1979 Evinrude 140 Power loss.......need suggestions please.

[reeldutch]

Re: 1979 Evinrude 140 Power loss.......need suggestions please.

plugs<br /><br />champignon Ql77jc4<br />tcw III oil<br /><br />well its only a big possibility that the top carb was running lean.<br />it would be my first guess after reading your compression chart.<br />if he tells you after he serviced your carburators that 1 carburator isnt "setup" properly, i wouldnt go back to him anymore.<br />you are right most likely.<br />premature i dont think so.<br />it depents on how many service there was done the last 26 years.<br />if the carbs never been overhauled its more logic that it will run lean.<br />may be every 5 / 6 years clean out the carbs its just insurance.<br /><br />pop off the heads and get some pics, like dhadley suggests.<br />may be he can tell you a better story what was going on in the motor.<br /><br />good luck

 

[reeldutch]

Re: 1979 Evinrude 140 Power loss.......need suggestions please.

the reason why your motor seized and overheated is because you didnt get enough oil(oil/fuel mix 50:1) into the top cylinders (lean) thats why it overheated. no oil is lots of friction=heat<br />why the alarm didnt go off i dont know.<br />you better find that out to.<br />before breaking her in after rebuild.

 

[Theoutdoorsman]

Re: 1979 Evinrude 140 Power loss.......need suggestions please.

Are you suggesting I not go back to the mechanic who rebuit the motor, or the carbs. There where two seperate individuals who did work for me. The one who rebuilt the carbs for me had no knowledge of any internal damage. I just asked him to do it to rule out a possibly gummed or otherwise dirty carb. Afterwards, he informed me that the carbs were rather clean but one was set up incorrectly (float I think was way out of spec). Personally, I thought it'd be an electrical problem (power packs and/or coils). Also, I premix my gas and oil at 50:1. Are you suggesting I add a little more for safe measure or would this result in more problems like this later? As to the warning buzzer not sounding at the time of overheating, I'll definitely check into that one. Could it be that the sensors are faulty? I tested both by grounding them out and they worked fine. Are you aware of any other tests that I can perform to check them? Thanks a bunch..........ALAN

 

[reeldutch]

Re: 1979 Evinrude 140 Power loss.......need suggestions please.

just by grounding the wires does only tel you that your horn will go off IF your sensor works.<br />you only foun out that your horn is working not the sensors.<br />when you are ready to start rebuilding defently replace them.<br /><br />the mechanic who rebuild the motor in the first place should have rebuild the carbs also.<br />do you know why this motor was rebuild before?<br />might have bin the same problem and the mechanic who rebuid the motor ignored the cause.<br />scored cylinderwalls and broken rings are a result of something wrong with one ore more systems.<br /><br />still the person who rebuild your carbs could have checked your compression after he rebuild the carbs. and run the motor to test.<br /><br />dont add more oil to your gass.<br />you will get a dirty combustion camber wich will result in ring sticking and fouling plugs.<br /><br />if you have it all set correctly the motor will run propper and with some maintenance it wil last for another 26 years.<br />50:1 tcwIII not more not less.<br />ql77jc4 plugs gapped 0.30/0.40<br />you might want to do a decarb every 50 hours.<br />to ceep it carbon clean.<br /><br />have you taken the heads off yet.<br />thats your first concern right now.<br /><br />good luck

 

[Theoutdoorsman]

Re: 1979 Evinrude 140 Power loss.......need suggestions please.

No, I haven't popped the heads off as of yet. To be honest with you, I've never popped the heads of anything before, but I'm going to give it a go. I just recieved my service manual yesterday and I have to begin working again today. It's going to be 4 days before I can begin, and it will likely take me some time to do so, but I intend to do it ASAP. I'll post again with some photo's once the job is done. Unless, that is, you think this would be a job better suited for a marine mechanic. Be patient as it may be a few days before I can get back to you. Thanks...........ALAN

 

[reeldutch]

Re: 1979 Evinrude 140 Power loss.......need suggestions please.

taking the heads off is a piece of cake.<br />nothing difficult about it.<br /><br />read the manual and go ahead.<br />so you will see wat the damage is.<br />when you have the heads off we will surely hear from you.<br /><br />good luck and keep posting

 

[Theoutdoorsman]

Re: 1979 Evinrude 140 Power loss.......need suggestions please.

Do you think it might be best if I simply purchase another powerhead or possibly even another motor. I do know where there is another 140 just like mine, only a 1978 model. My current motor is a 1979 . Just curious if most of the electrical components, and other parts as well, wouldn't be the same. I'd be spending about the same money to rebuild as to purchase this 1978 motor AND I'd have another motor from which to part out (power packs, coils, lower unit, flywheel, stater, carbs, etc....) should I need anything later. Just weighing my options...... ...... Any advice? Will the parts off these two motors interchange?

 

[KYHunter]

Re: 1979 Evinrude 140 Power loss.......need suggestions please.

