1971 17' Invader Tri-Hull Restoration, The Madness Begins

[Mud Puppy]

Re: 1971 17' Invader Tri-Hull Restoration, The Madness Begins

Good news on the Blazer . Hopefully new belts and some exhaust work will let ya escape the soccer mom ride .
Hang in there spring is on the way !

I hope so SP! Spring cannot happen soon enough.

Nice to hear that you got a break in the weather . . . not much of a break where I am. Probably going to have to wait until April to do any glassing or painting

TP, I feel for ya! We had snow the other morning, suppose to have freezing rain/ snow starting tonight at 2400 hrs. Hope the Wintery mix stays down Tri-lakes way. They say it may be concentrated down there.

If it is warm enough tomorrow, I have to work on my grandson's ride. It's a F150 and it's not running at all and the radio isn't working either. Battery is good, so I don't know what may be wrong with it, but he was complaining to his mom today and she had to post on FB.

If I get a chance once it's up on jackstands I can tell more. A Poppy's work is never done.

 

[Mud Puppy]

Re: 1971 17' Invader Tri-Hull Restoration, The Madness Begins

So we woke up to more snow today and taking life easy. I need it after getting out and filling the pantry and cabinets up. Everyone here was preparing for "Snowapocalypse 2014" so all of the stores were nuts yesterday. Wore my old posterior out dealing with the madness. I waited inline at one checkout for over 20 minutes and it was the shorter line too.

Today all of the streets are void of traffic and emptiness fills the once crowded parking lots; funny thing is we may have gotten a 1/4" all together. :facepalm:

So, there may be the storm coming in from the Pacific Coast to deal with.

The pickup trouble-shooting for the grandson may have to wait till after I get board with the race in Phoenix.

The Captain made some awesome cheese omelets filled with jalapenos and purple onions. I smothered mine in a layer of jalapenos and salsa (the kind not from New York City) and covered in a layer of jalapenos. I then added some hot sauce I got for Christmas made from Red and Green Habanero peppers and a pepper called Datil. Not sure what that one is, but it was good. I would have garnished this with jalapenos, but we ran out. :grumpy:

I did finally get completely read on tallcanadian's 1978 MFG Gypsy rebuild just as I did on Decker's aircraft carrier. I am still slowly making my way through seven other friends' threads. I will be there awhile with them (sphelps, GT1M, glnbnz, tpenfield, jbcurt00, Woodonglass, and zool). You guys leave me speechless.

One of the things I have been considering is repairing my lower unit instead of going through the mess of finding another one that may be in the same sad shape. I know (from what I have read here) the the 165 is not as strong as the later models, but I am working under a budget and would like to get her wet this summer. I can always go back and upgrade later in a summer or two.

The sterndrive was left up and didn't seem to be much of an issue when it was shedded. Problem was it was left up when it was removed from storage an no one noticed or even thought about it:


Water got into the lower unit and popped a section out when it froze:


I was kinda unsure about the bearings and the pump anyway, so my intention was to rebuild it before splash. It's been a while since I have lain any aluminum rod down, but I use to be pretty good at it.

Has anyone any experience with such?

One of the guys I work with said clean it thoroughly and Atacs it back together, Atacs being a super aviation grade of JB Weld/ PC7.

The stuff is good, I just don't know if I'm comfortable with epoxy over welding.

I'm open to suggestions!

 

[tallcanadian]

Re: 1971 17' Invader Tri-Hull Restoration, The Madness Begins

I have a big ''scar'' on my lower unit. It's been welded but I'm not sure if it's been hit or froze. It's only been run by me on muffs but so far, no issues. It looks like it's been welded but I have no expertise to share with you. I'm sure it wouldn't cost a lot to have a professional do it. I personally would not attempt it, but then again, what do I know?

 

[Mud Puppy]

Re: 1971 17' Invader Tri-Hull Restoration, The Madness Begins

I worked a long, long time ago in an industrial setting and they would pull me from the floor and send me back to the shop to weld up AL gearboxes while the "welder" would set with his feet up and watch. I was and electrician/ electronics tech. and the lead tech. They would pull the #3 and send him to replace the #2 who would replace me. After the welding, I would return to find the #2 in the same place I was and hadn't done anything to troubleshoot the machine I was on.

We had Miller TIG HighFreq machines and inert gas. All you had to do was set the gas and press the foot-feed and start pushing rod. A fan in the summer wasn't so good, it would push the gas off of the weld.

