1976 25 hp Points question

[69 Alumacraft]

Re: 1976 25 hp Points question

Still having trouble, everything is new, points, condensers, coils, wires. I have adjusted points and got decent spark at first and then lose it ? There is a ground wire attached to arm plate that I have not replaced, other than that I am clueless. Points have been adjusted from .015 to .025 and I put back flywheel each time and tested for spark, it seemed like I could get spark at first and then after a few more pulls on the starter I lose it. Cleaning brand new points w/ laquer thinner each time, arm plate is clean, using ohm tester to set points, still cannot seem to get consistent spark. I have achieved 1/4 plus blue spark and then w/ out adjusting or moving anything I lose it. Any advice appreciated, special thanks to Oldman570 who has been invaluable.

 

[ultra353]

Re: 1976 25 hp Points question

Still sounds like a ground problem. Replace that grd wire and see what happens, and clean all contact areas. Check the grd wire from block to fuel connector .

 

[69 Alumacraft]

Re: 1976 25 hp Points question

Will do and post back, so there are two ground wires one from the armature plate to the block and one from the block to the fuel connection. I will try cleaning up both and if that does not work I will replace both. Does the guage of these wires have to match exactly or can I use the marine wire I have instead of ordering it?

 

[AlTn]

Re: 1976 25 hp Points question

sooooo...points, condensers, driver coil, wires to external coils, external coils, plug wires, terminal ends and boots for both cylinders are all new? post # 97...

 

[69 Alumacraft]

Re: 1976 25 hp Points question

One external coil was not replaced by me but by previous owner and it looks exactly like the new one I put on and tested out on ohm meter. Another note on this is that I have had both cylinders running just not at the same time, at one point I had them both going and the motor ran great and then it dropped down to one again. All the other parts you mentioned are brand new.

 

[AlTn]

Re: 1976 25 hp Points question

the plug wire and terminal end to this coil purchased by the prior owner have been replaced by you?... I ask because it seems with this motor you can't take anything for granted...were it mine, I'd repalce them and autopsy the old terminal end and the last inch or so of the plug wire that it's attached to as well as the last inch or so of the coil end. If you've already done this check the coil end of that plug wire to see if it's still snug. Just sharing thoughts as I know your frustration level must be high < understatement >

 

[69 Alumacraft]

Re: 1976 25 hp Points question

These external coils have the plug wires "built in" and it is snug, it looks to be appoxied in so I can not mess with the coil end but I could reattach the end w/ the spark plug boot. The thing that confuses me is I have gotten that cylinder to produce good spark and fire with the motor running. When I bought the motor one of the external coils was obviously older and cracked and that cylinder would not fire and the other did, so I replaced the older cracked one and kept the "good" one, I thought that would solve my problem but no. I will give it a try after I replace the two ground wires if that does not solve my issue.

 

[kfa4303]

Re: 1976 25 hp Points question

HI alumacraft. I'm not sure if it's even possible on your model, but why not try to convert it back to the old, universal style magneto system? You might need a new flywheel and armature plate, but that's relatively easy to find and would save you a lot of headaches trying to track down some electrical gremlin in your current electronic ignition.

 

[69 Alumacraft]

Re: 1976 25 hp Points question

HI alumacraft. I'm not sure if it's even possible on your model, but why not try to convert it back to the old, universal style magneto system? You might need a new flywheel and armature plate, but that's relatively easy to find and would save you a lot of headaches trying to track down some electrical gremlin in your current electronic ignition.

I would love to I own a 69 25 hp Rude sportster and it took me about 45 minutes to rebuild ignition and it lights up my basement w/ 1/2 blue spark and runs great. I think I can use my armature plate, I just need a couple of driver coils, plug wire and a 1 magnet flywheel. Believe me if I spend anytime on this stupidly designed model w/ out success that is the plan. This design was only made for few years, apparently I know why.

 

[69 Alumacraft]

Re: 1976 25 hp Points question

Still sounds like a ground problem. Replace that grd wire and see what happens, and clean all contact areas. Check the grd wire from block to fuel connector .

tried that and no noticeable improvement, but thanks anyway, any other advice, besides getting into sailing?