Theres a good possibility that the 1978 has a small center main bearing, meaning your crankshaft wouldn't work in the '78 block or visa versa. <br /> I believe , the other components are the same. Until the loopers came out. <br /> Dhadley , or some of the other experts will let you know more in detail, I'm sure. I just looked in my clymers manual. I dont have a oem manual for your motor.<br /><br /> KYHunter

 

[Theoutdoorsman]

Re: 1979 Evinrude 140 Power loss.......need suggestions please.

UPDATE!<br /><br />Just to reasure myself that I had in fact lost compression on the top two cylinders of the motor, I once again checked the compression before taking the heads off. What I discovered was, I have 105 psi in 3 of the four cylinders. The top right cylinder will register on the tester, however, it is so minute it's barely recognizable. Bare in mind, this is testing without the motor actually trying to start. If I left the plug wires attached and the motor tries to start, those numbers will climb to about 115 psi on the 3 cylinders but no change in the top right cylinder. If this is the case, would this likely rule out a carb problem? I intend to pull the head this weekend to more closely examine the cylinder walls and I'll post photo's as soon as they're available. Also, is it possible to repair the one cylinder and get this thing going again without a complete overhaul? If so, how much money do you suppose it will take to do the repairs, assuming the worst case cenario of course?

 

[Dave Abrahamson]

Re: 1979 Evinrude 140 Power loss.......need suggestions please.

I've seen others ask the same question about fixing just one cylinder. Looks like it would be fine. Others have even bored out one cylinder .030 over and kept the remaining three stock with no problems. But like said above, wait for Dhadley and JoeReeves to answer. They are the pro's...not me. Have faith.

 

[Dhadley]

Re: 1979 Evinrude 140 Power loss.......need suggestions please.

If you have that low of compression on a starboard cylinder most likely you'll have broken rings. Once you pull the heads you'll be able to confirm. The motor has to come apart. Whether you bore 1 or 4, it's the same. It's gotta come apart.<br /><br />Lets pull the heads.

 

[reeldutch]

Re: 1979 Evinrude 140 Power loss.......need suggestions please.

yep and while your at it all 4 need to be honed. 1 cylinder rebored, one new piston kit and 3 sets of rings.<br />if you do all the work yourself you will probbebly spend a 1000 dollars on a rebuild.<br />if you dont run into trouble.<br /><br />if you dont want to spend it i would part out the motor.<br />but if you decide to rebuild yourself, do it once do it right.<br />with an older motor i would rebore all 4.<br />you cant beat that.

 

[reeldutch]

Re: 1979 Evinrude 140 Power loss.......need suggestions please.

how did you check the compression?<br />sounds like you had the spark plugs in the other cylinders trying to start??????<br /><br />it doesnt rule out a carb problem.<br />but it doesnt mean that it is the carb.<br />you really have to pull the heads and discribe waths going on.<br /><br />lots of carbon buildup, may be hole in piston from spark plug, may be its so badly scored it will need to be resleeved.<br />we dont know whats going on until we take a peek into the combustion chamber.

 

[KYHunter]

Re: 1979 Evinrude 140 Power loss.......need suggestions please.

I am in the process of rebuilding another 115 crossflow.<br /> I found a broke down motor, with significant cylinder damage. The block was too far gone to bore. <br /> I found one , and the place bored it to match the .020 pistons , I bought from them. <br /> Total price for block , freshly bored , was $400.00. With the gasket kit, pistons , new crankshaft bearings and piston pin bearings.<br /> New thermostats, carb kits, lower main bearing. I had upper and center main allready. <br /> Im in the range of 1100.00, for parts.<br /> Being, your block is probably , ok , to bore. You can knock off 400.00.<br /> If you shop around , checking e-bay. You can find NEW parts for a bargain price. <br /> If I were you, as allready stated. <br /> I would have the block bored , all 4 holes. That is if you intend to keep the motor. Its kind of up to you. I enjoy working on them .<br /> You maybe better off buying a used motor. But you really can't be sure what your getting. I figure if I do the work, I know whats been done and pretty much have a new motor.<br /> If you do a search for replacing one piston or something along those lines. Theres alot of info from the experts on this.<br /> One thing I would stop doing is turning the motor over. Now that you know its dropped a cylinder. Theres no sense in doing anything ,but tearing it down and see what the damage is. <br /> It may not do anymore significant damage. But why take a chance, of doing more damage, to other components of the powerhead. ie: crankshaft, cylinders, connecting-rods etc. <br /> PLEASE, go out, and in just a few minutes. You can pull the heads and have an idea of what you'll have to do. Instead of , trying to get a fix, without knowing whats broke.<br /> <br /> Good-Luck,<br /> KYHunter

 

[Theoutdoorsman]

Re: 1979 Evinrude 140 Power loss.......need suggestions please.

