1985 Seaswirl Tempo 17 floor replacement turning into something bigger.

[ster1]

Re: 1985 Seaswirl Tempo 17 floor replacement turning into something bigger.

A heartfelt and sincere Thank You from me and my family to those who serve!

I got some done on the transom today. I sanded the perimeter flush with the stern and found some dry CSM around the edges of the plug.

https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/BTip16zWQthufT_mj9mvB6HCuTx9N85ff0vacwuIzpg?feat=directlink

https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/kLv9XCXnoOMWF38f6r0jOqHCuTx9N85ff0vacwuIzpg?feat=directlink

I took my dremel around the edge of the plug to get (most of) the dry CSM out. You can see where I took a few chunks out of the stern.

https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/Dw4AlYnQZZ-zhM8EIRiav6HCuTx9N85ff0vacwuIzpg?feat=directlink

I made up a filler of cut up CSM and polyester. I cut the CSM too long so when it was mixed up and catalyzed, it made a really difficult and messy material to work with. I was thinking it would be more like drywall compound but it was really more like thick gooey jelly. I was going to use a trowel to pack it in the gap and smooth it out, but I actually had to use my hands (had gloves). It was just tough to work with but I got it in there and it will fill the gap and be strong.

https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/nPiPjrRx4glTgaicMZNaSKHCuTx9N85ff0vacwuIzpg?feat=directlink

It's going to take a bit more sanding but once the perimeter of the plug is flush again, all I have to do then is screed a thin layer of polyester over the whole thing and it will be done. Most of the plug is slightly less than flush with the surface of the transom, so that worked out great. I guess resin shrinks a bit when it's cured. That worked out in my favor!

https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/9aavsTKMjkynp8LfK6yJ16HCuTx9N85ff0vacwuIzpg?feat=directlink

Once the outside of the transom is done, I'm going to drill about 1/2 inch hole in the center to actually measure the thickness of the transom. I think I will have to route off maybe 1/16th of an inch from the inside which is still bare wood. I want at least one layer of CSM and 2 layers of 1708, which will be about 1/16 of an inch, and I bet I'm at 2 1/4 inches already. I don't know for sure; we will see.

 

[JASinIL2006]

Re: 1985 Seaswirl Tempo 17 floor replacement turning into something bigger.

Nice! Soon you'll be rid of that ugly OMC hole and you can replace it with the aesthetically-pleasing and thoroughly modern keyhole!

You're making great progress.

 

[ster1]

Re: 1985 Seaswirl Tempo 17 floor replacement turning into something bigger.

Thank you Jasin, it's been hard work and a total PITA but when it done it will be better than new. You and everyone else here at iboats have been a great help! Beers on me if I ever get the chance

 

[ster1]

Re: 1985 Seaswirl Tempo 17 floor replacement turning into something bigger.

I had a challenging day today. Not only was my transom too thick overall by 1/16" without any csm or 1708 on the inside yet...

https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/6CXB00faTpXDSPOvljtydqHCuTx9N85ff0vacwuIzpg?feat=directlink

But something happened while routing 3/16" off the inside, and the bit just kept going further into the wood.

https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/hCS1Q4uQZxF-hIrL6vXX1aHCuTx9N85ff0vacwuIzpg?feat=directlink

I used a syringe to fill in all the holes with polyester. I also wasn't getting the results I wanted using polyester to fair and finish the plug, so I used Bondo to finish it up. I hope that won't turn into a mistake. Time will tell.

https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/0I6jnr5nHylVViUu0Uqm4aHCuTx9N85ff0vacwuIzpg?feat=directlink

https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/RZNI1MgZemqdVhPJ1DkzSqHCuTx9N85ff0vacwuIzpg?feat=directlink

I used some chopped CSM and resin to fill in the gouge left by the router. I'm very frustrated about this, but there is nothing I can do about it.

https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/azfyolcswMoImapYWaJRUqHCuTx9N85ff0vacwuIzpg?feat=directlink

https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/fadbb89mDHtj55c-q3o7ZaHCuTx9N85ff0vacwuIzpg?feat=directlink

Tomorrow will be a better day

 

[ster1]

Re: 1985 Seaswirl Tempo 17 floor replacement turning into something bigger.