I'm not so confident in a DC machine and flux covered rod. I know it works, just not a lot of experience. If ground out and done in stages, there shouldn't be a problem with heat and I sure the bearings are shot anyway.

Steel and water just don't mix and I don't want to be having fun and have a bearing seize and ruin my lower.

 

[Decker83]

Re: 1971 17' Invader Tri-Hull Restoration, The Madness Begins

First I would like to thank you for all the great statements you have made about my thread.. I'm a old backyard junkie that is trying to make a go of it..
I have been reading your thread and have enjoyed it very much.

I know you can weld the lower unit. There is a shop in Dallas Tx that does it all the time..
If you try to do it the main thing is to clean it inside and out.. You must remove all the oil inside.. If there is any contamination it will make the weld fail.. If I was doing it I would v grove around the crack and grind away all the paint on the outside and try to soak the
inside with acetone for several hours before welding..

 

[Decker83]

Re: 1971 17' Invader Tri-Hull Restoration, The Madness Begins

I have used the flux rod and it is a whole new ball game. I am not sure I would even try to weld it that way..
If you do you will need to heat the aluminum up before starting to weld..

 

[Mud Puppy]

Re: 1971 17' Invader Tri-Hull Restoration, The Madness Begins

First I would like to thank you for all the great statements you have made about my thread.. I'm a old backyard junkie that is trying to make a go of it..
I have been reading your thread and have enjoyed it very much.

Thank You Sir!
I have come to love all my new-found friends for their expertise an knowledge! :hail: You all are my Heroes and I am proud to have all of you checking in on me and my progress and humbled by your presence, each and everyone of you!

I couldn't imagine doing it any other way. We do have a 55 gallon barrel of acetone, but we also have a steam jenny as well. Cleaning it shouldn't be an issue and I know even a bad weld there shouldn't be an issue. My wife's cousin was woried about internal pressure, but I don't see that as a problem, it is just a gearbox.

 

[Mud Puppy]

Re: 1971 17' Invader Tri-Hull Restoration, The Madness Begins

I have used the flux rod and it is a whole new ball game. I am not sure I would even try to weld it that way..
If you do you will need to heat the aluminum up before starting to weld..

I started out using gas and moved onto burning rod way back in AG Mechanics. Burned a lot of low-hydrogen rod working on dozier main idlers, about 50lbs per idler. When I took on the maintenance job, they wanted to know if I could MIG and TIG, so I said sure. Neither one was difficult, but remind you, this was all back in the '80s and it was all pretty new back then.

And I agree with the heating the AL first. Kinda like cast and I have done some nickle rod on that and kept it hot after the weld so it wouldn't pop. I think the secret is to remove any slag that may come to the surface by lightly grinding before a second pass too.

 

[Mud Puppy]

Re: 1971 17' Invader Tri-Hull Restoration, The Madness Begins

WOW! More Snow :smow:! On top of sleet we got Sunday! Yeah! I think I'm moving to Canada :canada:! TC, you may have a new neighbor! Tired of this weather and cold :cold:! I think it has been warmer there. I know it's been warmer in Alaska more days than it has been colder.

So another sterndrive question. I found that the trailer Limit Switch wiring was junk when I pulled the gimble mount off of the boat.

Thee only picture I have doesn't show where it comes out very well, but the black electrical tape wrapped wires (minus any wiring insulation) is shown on the left side of the below photo:


I haven't separated the gimbal from the housing yet to look further into it.


Does anyone have any experience with these?

I'm hoping that there are terminals on the switch like some of the later trim position switches since I haven't found them anywhere yet.

I really don't guess I need it, since all it does is stop the pump when it is all the way up, but it may just save the pump and pump motor some strain and damage.


I've got my work cut out for me with the 2 intermediate bolts on the gimbal housing. They are busted off just a 1/2" of bolt showing. I have soaked them down it Blaster and a mixture of Acetone and Tranny fluid, applied heat, walked away and came back when they were cool to the touch.

Did this several times and I still haven't been able to budge them. I have welded nuts on to bolts before and been able to extract them, but I'm kinda scared I might cause some Hydrogen embrittlement so I may just cut them off flush, center-find the bolts and try to easy out the bolts; may even find myself drilling the bolts out and re-tapping the threads.

If this fails, what are the Pros and Cons about Helicoiling the threads?

