1972 Formula 233 Project

[MrDyce]

Re: 1972 Formula 233 Project

I agree with you 100% Greenbush. It's a fact that to much is never enough. It's just the cost involved to be honest.

 

[azmav]

Re: 1972 Formula 233 Project

Beautiful work Dyce! I am in Phoenix and so I am with you on the heat and dry conditions. Although we are about to hit our second 100+ day today with a topper at 105-6 in the next couple days. :-( I know you are about 10 degrees cooler down there. Is the plan to keep this boat or sell it? For me on my first, I finally had to start telling myself that I am learning on this one, but for you, this is a third boat. My gut says by that point I would be wanting to do a boat that had everything I wanted. If you plan on keeping it, as it is a third boat then resale considerations are not really a worry. But, maybe waiting a month or two or three to finish it would be worthwhile to save up for the power you need. Way you are rocking this out, would be tempting to ignore the power for the sake of getting on the lake. Plus you mentioned ocean use, do you need the extra power there?

 

[MrDyce]

Re: 1972 Formula 233 Project

Beautiful work Dyce! I am in Phoenix and so I am with you on the heat and dry conditions. Although we are about to hit our second 100+ day today with a topper at 105-6 in the next couple days. :-( I know you are about 10 degrees cooler down there. Is the plan to keep this boat or sell it? For me on my first, I finally had to start telling myself that I am learning on this one, but for you, this is a third boat. My gut says by that point I would be wanting to do a boat that had everything I wanted. If you plan on keeping it, as it is a third boat then resale considerations are not really a worry. But, maybe waiting a month or two or three to finish it would be worthwhile to save up for the power you need. Way you are rocking this out, would be tempting to ignore the power for the sake of getting on the lake. Plus you mentioned ocean use, do you need the extra power there?

Hey there azmav,
As you know the heat has yet to begin. HAHA! You are correct. This boat is a keeper. I have somewhat of a connection to it. The year and the make. Lots of memories on and old formula fishing with friends and family. Fell in love with it as a kid. I think my choice on motor with this one is slowly leaning towards reliability and economy (strange terms to use when talking about boats) when in use. More of a " look at me and my old cool boat that I redid all by myself kind of boat" I know that this thing won't be on the water this year and I'm fine with that. Im taking my time to make sure everything I do is the closest thing to perfect as it can be. The wife has actually looked at my posts and agreed with the larger power plant but Im still on the fence. I do have the approval for a center console in the future which will then become my man boat. (Fishing and diving in mexico and san diego) So you can see I'm just kinda trying to build this one out to be my good times boat if you know what I mean. Some fishing and weekending on the lake for the most part. Yeah with the ocean use Ive found that its not the power you have but the experience. Rarely can you go wot. Its more of a reliability thing. Most folks think your nuts leaving the bay without some type of redundancy twin motors of some type or at the very least a good kicker. (I tend to agree)

 

[MrDyce]

Sorry I haven't made any updates. Its been so darn hot here in tucson. Ive been doing a little fishing here and there with the wife in our old town canoe. Anything to cool off and a chance to catch fish… HaHa. I will do a little more work to the 233 in the coming weeks and catch you all up to speed.

 

[Mark72233]

Hi john I was following your posts with much interest since I also have a 1972 Thunderbird Formula 233. Mine has twin Mercruiser 165hp. My father was the second owner and prior to him passing away he gave it to me. It has sat for 12 years and I finally have enough money to start the restoration project. This will be my first and I am looking forward to all the headaches. Keep giving updates.

 

[MrDyce]

Hi john I was following your posts with much interest since I also have a 1972 Thunderbird Formula 233. Mine has twin Mercruiser 165hp. My father was the second owner and prior to him passing away he gave it to me. It has sat for 12 years and I finally have enough money to start the restoration project. This will be my first and I am looking forward to all the headaches. Keep giving updates.

Hey there Mark, I promise not to let the project and the thread die. It's just been so hot here in Tucson and now with the storms rolling through everyday it makes it kinda rough to get any work done. I've been doing a little here and there and getting some parts together. Also been running some numbers and lay out for all of my electronics.( tends to take a little time) what part of the country are you in and how far along are you?

 

[Mark72233]

I haven't started on it yet. Doing my researching and planning. Should be able to start on it next month. She is in pretty bad shape. I live in Panama City, Florida.

 

[Mark72233]

Hi john I have a few question about your 233. Friday I moved my 233 to my house after sitting for 12 years. I am in the process of striping the cap and removing the enigines. The tank is already out along with the foam. I plan on removing the 112 bolts holding the cap and some how taking it off. First ?. I only see foam in the fuel tank bay did yours have any foam else where. Second ?. I see you cut your deck out in pieces. On mine it has two separate pieces or modules. The front cabin floor and the larger rear deck floor just like yours. I would like to keep these intact. Do you think it's possible to remove these things whole. If it is possible I know it will be a lot of work and both are going to be very heavy. It looks like the sides are glues or bonded somehow to the stern and sides. If I can cut along these edges and come up with a way to lift it out is there any type of bond under the deck to the stringers. I would show you pics but still can't get photobucket to work.

 

[500dollar744ti]

Re: 1972 Formula 233 Project

So Im finding myself pondering again over what type of power to put in this soon (I Hope) to be awesome boat. If I had the funds (and the wifes approval) I would have planned on twin 250s or 300 outboards. Thats not in the cards for this one. Trying to keep formula number one an i/o and keep the feel of an old classic boat with a little modern twist here and there. Not looking to break any speed records but would like to cruise around 25-30 and would be happy with a wot of 45-55 on flat silky windless water. LOL. I have the old tired 302 and the merc 888 outdrive. It could easily be rebuilt. Im thinking maybe a punched out 351 windsor and an alpha 1. Any comments? Suggestions? Pros? Cons? Im open to ideas but just keep in mind I'm not crapping out gold bars every morning….

You really have two cheap options, stick with ford power and re-use almost everything. The mustang 5.0 roller motors are good for 225hp, you'll need every bit of that. Find a good long block and marinize it, install in your boat. It might cost you a little power using the 2bbl carb but it will sure be a noticeable increase.

I did this with my truck. It's a 1983 f150 that had a very tired marine 302 in it, yes someone had installed a boat motor, complete with slanted intake for inboard use. It was a low output, low power, low everything turd. I use the truck to tow my boat and a year ago the 302 lost oil pressure, started knocking. I didn't have time/money to do a bigger motor or modify but it desperately needed more power. 1990 mustang 302 high output fit the bill. I put all the stuff from the old motor on the mustang engine and swapped it in, WOW what a difference. It pulls my boat with so much less effort now and will spin the big 35" tires if I want it to.

The Pros: 40hp+ more power, less money/time/hassle.
Cons are: still have to find ford marine parts if needed in the future, less power than chevy 350.

Chevy 350 is also a good option but will require more parts swapping and time to make it happen. Not sure how the mounts are done but for all I know you may have to change your engine mount position for a 350.

I think you can expect 45mph WOT (on a good day) with a 302 high output and a nice stainless prop.

You could also build a nice 302 using the engine you already have. Do something like a 331 stroker, you can purchase the kit for about $800 and build a hot engine for 300hp.

 

[MrDyce]

Hi john I have a few question about your 233. Friday I moved my 233 to my house after sitting for 12 years. I am in the process of striping the cap and removing the enigines. The tank is already out along with the foam. I plan on removing the 112 bolts holding the cap and some how taking it off. First ?. I only see foam in the fuel tank bay did yours have any foam else where. Second ?. I see you cut your deck out in pieces. On mine it has two separate pieces or modules. The front cabin floor and the larger rear deck floor just like yours. I would like to keep these intact. Do you think it's possible to remove these things whole. If it is possible I know it will be a lot of work and both are going to be very heavy. It looks like the sides are glues or bonded somehow to the stern and sides. If I can cut along these edges and come up with a way to lift it out is there any type of bond under the deck to the stringers. I would show you pics but still can't get photobucket to work.

