1984 Skeeter Champ 16' Restore

GT1000000

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Re: 1984 Skeeter Champ 16' Restore

The Maroon on the cap looks fantastic...gonna shine up real purdy-like:)

The corners where the big grinder can't get to, try either a dremel, with some sanding drums or a ball grinding bit, kinda tedious, but it'll work...or get some sanding rolls or maybe a stiff wire wheel shaped like a cone, for your drill motor, and try that...basically a good ruff-n-scuff, then just refill w/PB...

Transom plate is looking good, bet you are excited as a kid on Christmas Eve...:D
 

Woodonglass

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Re: 1984 Skeeter Champ 16' Restore

Yep, fill it with PB and any voids in the edges. Then make sure and precoat the transom with resin. Once it tacks, put on another light coat of resing an lay the CSM. Once it tacks you can mix the PB, Spread it and Clamp her in!!! Good Luck!!!!
 

fmjnax

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Re: 1984 Skeeter Champ 16' Restore

Thanks guys! That helps a ton! I'll probably look at 'glassing in the transom tomorrow. I've been spending the day finishing up cleaning out the hull; removing the stringers, the remaining foam, etc. I just got done washing it all out and I've still got a little more to remove before I'm at a state to start the transom. I've also been fine-tuning the new transom to get the best fit possible.

One question between now and then - When I am at the stage to lay the CSM on the transom, am I covering the entire thing or just one side? I've been watching FriscoBoaters vids and it looks like he just put it on one side.
 

GT1000000

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Re: 1984 Skeeter Champ 16' Restore

After the obligatory resin soak on both sides, I covered the unseen side with a layer of CSM, wrapped over the edges, trimmed off the excess, then a layer of CSM on the inside face, trimmed, then PB'd it in, then tabbed with CSM approximately 8" wide, then tabbed with 1708 approximately 12" wide, then finally a full piece of 1708 that overlapped the final tabbing by about 3-4" on either side...

I think you could skip the inside CSM, if you are going to do the entire procedure in one day...
I only did the inside facing with the full layer of CSM in case it rained and my hull filled up...:facepalm:
 

Woodonglass

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Re: 1984 Skeeter Champ 16' Restore

IHMO you CSM Both Sides. Check the first link in my Signature. It has a drawing that shows you how I'd do it.
 

fmjnax

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Re: 1984 Skeeter Champ 16' Restore

Good deal WoG. Dunno how I missed that link! That should make it nice and easy. No tabbing needed before laying the 1708?

Today was a busy day on the hull, but it seems like I didn't get much progress done (though I know I really did). I started at 10 this morning pulling the remaining foam/stringers and getting it to a state where I can grind and be ready to install the transom and stringers. It got dark on me before I could take some new pictures, but these two are from this afternoon.

I cut the stringers with the the jigsaw (and broke my last blade as I was about 95% done!). I dug out the existing wood from the "channels" so that I could try and use it as a temporary tab while I fabricate the new stringers. As I was doing this, I noticed something odd on the center stringer back towards the bilge area. There was a hard black coating and a filling in the keel. It was cracked and as I started to chip away at it, it looks like it was just resin (a yellow-ish hard, yet brittle, substance that kind of resembled glass). Upon further inspection as I was chipping it all out, it looks like someone had replaced the stringers at some point in the past (or did a patch job). As I chipped away the resin, I found a stringer that was cut down and capped with this resin. I also noticed that the existing center stringer was off-center from this newly discovered stringer. That very well may explain why these stringers appeared so poorly fabricated!

*edit*
In the last picture, you can kind of see the stuff that was filling the keel. The old stringer I found extended back another 6" or so underneath this resin.

Anyway, I spent a solid 5 hours chipping out all of this resin from the keel and I still don't have it all out! It will probably take a few hours more tomorrow to get it out... and then I still have finish up in the bow. I'm hoping I will still have time to install the transom, but I'm not going to get my hopes up on it. I'm still making progress, but it's not as fast as I had planned/hoped.