 

[Mud Puppy]

Re: 1971 17' Invader Tri-Hull Restoration, The Madness Begins

I have come to love all my new-found friends for their expertise an knowledge! :hail: You all are my Heroes and I am proud to have all of you checking in on me and my progress and humbled by your presence, each and everyone of you!

First of all I would like to say that the above statement was from the heart to all of my friends I have meet here on iboats. I am sincere and I genuinely meant every word of it. I sat here patently watching, reading, learning, for months before I posted my rebuild, but I have recently fallen into a trap of sorts and I want to apologize to anyone I may have offended as it was never my intent to breach the trust and friendships I have here.

I won't go into any get detail, just wanted everyone to know I never meant to overstep my bounds. I am the type of personality that wants to help and share what little I know. I have gained so much here, I was just trying to pay back in the only way I know how.

I have spent so much of my life in such a technical atmosphere, I sometimes forget how to just talk to people and I know sometimes I may come off as a jerk and sometimes I just need to calm down and take a breath.

I also work in a shop that is loaded with toys which, on the weekends, I get to play with and I am very, very fortunate to be able to have this luxury of their use. I don't want any of you to think me braggadocios (I actually have very little I can call my own).

I have a big ''scar'' on my lower unit. It's been welded but I'm not sure if it's been hit or froze. It's only been run by me on muffs but so far, no issues. It looks like it's been welded but I have no expertise to share with you. I'm sure it wouldn't cost a lot to have a professional do it. I personally would not attempt it, but then again, what do I know?

Tall, not having the equipment I am use to using and being over 20 years and being very rusty, I too will end up probably having it done, but part of the blood that coarses through my veins is Scottish, and I just hate paying for anything, when I use to be able to do it.

First I would like to thank you for all the great statements you have made about my thread.. I'm a old backyard junkie that is trying to make a go of it..
I have been reading your thread and have enjoyed it very much.

Decker, I too am an old backyard junkie caught up in a very technical life, and I sometimes would just love to hang out with my junk and dream!

I not wealthy by any means or stretch of the imagination, but am rich beyond measure with the family and friends I have including y'all.

I know if I ever get to the point where I can retire or just even travel, y'all better be prepared for a visit, some boatin', and some BBQ!

Rocky

 

[Mud Puppy]

Re: 1971 17' Invader Tri-Hull Restoration, The Madness Begins

I took a better photo of the top of the sterndrive today

So another sterndrive question. I found that the trailer Limit Switch wiring was junk when I pulled the gimble mount off of the boat.

Thee only picture I have doesn't show where it comes out very well, but the black electrical tape wrapped wires (minus any wiring insulation) is shown on the left side of the below photo:


I haven't separated the gimbal from the housing yet to look further into it.


Does anyone have any experience with these?

/QUOTE]

The photo below is the top of the gimbal housing lay on a bench:

The side of the gimbal look like this:


and with the gimbal rotated, this is what the pin looks like:


​

I read somewhere that these pins need to be drilled out.

Does anyone know if this is correct?​

 

[Mud Puppy]

Re: 1971 17' Invader Tri-Hull Restoration, The Madness Begins

I've got my work cut out for me with the 2 intermediate bolts on the gimbal housing. They are busted off just a 1/2" of bolt showing. I have soaked them down it Blaster and a mixture of Acetone and Tranny fluid, applied heat, walked away and came back when they were cool to the touch.

Did this several times and I still haven't been able to budge them. I have welded nuts on to bolts before and been able to extract them, but I'm kinda scared I might cause some Hydrogen embrittlement so I may just cut them off flush, center-find the bolts and try to easy out the bolts; may even find myself drilling the bolts out and re-tapping the threads.

If this fails, what are the Pros and Cons about Helicoiling the threads?

These are what is left of the bolts in the housing I was talking about:




I may be over thinking the whole thing, I tend to do that a lot!

 

[jbcurt00]

Re: 1971 17' Invader Tri-Hull Restoration, The Madness Begins

Sorry I can't help answer your question about helicoils, never used 1 nor had 1 installed in a threaded boss on anything I've owned, and never worked on an I/O. I did stay at a hotel last night, but it wasn't a Holiday Inn Express :sleeping:

Seems to be a slow few days in the forums, so just give someone that can help some time to find there way here.

No response tomorrow & just

bump

the thread Thurs am.....