Hey there, sorry for the slow reply. I've seen the cabin decks pulled out in one piece but don't have to do it one this project. My rear deck were soft so I opted to pull everything and I will just redo with glass and rejelcoat when done. Both the cabin and rear deck are fiberglassed in so it may be a slow process of pulling it out whole. I only had foam in my gas tank area also. I do plan on adding foam where I can for floatation and sound. I did notice when I was pulling the deck that there was a thick bead of resin on top of my stringers. I hope that helps.

 

[archbuilder]

Nice boat, looking forward to seeing your progress! one other thing to throw out there, a 383 stroker, lots of torque, and the low cost of Chevy small block parts. If you are keeping it long term, biting the bullet and putting what you want in it is always the best way to go....painful today, but you'll be happy later on.

 

[archbuilder]

Nice boat, looking forward to seeing your progress! one other thing to throw out there, a 383 stroker, lots of torque, and the low cost of Chevy small block parts. If you are keeping it long term, biting the bullet and putting what you want in it is always the best way to go....painful today, but you'll be happy later on.

 

[archbuilder]

Nice boat, looking forward to seeing your progress! one other thing to throw out there, a 383 stroker, lots of torque, and the low cost of Chevy small block parts. If you are keeping it long term, biting the bullet and putting what you want in it is always the best way to go....painful today, but you'll be happy later on.

 

[MrDyce]

Nice boat, looking forward to seeing your progress! one other thing to throw out there, a 383 stroker, lots of torque, and the low cost of Chevy small block parts. If you are keeping it long term, biting the bullet and putting what you want in it is always the best way to go....painful today, but you'll be happy later on.

I'm thinking about a 351 Windsor. I have a local shop here willing to do a new build for me with install for a smoking deal. I won't be ready for it till jan or fen next year. But I'm still open to ideas. As I said before I'm not looking to win any races, I'm looking for reliability.

 

[500dollar744ti]

Even though a 351W is a small block Ford, don't forget to take into consideration that it's very different than a 302. 351W has a taller block deck, the heads sit higher and make a wider Vee, that makes a different exhaust setup necessary. The intake valley is wider and may not work properly with your throttle and shifter setup. The carb will sit at a different position as well and you're going to need a properly matched 4bbl for it.

The engine is physically larger than a 302 because of the deck height, you want to make sure it will physically fit into your boat when fully outfitted with manifolds, risers, carb.

These are all considerations I made when I wanted to put a 351w in my truck. Even with all the automotive components available, I decided against it because of the changes I would have to make. When it came down to swapping the engine, the mustang 302HO made more power than a 351w and similar torque. I just installed that using all my old components and I got the massive power increase I needed.

 

[MrDyce]

Even though a 351W is a small block Ford, don't forget to take into consideration that it's very different than a 302. 351W has a taller block deck, the heads sit higher and make a wider Vee, that makes a different exhaust setup necessary. The intake valley is wider and may not work properly with your throttle and shifter setup. The carb will sit at a different position as well and you're going to need a properly matched 4bbl for it.

The engine is physically larger than a 302 because of the deck height, you want to make sure it will physically fit into your boat when fully outfitted with manifolds, risers, carb.

These are all considerations I made when I wanted to put a 351w in my truck. Even with all the automotive components available, I decided against it because of the changes I would have to make. When it came down to swapping the engine, the mustang 302HO made more power than a 351w and similar torque. I just installed that using all my old components and I got the massive power increase I needed.

Hey There 500,

I think I should be good on the fitment. I still haven't put the engine mount blocking back in. I have the stingers back in for the most part but leaving that for the last step after I replace the decks. Pretty easy to get to with everything else in. Ive been doing a little here and there as the weather permits. Still hot as heck here with the daily storms so its a slow roll with progress. Thinking I can shift into overdrive by the end of sept. Still want to take it slow as to not miss anything. Sometimes I just step out and stare at the boat for an hour or two. Wife is starting to think Im losing it. LOL Keep the ideas coming guys. I need all the input I can get before I hit the point of no return.