Here are the two pictures from this afternoon:
2012042812315266.jpg

20120428123204935.jpg
 

fmjnax

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Re: 1984 Skeeter Champ 16' Restore

Dang, how do you guys make fiberglassing look so easy?!?! This should be a pretty funny story and worth the read. I apologize for the length. The new transom is in the boat (barely), but first some preliminary:

I mentioned yesterday that I spent quite a few hours chipping out resin from the keel. Here are some better pictures of what I was looking at. In this picture (excuse the finger over the camera), you can see where I have been chipping away. You can also see the remnants of the "hidden" stringer that was capped off. The existing stringer stopped right around where the shade/sun line is at. It's hard to see, but this hidden stringer is dead center in the keel but the existing stringer was lined up just to the right of the center line. I really think that at some point in time, somebody had replaced the stringers (but did a half-azzed job).
2012042915110343.jpg


This is the stuff that has been coming out of the keel. I'm fairly certain it is plain resin, but either way it's been a real PITA to remove.
2012042915120353.jpg


Now on to the transom. I didn't particularly feel like messing with the keel and cleaning out the rest of the hull so I decided to go ahead and put in the transom. I had to run in to Lowes to pick up some 2x4's and some nuts/bolts so that I could make the infamous transom clamps. I also finished up shaping the transom for the best fit as possible. At this point, everything is looking pretty good...
20120429151043850.jpg


... but then things went South in a hurry! I initially took my time and tried to make sure I had everything in order and at hand. I had a bucket of acetone, extra gloves, scissors, my brushes, squeegees, and roller. The setup was perfect (or so I thought). I laid out the new transom and cut two pieces of CSM. Here is where the problems started.

When I cut the CSM, I cut it with a little extra on all sides thinking I would just fold it over. I didn't have a second thought about it. After cutting the two pieces, I set them aside and mixed up about 20oz of resin and began coating the wood. No problems here! I let it sit for a few minutes and then put the first piece of CSM on it. I mixed up another 16oz of resin, wet it out, and rolled it smooth. At this point I thought everything was going smoothly...
20120429165519359.jpg


I let everything set up for a while and then flipped the transom over to start on the other side. I took the same approach; soaked the wood, laid out the CSM... oh crap! I now had CSM overhang on BOTH sides of the transom. Folding it over was out of the question now. No problem, I thought. I would just cut it off after it has set up a bit.

I let everything set up for a while again and said "oh crap" again! I had flipped the transom and the semi-cured side was directly on top of my table saw. Afraid it was going to cure and be forever stuck on my table saw, I started to scramble trying to think of where I could stand it up. If things were already bad, they were soon going to be worse!

I rigged up a couple of posts to lean the transom up against and put some wax paper around it so that it wouldn't stick to the posts. I went to pick up the transom... and fibers started sliding everywhere. I had to kind of squeeze it between my forearms (which meant resin all down my arms!). Then, as I started to set the transom down, I remembered all of the extra overhang CSM. CRAP! I was already committed at this point and just sat it down and told myself I would fix it later.

After I had sat the transom down, my gloves stuck and pulled up fibers. I grabbed my roller and tried to lay them back down as best I could. I then rushed off the get some acetone on my arms before the resin cured on my arms. I also decided to go ahead and eat dinner.

After dinner, I went out to assess the damage. I ended up with some bubbles around the edges, but the for the most part the transom was ok. I let it cure up the rest of the way and then put it back on the table to try and take care of the edges. I cut off all the excess CSM and as much of the bubbles/delamination as possible. I ended up with about a 1/2" edge around the visible side of the transom that had no glass (luckily, the contact side with the hull was 100% covered!). The wood was still soaked with resin so I'm hoping I can get by with the tabbing (let me know if you think otherwise, please!).

Ok, so with that major headache over, I mixed up 32oz of resin and mixed in enough cabosil to make PB (not sure how much cabosil it took; I used a plastic spoon and just added 4 scoops at a time until it was right). I slopped it down, pressed in the transom, and installed the clamps until it just started to ooze out. I was going to use the excess to make the fillets, but there just wasn't enough to it (I should have mixed at least 40oz, but that's hindsight).

And that is where I stand. Darkness was falling, so no pictures of how it looks, but I'll get pictures of the mess tomorrow. We have baseball and softball games tomorrow, so it looks like no boat work will be done tomorrow. I still need to fillet the transom, tab it to the hull, and lay the 1708, but for now I think it's looking alright. It's not perfect like you pros always show it, but it's in there. WHEW!
 