 

[Mud Puppy]

Re: 1971 17' Invader Tri-Hull Restoration, The Madness Begins

Sorry I can't help answer your question about helicoils, never used 1 nor had 1 installed in a threaded boss on anything I've owned, and never worked on an I/O. I did stay at a hotel last night, but it wasn't a Holiday Inn Express :sleeping:

Seems to be a slow few days in the forums, so just give someone that can help some time to find there way here.

No response tomorrow & just the thread Thurs am.....

Thanks JB! More of the winter blues catching up with me, plus I need a break from Military Tankers.

I may be trying to solve something with a process which isn't marine approved, but I'm also a cheapskate when it comes to spending money unless it is for the pleasure itself and not the means to get me to the pleasure if you know what I mean.

P.S. I stay at the one that leaves the light on. I'm not scared of the dark at all, but I do love the rates, or I sleep in the truck if I'm by myself that is.

 

[GT1000000]

Re: 1971 17' Invader Tri-Hull Restoration, The Madness Begins

As far as helicoils...they work great, done right...used them in many automotive applications, even where enormous forces are at work.
Can't help with the drive queries...
Just a suggestion...if you don't get a good answer to your drive here, just post up a thread here...
Mercruiser I/O & Inboard Engines & Outdrives
The gurus there will guide you down the right path...
Happy Humpday!

 

[Mud Puppy]

Re: 1971 17' Invader Tri-Hull Restoration, The Madness Begins

Just a suggestion...if you don't get a good answer to your drive here, just post up a thread here...
Mercruiser I/O & Inboard Engines & Outdrives
The gurus there will guide you down the right path...
Happy Humpday!

Thanks GT, I may try that.

 

[Without a care]

Re: 1971 17' Invader Tri-Hull Restoration, The Madness Begins

If its cool I'm going to tag along. Thanks for being so diligent with all the pictures, great job so far!

 

[Mud Puppy]

Re: 1971 17' Invader Tri-Hull Restoration, The Madness Begins

If its cool I'm going to tag along. Thanks for being so diligent with all the pictures, great job so far!

Welcome Aboard WOAC! :welcome: Hope I can get back to it soon. This winter is just going on TOO long! The Demo is only part of it. I am almost ready to start going back together with her. I can't wait.

Most of the snow and remnants of the sleet below should be gone tomorrow (I hope), but then either the wind is going to have to blow to dry things up or we are gonna need a toad strangler to pack things down.

I think I could get the boat out, but I know I could never get it backed back in without a wrecker.

 

[Daniel1947]

Re: 1971 17' Invader Tri-Hull Restoration, The Madness Begins

Helicoils???? If done properly, helicoils will be as strong as the original threads, and in some cases may actually end up stronger. Absolutely 100% positive about it. Biggest problem I have seen in my years of using them is not getting the hole drilled out straight and/or the threads not cut straight. Never...never...ever go larger than the original bolt. If the bolt is 3/8"NC...use the helicoil kit for 3/8"NC thread. You also follow the original torgue specifications for the assembly when using helicoils. I have extensive experience with them, hope I have helped. Dan

 

[Mud Puppy]

Re: 1971 17' Invader Tri-Hull Restoration, The Madness Begins

Helicoils???? If done properly, helicoils will be as strong as the original threads, and in some cases may actually end up stronger. Absolutely 100% positive about it. Biggest problem I have seen in my years of using them is not getting the hole drilled out straight and/or the threads not cut straight. Never...never...ever go larger than the original bolt. If the bolt is 3/8"NC...use the helicoil kit for 3/8"NC thread. You also follow the original torgue specifications for the assembly when using helicoils. I have extensive experience with them, hope I have helped. Dan

Thanks Daniel for the reply. I too have used them from agricultural equipment, automobile engines, and industrial applications, I just wasn't real sure about any issues below the water line when on plain for hours at a time; what would be the outcome say 5 years down the road. Just more of me over thinking things. Thought maybe they would react cathodic and thus they would deteriorate exponentially. :nerd: :ranger: :stupid:

I took GT1M's advise and posted it on the Mercruiser I/O & Inboard Engines & Outdrives Forum and they basically said the same. Sometimes I need loads of reassurance on CR@P that is pretty straight forward.

With that, if I should pull threads, I know I can put them in and save having to find another gimbal housing and SINK EVEN MORE MONEY into her. :greedy_dollars:

When and IF I get to "Splash" her it will take a cool "C" note at the pump or 1.5 "C" at the marina just to fuel her and I can just hear the lecture from the Captain if I spend another 5 or 6 in the mount. :drama: :doh: