1977 merc 1150 water pump question

[o'hill]

Hello, I have a 1977 model 1150 inline 6 cyl motor that I am trying to get going, it has sat up a year or maybe a few years. I pulled the lower unit off to check the impeller (while I'm waiting on a new starter to come in). The impeller is soft and pliable and not cracked so unless advise would be to put in a new one, then I'll probably put this one back in. My question is about the rubber ring that is a seal for the top of the water pump housing. Shouldn't it go inside the plastic housing top in between the plastic top housing and the metal housing insert that the impeller runs inside of? It was sitting on top of the plastic housing. There is a groove in the plastic housing that looks like the seal should fit into. I can either pull the metal part out and put the seal in or probably just push the seal (flat rubber ring) into the housing without removing the metal part. I pulled on the metal part a little and it won't budge so if the seal is to go inside then I will probably have to just feed it in there from the top side. SO does this go inside or does it sit on top. and if it does go inside, I wonder why it was just sitting on top (over the shaft but not inside the water pump housing) ? The lower unit was installed tight and did not appear to have been removed anytime lately.
thanks for any help
rob

 

[Bigabe82]

Re: 1977 merc 1150 water pump question

On the impeller, if there are any groves on the outer tips of the fins(anything but straight) replace it. On the rubber ring placement, Find your model/serial number for the outdrive and motor, then look up your parts diagram at boats.net. It will show correct placement of the ring.

 

[o'hill]

Re: 1977 merc 1150 water pump question

Ok thanks, all of those diagrams are so small I can't tell. Impeller doesn't have any grooves but the fins are curved from having run in clockwise rotation. I may just go ahead and get a new one.
thanks

 

[Bigabe82]

Re: 1977 merc 1150 water pump question

Usually you can zoom from your browser bar or just click the images and they expand. Whats your serial/model#'s?

 

[Quad82]

Re: 1977 merc 1150 water pump question

My 78 has the thick rubber ring on the shaft above the pump top housing. Are you sure that there is a ring/grove on the shaft for the ring to sit in? Mine looks like it has one too. But it's just a shinny wear spot on the shaft. Look closer.
If you have the lower unit off, change the impeller. It's cheap insurance.

 

[o'hill]

Re: 1977 merc 1150 water pump question

model 1150 serial 4735457 1977 115hp ELPT
thanks

 

[o'hill]

Re: 1977 merc 1150 water pump question

No not a groove on the shaft, a groove or a place for a seal or something in the top plastic housing. The thick rubber ring is above the housing like you say, but there is a place in the plastic housing for a seal or something. Maybe a seal is missing. It would go above the metal impeller housing and below the plastic housing...inside at top of housing. Is there supposed to be a seal in there? If so I probably should buy a complete water pump rebuild kit.
thanks

 

[Chris1956]

Re: 1977 merc 1150 water pump question

That is not a Johnnyrude waterpump. From the waterpump repair kit, install a new Oring on waterpump base along with the base gasket. Lube driveshaft and oring and seat the pump base. Careful not to tear the driveshaft seal. Now install the stainless steel wearplate, with the proper gasket on each side. Now install the impeller over the driveshaft. Don't forget the drive key. Lube up the impeller with some dishsoap or oil. Make sure the ss pump insert in cover is not scratched up. if so, replace it. Now install the pump cover over the driveshaft, and turn the driveshaft CW while pushing down on pump cover. Install bolts and self-tapping screw. Install rubber slinger over driveshaft and seat it on pump cover. Grease splines on driveshaft and shift shaft. Make sure gearcase is in neutral and control is in neutral.

Stick driveshaft into midsection, motor tilted all the way up. Turn flywheel with hand until driveshaft splines align. Now watch for shift shaft splines to align. You may need to move upper shift shaft to make it so. Stick nut on one of the studs to hold gearcase on and wiggle it into place tightening nuts with fingers only until all the way seated.

 

[o'hill]

Re: 1977 merc 1150 water pump question

Ok, thanks for the step by step! I really appreciate it. I think I can get it now.
rob

 

[o'hill]