GT1000000

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Re: 1984 Skeeter Champ 16' Restore

Wow, that beats my goof ups, you win!...I'm just glad it all seemed to turn out OK in the end...as I have found out by trial and error, mostly error...Fiberglass is very forgiving, you just need to keep the grinder handy...:rolleyes:

Funny thing about those hidden stringers, I would have to agree from your description that some PO had been ther before...

I know I am late to the party, but the next time you plan on any two sided resin/mat/cloth work...drive some screws or nails into the plywood work surface, that way, the piece stays suspended from the surface and will just end up with maybe some easily repaired dimples...you can also put a layer of clear plastic [like a Saran wrap or cling wrap type] on the surface to keep it from becoming too messy, just don't put the piece directly on it cause it might melt the plastic into the resin...when you are done just dispose and repeat as needed...similar to going to the Dr.'s for an exam...what they do with the paper on the exam table...
 

fmjnax

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Messages
457
Re: 1984 Skeeter Champ 16' Restore

The fiberglassing itself wasn't bad, I guess. I didn't have any resin kick off on me and I was ballpark on how much resin I needed. The cloth was easy to cut, easy to wet out, and easy to roll. It behaved just as I thought it would. What really got me was the preparation. I thought I had it down, but boy was I wrong! Trial and error, for sure! Your tip would have been an absolute life saver though bud! ;) If I ever have to do another transom, you can bet it will go much better. I don't forsee the stringers or deck being as complicated either.

I had to go put the 4-wheelers away so I decided to see if I could get some pictures of the aftermath of the screw up. Here's what it looks like (as embarrassed as I am to post them!). The top of the transom is fine. The excess I can grind/cut off. The sides are ok. The side bonded to the hull skin is absolutely perfect (through all the mess, I made absolutely sure not to mess that side up). The problem I have is on the visible side. On average, I have about a 1/2" edge all the way around that doesn't have CSM on it (the wood is still resin-soaked, though). Other than that, it looks good to me.

This is the left side. There was a bubble up top that I had to grind down. The rest is the edge I was talking about.
20120429213347823.jpg


This is the right side. It's not as bad as the left side, but still have the edge problem. You can see the excess CSM above the top that can be cut/ground down.
20120429213326863.jpg


Finally, this is the center. It looks good... except for the edge problem.
2012042921340076.jpg
 

Seasonally.boating.jon

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Re: 1984 Skeeter Champ 16' Restore

fmjnax, very funny. I loved the way you explained it. I had a smile on my face all the way through.

Everbody has those moments. It ain't no thang. What ever misshaps we have, its not like it cann't be delt with. I had to redo the lower part of my transome. $4!t happens.:eek:
 

fmjnax

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Re: 1984 Skeeter Champ 16' Restore

Ha! I'm glad some humor could come from my ordeal! ;)

I was looking at my 1708 tabs I cut and it got me wondering... what side goes down and what side faces up?
 

GT1000000

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Re: 1984 Skeeter Champ 16' Restore

By the pics you posted, you are just fine...no worries...tear, don't cut, some strips of CSM, to fill the missing spaces, glass them in, then continue on with your tabbing...

If you have any doubts about how to tab, check out "woodonglass" sig...

I hope I am correct here, 'cause thats how I've been doin it forever...the part that looks like stitched cloth, UP...the CSM side Down...

All in all a solid job...by the time you get it tabbed in and laminated with a full coverage of 1708...it is going to be H&!! bent for strong...

Keep up the great progress...
 

Woodonglass

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Re: 1984 Skeeter Champ 16' Restore

Yep, Cloth up, Mat down. Resin has Styrene that "Melts" the mat and helps "Join" the new to the old. Cloth adds the strength
 

fmjnax

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Re: 1984 Skeeter Champ 16' Restore

Good deal guys, thanks! That's kind of what I had suspected but I wanted to make sure.

When I tear the pieces of CSM and lay them up on the "problem", can I go ahead with the fillets/tabs at the same time or should I let it cure up before I do so?

And I think it's time to start talking foam. I was going to go with a 2-part expanding but have since decided to just use the sheet foam from the big box stores. I haven't done an expansive search at Lowes, but I have kind of glanced around and I don't know if I've found the right stuff or not. What should I be looking for?
 

