the lower unit is in forward gear as it should be.

You have disconnected the two wires that would apply voltage to the lower unit AT THE POWERHEAD AREA.

You start the engine with those wires still disconnected and find that the lower unit is no longer in forward gear.

Is this correct?

Some is correct, some is not correct. Sorry for any confusion but I will try to clarify.

If the engine is not running then yes it is in gear and I am unable to rotate the prop more than a little bit by hand.

You have disconnected the two wires that would apply voltage to the lower unit AT THE POWERHEAD AREA. (also correct)

However when i start the engine, or if the engine is running when i remove or replace those wires, the prop does start to turn clockwise as it shoudl, but very weekly. it is definately getting some power as this is moving faster than it would at idle.. however it just isnt fully engaging in forward...

I hope this clarifyed my issue a little bit. I will try all your guys suggestions in the morning!
 

Aedin123

Cadet
Joined
Jul 19, 2008
Messages
14
Re: 1969 Johnson 55hp Hydroelectric no forward movement

For Joe & Dhadley ... I've never taken one of these gearcases apart but am now looking at a parts diagram on shop.evinrude.com. There is a spring in the prop shaft that appears to push the plunger forward. Since this motor has been sitting for almost 39 years, I am wondering if it could be weak or stuck. If so, could that be a source of the problem?


PS: Her's what the OMC manual for my 1972 65hp has to say about shifting problems:

A: Control Box and Electrical Connections
Control box and/or powerhead connections not coupled, corroded or coupled incorrectly
20 ampre fuse
Faulty electric control switch
Open circuit (broken wires)
Faulty key switch
Shift and rectifier diodes damaged

B. Lower Unit
Incorrect Lubricant
Oil pump screens plugged
Faulty solenoids or adjustment
Damaged shift cable
Oil pump worn (low oil level)
Shifter dog or spring damaged

After reading this, clogged oil pump screens seems to be a possibility.



Would oil (very black and pretty thick) dripping from the prop shat when the prop is removed be an indicatyor of an oil pump issue? I am in the process orreplacing the selnoid and since i hae it pulled apart I could easily replace that too?
 

jay_merrill

Vice Admiral
Joined
Dec 5, 2007
Messages
5,653
Re: 1969 Johnson 55hp Hydroelectric no forward movement

I'm going to defer to Joe & DHadley on this because they have much more experience in the matter than I do.

That said, I guess my instinct as a fomer aircraft mechanic, and someone who has worked on a variety of engines/vehicles (including many outboards) over the years, is to try to think through problems logically. Where I start is with the fact that the motor was purchased, run for one season, and then winterized and stored for many years, until you began to use it. Assuming that there was not an incident during that one season of use, which could lead to suspicion of mechanical damage, it is logical to think in terms of problems that are time related, ie: what things could be affected by a long period of inactivity?

One of the things that sometimes happens with these motors, is that the wiring that runs from the lower cowling to the gearbox (internal midsection), becomes brittle with age. This tends to cause problems with shifting and can be a significant problem because the part is no longer available. The advice that you received to disconnect the wiring at the connectors located on the port, rear side of the motor is good, because it allows you to include or dismiss that potential problem. Given what I have read so far, I don't think your problem is electrical.

As you may understand from this discussion, your motor defaults to forward when there are no electrical and hydraulic inputs to shift to neutral or reverse. Electrically, what happens is that there is no signal for forward, signal to the upper/neutral solenoid to select neutral, and signal to both the upper and lower solenoids to select reverse. From a mechanical/hydraulic viewpoint, there is a spring in the prop shaft which exerts pressure on a piston, forcing it forward into the clutch dog. As I understand this gearbox, it is that spring that causes the motor to remain in forward, unless hyrdaulic pressure is exerted to move it backwards to the neutral or reverse positions.

So, what could be happening? In my first post, and the "PS" that I added, I went from suspecting the spring to wondering about the screens. At this point, I don't think it is the spring, because (and as DHadley pointed out) the motor is locking in forward when it is not running. This means the spring is exerting the proper pressure and the piston is able to move fully forward. I am now thinking something else, because I am learning as I research this problem. My manual shows a diagram of how these gearboxes work (figure 6.5, if anyone has the 1972 65hp book), which is helpfull because it depicts the function of the ball valves in the pump. In short, they are held in the closed position, or allowed to open, by the solenoids. While your problem could be related to a need to adjust the solenoids, I wouldn't think that would be the problem in a motor that was only used for a few months.

What does make sense to me, and I think may well be your problem, is that 38 years of inactivity has caused the gear lube to thicken and "gum up." I'm not sure what the lube would do if it were in a sealed container (with absolutely no air in it) for all that time, but I wouldn't think it would take much air at all, to cause a change over so many years. If my guess is right, I can easily see one or both of the ball valves sticking a bit, resulting in improper oil flow. Very thick, gummy oil might also prevent the pump from operating properly.

Even though I have written "a book" here, as I have a tendency to do, I think the bottom line is that DHadley was on to something, when he suggested that the plunger (piston) isn't moving as it should be. I think he is right, but am not sure of exactly why that is so.

At this point, if I were in your shoes, I would think in terms of cleaning the gearcase out. I don't know if this can be done without taking it apart to clean the individual components. If it is possible to run some sort of solvent in the gearcase briefly to remove deposits, you might have a simple "fix" available. If this shouldn't be done, you may have to take the gearbox apart, so that you can clean and inspect each part. Hopefully, one of the guys will know which is the proper way to clean the parts. If this is not the case, you can always consult your local OMC/BRP mechanics.

My personal opinion is that you should not run this motor further, until you fix the problem. I believe that the light "ticking" sound that you are hearing is the clutch dog making light contact with the inner portion of the forward gear. You may not have caused any damage to the dog and/or gear at this point, but if you keep testing the motor you may.
 
Top