 

[boobie]

Re: 1976 25 hp Points question

I've read this whole post and have to ask a really dumb question which I know I'll be chastized for. But, how about the magnets in the flywheel being bad or weak ??

 

[69 Alumacraft]

Re: 1976 25 hp Points question

It pulls a screwdriver blade in from an inch or so away on both sides.

 

[ultra353]

Re: 1976 25 hp Points question

Where are you located, anywhere nere SE michigan? I`ve got my `75 evinrude 25hp ( same great ignition system) tore apart right now and if your near we`ll start swapping parts to see if the problem can be tracked down.

 

[69 Alumacraft]

Re: 1976 25 hp Points question

I am in Massachusetts. I think I am done with this system and plan to get a hold of a different flywheel and alter my armature plate and go with the different system.

 

[kfa4303]

Re: 1976 25 hp Points question

I think you're on the right track Alumacraft. At a certain point, it's easier to just start fresh, especially when it comes to electronics where less is usually more. '75 is pretty close to the years they first converted to the electronic ignitions, so hopefully the flywheels and armature plates from models in the preceding years will fit. Keep us posted. This would/will make a good thread for other folks who may want to do a similar retro fit. Good luck!

 

[69 Alumacraft]

Re: 1976 25 hp Points question

Well thanks for the moral support. If anyone out there has a pre 75 1 magnet flywheel they will part with please let me know.

 

[nphilbro]

Re: 1976 25 hp Points question

Please don't flame me if I'm off here, but when I had a spark that followed 1/2 the coils that were obviously charged from the same circuit I finally replaced the trigger and it took care of the problem. Granted, the igntion in my motor was toast from start to finish but after I finally got spark on all four I went back through each piece I changed out to get to the root of each problem. My 4 cyl had spark on 2 and 4 and I couldn't get anything on 1 and 3. I replaced the flywheel and stator with same result. I pulled the trigger off my parts motor and voila, solid spark everywhere.

I don't know if the trigger on this motor is even similar to that of a '77 four cylinder. Just one more observation on a solution that worked for me.

Good luck.

 

[jmendoza]

Re: 1976 25 hp Points question

Don't give up, it's just being difficult, but the best thing is that when you do resolve this problem, you will have become a self taught expert, and that knowledge is invaluable if you plan on keeping this engine, or messing with others like it. If you just start over and swap everything out for a different system from a later year and the problem persists, what will you do then? And even if the afore mentioned trick does work, you will never know what really was the root cause of the problem, all you know is that a shotgun approach works, and nothing else.

Some of the clues are that whatever it is, it's seems to be common to both cylinders so look at the components that both ignitions share. The ground wire is suspect because it flexes alot and could be broken under the insulation, and is common to both ignition circuits. Is there a kill wire as well?

 

[oldman570]

Re: 1976 25 hp Points question

Just me again, still haven't got that motor running? I've got a compleate setup for the points + flywheel , and a newer electronic system that will fit your needs if you so wish to try them out. Just give me a call and we can work something out if you want. Have you metered the coil grds. to the block yet to make sure they are good? You sure have had a bad time with it so far , just wish I lived closer so I could help find the problem with it.

Give a call if need be,

Oldman570:facepalm:

 

[69 Alumacraft]

Re: 1976 25 hp Points question

So, I tried a crazy idea someone posted about , putting two "exciter coils" under the flywheel instead of one and because there is room for two I used the original one and the new one and big surprise it killed the little spark I did have. But in my mad scientist mind I decided to leave the old one in in the "empty" spot and take out the new one and see if that changed anything. Guess what. 7/16 bright blue spark on both cylinders!!So I'm not sure if my new driver/ exciter coil was no good or I damaged it by taking it out and putting it back so many times or the other vacant spot on the flywheel somehow is the better spot for the coil, don't really care but I am finally getting an honest to goodness spark on both every time. So thanks for the encouragement jmendoza, and oldman570 and the rest of the iboats geniuses. Any comments/ theories about why switching the position of the driver coil worked would be appreciated.