GT1000000

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Re: 1984 Skeeter Champ 16' Restore

Once you get those filled out, you can continue with the tabbing, etc...called a wet on wet application...it is the ideal way to lay glass, it creates a chemical bond, although due to time constraints, we can't always do it this way...so we end up with the next best thing, which is a mechanical bond...

I haven't crossed the foam bridge yet, so I'll leave that to the ones who know better...
 

JDA1975

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Re: 1984 Skeeter Champ 16' Restore

So now you know my evil plan...I quit working on mine so I could follow you now instead of you following me! That was an enjoyable read, dont sweat it, it is a nice job for a first time, and will work out in the end! Cap is looking great. I can't wait to see it all back together
 

fishbone77

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Re: 1984 Skeeter Champ 16' Restore

Very funny - glad that it came out ok! I agree, despite the best of intentions, sometimes s%!t happens...haha Great progress! Can't wait to see more!
 

fmjnax

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Re: 1984 Skeeter Champ 16' Restore

Thanks a lot Judge! I knew you were up to something! ;)

Appreciate the support fellas. I'm really trying to get everything done for Memorial Day weekend and as long as I keep at it, I should be able to make the date.
 

fmjnax

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Re: 1984 Skeeter Champ 16' Restore

I think the transom is officially done! (but no pictures tonight, sorry)

I started today by grinding down the bubbles and the remaining excess screw ups. I then put more resin on the exposed wood to soak in. I tore off pieces of CSM and patched around the sides to cover the exposed wood. I also put some of the torn pieces over the top to seal it off as well.

Once that was done, I mixed up my PB and put filleted the sides/bottom. After that, I tabbed it to the hull with the 1708. When the tabbing was done, I put on the full 1708 layer. This time I got smart, though! I laid out the 1708 and cut it to fit EXACTLY how I wanted it. It ended up perfect (for me)! Major milestone complete and time to move on to the stringers.
 

fmjnax

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Re: 1984 Skeeter Champ 16' Restore

I apologize up-front, but it may be a while before I get more pictures uploaded. My camera/phone took a dive on me. I've got a replacement coming and it should be here tomorrow or Monday. I know it will be tough to accurately answer my question without pictures, but we'll give it a shot anyway. Now, moving on...

How crucial is it that my stringers be cut perfectly straight for the deck to rest on? :D My old stringers were far too rotten and busted up to use as templates, so I took a "trial and error" cutting approach. I was able to trace a template of the hull curvature using the "oops method". I cut the pattern onto stringer blanks that I intentionally cut a few inches taller than I knew I would need. I temporarily tacked them into place with a bit of PL Premium (I knew I didn't buy that giant tube of the stuff for nothing!) and got busy marking them at the correct height.

For the most part, I got it done without issue. However, my skills with a jigsaw are apparently not up to code! On the right rear stringer, about 9-12" from the transom, my hand-eye coordination apparently reverted to toddler level and I ended up cutting a dip about 1/2" too low over a span of about 4-6". Luckily (or hopefully?) this is the area where the bilge pump/trim pump/livewell pump is location so the deck doesn't extend past this stringer; rather, it stops at this stringer. As a result, I thought that I could kind of build it up with some PB to fill the gap and I can drape some glass from the top of the deck over the side of this stringer to help hold it in. I really don't see it as a problem, but I wanted to get some opinions.

Also, I noticed that my layer of 1708 over the transom may have some issues. I thought I had wet it out real well (I kept spreading resin until it wouldn't take anymore and it just pooled at the bottom) and I rolled it for quite a while and got a lot of bubble popping action int he process, but I'm seeing spots pretty much all over that aren't fully transparent. I looked good when I was done rolling, so is it possible that it bubbled back up on it's own as it was curing? They don't feel like air bubbles, though (they don't move when I push on them) and it kind of looks like the CSM part of it didn't quite get enough resin. The stitched side all looks wet/transparent and the entire transom is rock solid. It's tabbed to the hull perfectly. Should I be worried about this and if so, how should I correct it? It's vast enough that I would just about have to grind ALL of the 1708 off of it to try again.

Finally, I'm still looking for some help on getting the right "sheet foam" from Lowes/Home Depot. Not exactly sure what I need to be looking for. :)
 
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