Ooooo.....Kkkkk......Here goes nothing!!! <br /><br />First I want to thank "Hotrod", and all involved in his thread on the forum, for inspiring me to do the unmentionable. I pulled the heads!!!!<br /><br />Secondly, I want to let everyone out there, who might happen to stumble upon THIS thread, to know right off the bat that I have absolutely NEVER pulled the heads off an engine by myself before. Let alone overhaul one by myself. Let's just say, I'm a virgin at this. However, this is something I have longed to do since I was 16 years old. With the exception of spending the money to do it, of course....LOL. And "Hotrod", If your still out there, THANK YOU AGAIN!!! for the inspiration. Someone please be certain he see's this!!! Your thread didn't go un-noticed!!!! Without further ado, let the fun begin.......Here's some photo's....... Please be advised this is something that is going to take me some time to repair, as funding is low. Let's just say this is going to be my little hobby project. I will continue to post to this thread as the project moves forward. Someone please elaborate on what has occured to cause this damage so as to prevent this from happening again. Maybe someone else out there can benefit from the info as well. <br /><br />Also, can someone explain to me which side is which.....port side, starboard side for later reference? Thanks.<br /><br />Here's the low down......Top left cylinder has a low spot, or grooved I guess, which is likely the reason for low compression. The bottom left piston has dings in the crown but , otherwise, appears to be in pretty good condition. No grooves in the cylinder wall. The top right cylinder/piston is toast! And the bottom right piston/cylinder appear to be in good condition. <br /><br />PICTURES:<br /><br />

<br /><br />

<br />I'm pretty sure a new one is in order here.....am I correct?<br /><br />

 

[reeldutch]

Re: 1979 Evinrude 140 Power loss.......need suggestions please.

good you pulled the heads and posted pics.<br /><br />and the best part of it is you first want to figure out what went wrong.<br />im shure dhadley will look at these pics and can tell you what caused this.<br /><br />my guess is that your top carburator caused these problems.<br />dirty or float out of adjustment.<br /><br />but there are experts here who will explain it better.<br /><br />1 - find out the cause<br />2 - make shure you will corect the cause<br />3 - find a good machineshop who will rebore the block for you.<br /><br />its a great project wich will beat the price of a new 115hp E-tec by about 9000 dollars.<br /><br />good luck

 

[Theoutdoorsman]

Re: 1979 Evinrude 140 Power loss.......need suggestions please.

The scars in the top right cylinder are such that I'm really not very confident .030 will cut it. They are pretty deep. But then again, I may be wrong. I'm certainly no expert at this......LOL Assuming I can, if I sleeve the top right cylinder, should I expect it to last just as long as the other 3? What about mis-matched piston sizes? I might be able to sleeve this cylinder to match that of 3 others but the top left will most likely need to be bored .010 over that of the remaining three cylinders to remove the groove. That would make the top left cylinder slightly larger or at least .010 over the others. I would think all 4 should be the same, by what I've read. Or so it seems anyway. Any concerns? If this is the case, I may be in need of a new block. Right now though, I don't know how far it was bored to begin with. That still remains to be seen. Just wanted more feedback on this issue. Sorry for playing 100 questions here, but should I tear into this thing any further? If so, I need to store the parts for later assembly. What is the most effective method of doing so without worrying about the parts rusting while I wait for the block boring to be done. Keep in mind, its going to be a little while before I can come up with the funds to have the work done. Maybe 3 weeks or so. And then there's pistons and such to buy later. So they need to be stored for a good period of time. I'm off work for the next 3 days, so I have time set aside to do it, that is IF storing the parts isn't an issue. Thanks a bunch........ALAN

 

[clint]

1979 Evinrude 140 Power loss.......need suggestions please.

You should de-power with 115 heads and carbs. Change the carbs and new timing to preserve motor. With a new sleeve and piston change it is recomended.
JP

 

[clint]

Re: 1979 Evinrude 140 Power loss.......need suggestions please.

You have to re-sleeve that damaged cylinder and add a new piston which will be larger. All new rings on other cylinders and honing, Remember to De-power the motor like I said to 115 hp and with used reconditioned 115 heads. Timing will be different too as well as spark plugs. The Motor will last 10 times longer with that type of re-build. Less strain on the rude.
JP

 

[Theoutdoorsman]

Re: 1979 Evinrude 140 Power loss.......need suggestions please.

UPDATE:

I have shipped my block, crank, rods, and head to Kurt at Mar-Fab. He has informed me that the block cleaned up nice at .030 over. I opted to bore all 4 cylinders the same, had the crank journals polished, rod journals polished, and had the head deburred, as per Kurts recomendation. Four new wiseco piston kits, 2 carb kits, 1 water pump kit, new thermostats, new temp switches, all new bearings throughout (including new crank bearings), 1 small gel seal, and a new gasket set have all been ordered !!! Hopefully, this will all be in my hand by the end of this week and ready for assembly.

EDIT: Since posting this, I have learned of 2 rods that will nee to be replaced as well. They will ship along with the other parts from Mar-Fab. Should be here any time now!!!! Getting anxious to start the rebuilding process !!!!! I think I've read the book 3 times now.........LOL


Oh yeah........ I'm still trying to locate the "lync and sync" posting via Joe Reeves. If anyone knows where it is, can you please post a link here. I can't locate it via the search option. Thanks !!!