Re: 1977 merc 1150 water pump question

Ok thanks to everybody's help here I got it running. I only let it run for a minute a couple opf times since I didn't see any water peeing out and not sure how long it's supposed to take before that happens. I have already put in the new water pump kit (only because the motor had been sitting and I figured I should) and put everything back together very carefully (impeller key, etc). The only think I can thing of is that I was having such a fun time getting the shift shaft lined up so it would work when I shifted that I may have not got the water tube back in the hole. I took the lower unit on and off about 10 times working to get the shift shaft lined up right, so PROBABLY didn't pay enough attention to the water tube. I put muffs on and turned the water hose half on and started the engine it and water comes out only at the lower unit. First off I don't know much about boat motors, so if I connect the muffs over the fins/openings/slots down there and turn the hose on is it supposed to pee right away? or does the motor need to be running and warmed up even though the hose from the house has pressure? Does it have to warm up and open the thermostat before it pees? I took the pee hose off the back to see if stopped up and no it's not. This motor sat for a year or two before I cranked it, so is it possible I need to change the thermostat before I go any further, or I guess I'll drop the lower unit now and check the water pickup tube.
>>>>>I'm all smiles because I at least know now that it runs, so need to fix this problem next. As far as things I've done to the engine so far...Checked compression..125 on top cylinder, 120 on all others but one and it's right around 115, they all hold up compression for the 5 or 10 minutes I left pumped up. New EMS 49-0070 starter around $70 and Mallory 9-48311 water pump kit with upper water pump housing $25. Changed the lower unit gear oil $5.00 or so no water in oil but oil wss black and din't look like it had been changed since forever, bought a new primer bulb $7.00 fuel line $10 for 6 feet, new Merc type fitting $9.00 for a 6 gallon plastic tank I already had on hand. I know most all of the parts I bought are cheap generic, but wasn't sure the engine was any good or would even run so bought the cheapest parts I could find...not normally how I do things...I normally buy the best parts for my vehicles....or try to at least <<<<<
Anyway any ideas or suggestions with the water problem would be appreciated.
Thanks

 

[o'hill]

Re: 1977 merc 1150 water pump question

Ok thanks to everybody's help here I got it running. I only let it run for a minute a couple opf times since I didn't see any water peeing out and not sure how long it's supposed to take before that happens. I have already put in the new water pump kit (only because the motor had been sitting and I figured I should) and put everything back together very carefully (impeller key, etc). The only think I can thing of is that I was having such a fun time getting the shift shaft lined up so it would work when I shifted that I may have not got the water tube back in the hole. I took the lower unit on and off about 10 times working to get the shift shaft lined up right, so PROBABLY didn't pay enough attention to the water tube. I put muffs on and turned the water hose half on and started the engine it and water comes out only at the lower unit. First off I don't know much about boat motors, so if I connect the muffs over the fins/openings/slots down there and turn the hose on is it supposed to pee right away? or does the motor need to be running and warmed up even though the hose from the house has pressure? Does it have to warm up and open the thermostat before it pees? I took the pee hose off the back to see if stopped up and no it's not. This motor sat for a year or two before I cranked it, so is it possible I need to change the thermostat before I go any further, or I guess I'll drop the lower unit now and check the water pickup tube.
>>>>>I'm all smiles because I at least know now that it runs, so need to fix this problem next. As far as things I've done to the engine so far...Checked compression..125 on top cylinder, 120 on all others but one and it's right around 115, they all hold up compression for the 5 or 10 minutes I left pumped up. New EMS 49-0070 starter around $70 and Mallory 9-48311 water pump kit with upper water pump housing $25. Changed the lower unit gear oil $5.00 or so no water in oil but oil wss black and din't look like it had been changed since forever, bought a new primer bulb $7.00 fuel line $10 for 6 feet, new Merc type fitting $9.00 for a 6 gallon plastic tank I already had on hand. I know most all of the parts I bought are cheap generic, but wasn't sure the engine was any good or would even run so bought the cheapest parts I could find...not normally how I do things...I normally buy the best parts for my vehicles....or try to at least <<<<<
Anyway any ideas or suggestions with the water problem would be appreciated.
Thanks

 

[o'hill]

Re: 1977 merc 1150 water pump question

ok, I got the water problem fixed. I removed the lower unit again and took my time putting it back on making sure I got the water tube in the hole and now it pees like it should. Getting the shift shaft and the water tube all lined up right reaching through a 1/2" gap is a pain. I finally shifted the control box into forward (all the way forward) and turned the shift shaft all the way clockwise by hand (from the top looking down) and put it together and shifter works right in forward, reverse and neutral. I never could get it to work right when putting back together with control box in neutral. Anyway so now that that's fixed.... next problem is carb spitting fuel out of the jets on the side. Someone says maybe gummed up / varnished floats and slides, so that's today's project.... first I'll clean them and go from there. Next issue after that is figuring out the cold start levers and choke. Cranks fine, but with a cold start I have to move the shift lever all the way forward and then push the cold start lever all the way forward then move the shift lever back into neutral (this hold the butterfly's open to wide open throttle and then I push the key in and that chokes it and it starts right up and I immediately pull the cold start lever back so it wont rev wide open. Once it runs a few minutes then I can start it with just the choke and cold start lever without having to push the shift lever into wide open throttle. I figure once I get the carbs all cleaned up and maybe carb kits then I won't have to have it in wide open throttle to crank it.
I am learning more about boat motors in the last month than all the rest of my life combined and I was raised on the MS and Yazoo rivers with my folks always using old jalopy motors that somehow just always ran. My uncle still has a big wooden flat bottom boat he built in the 60's that has been on the river at least every week since he built it. The motor on it is a huge old johnson and still runs like a bat outta hell. I guess the key to keeping a motor going is to fix it then use it REGULARLY so it doesn't sit up. This one that I have had sat up for a few years when I got it.
So...... back to the fun!! Anybody want to give me some pointers on the carbs and taking them off or anything I need to know please chime in! I need all the help I can get. I also want to say if it weren't for this forum I would still be looking at the motor and scratching my head. I dove in and am slowly getting it up and going! : )

 

[SleekWolf]

Re: 1977 merc 1150 water pump question

Man, this is like watching myself from a parallel universe. I was wondering about the peeing also. I haven't gotten mine to pee yet, but I've only had it running for a few seconds. Rob, when you turn the water on does it come out anywhere else before you start the motor? Mine doesn't and I'm wondering if it should.

 

[SleekWolf]

Re: 1977 merc 1150 water pump question

Rob, you can take the covers off the bowls without removing the carbs and clean them. I'd try that firsts if you don't want to spend the money right away on rebuild kits. You'll have to remove your starter again though to get to the bolts on the covers. I took mine off and there was crap holding the needles open. I already had the rebuild kits so I went ahead and rebuilt the needle/seat assemblies. Really that's all there is to rebuild on these carbs. That might be all you need to do. Might be a good idea to replace the floats while you have it open just for future insurance if you don't mind spending the money. Rebuild kits don't come with new floats

 

[o'hill]

Re: 1977 merc 1150 water pump question

Hey again! No... no water comes out anywhere except what's leaking around the muffs. I start it and takes about 5 or 10 seconds to start peeing. First time took about 15 or 20 seconds and maybe 30 seconds. Then after that only 5 or so seconds if that. Anyway to answer...no... no water from anywhere. Doesn't pee with just water pressure from the hose... (I was wondering earlier) I don't know anything and not trying to tell you something I'm sure you already know, but don't run it over a minute if that long without it peeing. These things get hot quick even with water running through....pees hot water with steam if the hose / faucet is not turned up about a quarter. too high will blow the muffs back so not too high and not too low. If you get it peeing and it pees smoking water then turn it up a little. (may be too much info but all of this is stuff I was wondering just yesterday) .I also blew compressed air into the pee hose inlet on back of the head to hear air coming from lower unit. First I removed the hose from the head and blew it out and then looked to make sure nothing like mud or dirt in the hose connector going into the head and it was clear so I blew air through it and could hear air coming from lower unit. I did all that first before I took it back down to make sure the water tube was in the hole in top of water pump. I was just making sure nothing was stopped up with dirt dobbers.... they are bad around here.
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Thanks for the info on the carbs. I went out to start on it earlier and 100 in the shade....I decided to wait till later afternoon/evening to get back on it. How did your carbs look inside when you took them apart? Pretty grubby?Did the gaskets tear up right off or did they stay stuck... wondering what to expect when I tear them down.
After taking the lower unit on and off about 10 times, taking the starter back off to get to the carbs will be a piece of cake : ) Can't wait to look inside the carbs....
rob

 

[SleekWolf]

Re: 1977 merc 1150 water pump question

Great advice on the peeing. Thanks! I got it fired up a little bit ago and had it running. It was peeing good at first, but then slowed to a trickle and water was coming from the square hole behind the pee tube?? THEN I noticed white gooey stringy like stuff coming out of the outlets on the lower unit. It appears to be the remnants of a spider's web who took up residence somewhere in the cooling system. F***ing great. So I shut 'er down for the day cuz it looks like rain any minute. (of course hard to tell with this crazy weather we're having this year.) Any advice on cleaning out the cooling system?

As for my carbs... I could not believe how filthy the fuel was in the bowls. It literally looked like mud and big chunks of rust and debri. I'm amazed it fired up at all before I rebuilt them, but it did for a couple seconds. I still can't get much rpm's out of it. I'm guessing 1500 tops, as I don't have the tach working yet. The throttle linkage doesn't "feel right" to me when I move it, so I guess that's where I'll start on that.

 

[o'hill]

Re: 1977 merc 1150 water pump question

Great advice on the peeing. Thanks! I got it fired up a little bit ago and had it running. It was peeing good at first, but then slowed to a trickle and water was coming from the square hole behind the pee tube?? THEN I noticed white gooey stringy like stuff coming out of the outlets on the lower unit. It appears to be the remnants of a spider's web who took up residence somewhere in the cooling system. F***ing great. So I shut 'er down for the day cuz it looks like rain any minute. (of course hard to tell with this crazy weather we're having this year.) Any advice on cleaning out the cooling system?

As for my carbs... I could not believe how filthy the fuel was in the bowls. It literally looked like mud and big chunks of rust and debri. I'm amazed it fired up at all before I rebuilt them, but it did for a couple seconds. I still can't get much rpm's out of it. I'm guessing 1500 tops, as I don't have the tach working yet. The throttle linkage doesn't "feel right" to me when I move it, so I guess that's where I'll start on that.

Be back shortly... My wife took out the neighbors fence with the riding mower and got it all wrapped up in the deck and while I was fixing that, she came in and decided she would wash her computer keyboard under the sink faucet and says she can't figure out why it's not working since she just washed it??? Aint life fun!

 

[SleekWolf]

Re: 1977 merc 1150 water pump question

Be back shortly... My wife took out the neighbors fence with the riding mower and got it all wrapped up in the deck and while I was fixing that, she came in and decided she would wash her computer keyboard under the sink faucet and says she can't figure out why it's not working since she just washed it??? Aint life fun!

And this is why we own boats.

 

[SleekWolf]

Re: 1977 merc 1150 water pump question

And btw, the keyboard should be ok if you let it dry out a couple days or take a hair drier to it lol

 

[o'hill]

Re: 1977 merc 1150 water pump question

Great advice on the peeing. Thanks! I got it fired up a little bit ago and had it running. It was peeing good at first, but then slowed to a trickle and water was coming from the square hole behind the pee tube?? THEN I noticed white gooey stringy like stuff coming out of the outlets on the lower unit. It appears to be the remnants of a spider's web who took up residence somewhere in the cooling system. F***ing great. So I shut 'er down for the day cuz it looks like rain any minute. (of course hard to tell with this crazy weather we're having this year.) Any advice on cleaning out the cooling system?

As for my carbs... I could not believe how filthy the fuel was in the bowls. It literally looked like mud and big chunks of rust and debri. I'm amazed it fired up at all before I rebuilt them, but it did for a couple seconds. I still can't get much rpm's out of it. I'm guessing 1500 tops, as I don't have the tach working yet. The throttle linkage doesn't "feel right" to me when I move it, so I guess that's where I'll start on that.

well not sure about coming from the square hole behind the pee tube? do you have the covers off? May have blown the pee tube off and running out there??? Pull the tube off the back of the head and blow compressed air in it and see if you can hear it at the lower unit? If you don't have air try a tip on your water hose and run water from top to bottom and see if it goes through. won't tell you if your impeller is bad but will let you know if stopped up. when it was peeing a small piece of trash may have broken loose and stopped up the tip if the pee tube? wouldn't take much to clog that tiny hole.


About your RPM's when you put the shift lever into full forward all the way down can you see if the butterfly's are opening all the way up. You can see the butterfly shafts on top of the carbs from the control box. also when you put the shift lever all the way down what appears to be the end of travel is not on mine it has about another inch to go. and that opens em up all the way. My tac don't work but revs way up there. and I guess you've probably already lubed all of you control cable ends at the motor? Mine were a little stiff.
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Now about the carbs on this engine. I pulled the top off the middle carb (the one pissing) and first thing I noticed was the front screw was loose. I went ahead and pulled the top and super clean inside. I guess someone rebuilt the carbs not too long ago. I pulled the float out and no restrictions and I mopped the gas out of the bowl and the sides of the bowl was slick and clean and the float looked new. I cleaned the needle seat and put back together and same thing. still pissing gas out the side jet. The gasket was cracked on one side so probably pulling air in and pushing gas out the side jet??? I'm guessing at this point. I am going to order new kits and do all three carbs. When I put it back together and tightened down the screw it did run alot smoother, but still pissing gas. So tomorrow is another day and I will see about ordering carb kits.
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And while I'm thinking about it, Don't remember if earlier we were talking about the water coming out anywhere besides the pisser when the motor is running, but when I had mine cranked a minute ago, I did notice water coming from the slots to the back of the motor behind where the muffs go on. Like a few inches behind there are a few slits in the housing and when running and reved water does spray out of there some. I think you asked about that.
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thanks for your help, I posted a reply earlier explaining all this and lost the reply, I guess cause I don't type fast enough to keep from getting logged out. Or maybe because I'm so long winded! : )