I had a partially good day and a partially bad day. I got 2 layers of CSM on the transom.

https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/zSN4wXqQskvR0opKWbw_GqHCuTx9N85ff0vacwuIzpg?feat=directlink

I think it looks pretty good

https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/LJCx1BVmMpW81rWjMSu7W6HCuTx9N85ff0vacwuIzpg?feat=directlink

https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/cX9xF-xiLuOhbpbLAt-SM6HCuTx9N85ff0vacwuIzpg?feat=directlink

https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/zdaSMLkJBfqSxggg_NjamKHCuTx9N85ff0vacwuIzpg?feat=directlink

The white parts are places I've already sanded and the pink is because I used a little bondo to finish filling in the gouge from the router yesterday. Everything is looking good until you look closely at the first layer of 1708

https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/CFhfHV0PKUB0Ytw6WFXRh6HCuTx9N85ff0vacwuIzpg?feat=directlink

Do you see them?

https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/KugqsIjzBLqWbVkIQFtFAqHCuTx9N85ff0vacwuIzpg?feat=directlink

DELAMS! Several of em, Had to grind out and patch.

https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/q4RBRo0RiXgYv6CIB2Fjn6HCuTx9N85ff0vacwuIzpg?feat=directlink

https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/G8jpc9N1PFJS304FlwOx3qHCuTx9N85ff0vacwuIzpg?feat=directlink

https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/x0t2dCfVSsG9L7TojtJ5yaHCuTx9N85ff0vacwuIzpg?feat=directlink

Frustrating!

https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/RcPuj953TX2NU0nD_YpA8qHCuTx9N85ff0vacwuIzpg?feat=directlink

I should not have tried to put it in in one piece, that transom is too big and too many compound curves. I should have used one piece for the face and 5 strips for the bevelled part. That would defeat some of the strength I'm sure but I wouldn't have these delams.

I'm glad I cought it before the second layer of 1708. By the way, I'm 2 3/16" thick with one more layer to go. I'm sure I'll be witing spec as far as that goes.

 

[ster1]

Re: 1985 Seaswirl Tempo 17 floor replacement turning into something bigger.

Since I obviously managed to mangle that first layer of 1708 so badly, should I not worry about patching it and just grind it off and start again? The CSM beneath it seems fine. If I cut out all the bad parts and patch it, I just lost all the strength the 1708 is supposed to provide. Thoughts?

 

[JASinIL2006]

Re: 1985 Seaswirl Tempo 17 floor replacement turning into something bigger.

What do you think caused the problems with the 1708? Normally when I had problems with glassing a large piece of cloth, it wasn't the flats that bubbled, but the contoured parts. What are you using to work the cloth into the resin?

 

[ster1]

Re: 1985 Seaswirl Tempo 17 floor replacement turning into something bigger.

It was the contour, almost all the way around. I had to route off 3/16" because the whole thing was too thick before I even started laying glass on the inside. So, since I couldn't get my router all the way to the edge of the transom, I routed off a portion where the drive would be. It's an odd shape, more or less circular in the middle of the flat area, but big enough for the drive. Kinda pisses me off, but I didn't see the stuff was delaminated until it was cured. I did use the wrong tool though, I used a regular 4" soft roller, not a hard laminating roller. That's another short cut that bit me. Someday I'm going to learn. So I'm wondering if I should just grind the whole damn thing off and start over. The CSM beneath it is just fine. I ground out some of the delams and patched em, but I've lost all the strength in that 1708 now. I could grind out all the delams, patch em, and put 2 more layers of 1708 over em. I certainly have enough of the stuff. Ah, frustrating day. I should have tried out working with that 1708 on some scrap first (never even seen that stuff before). Another lesson.

 

[JASinIL2006]

Re: 1985 Seaswirl Tempo 17 floor replacement turning into something bigger.

Bummer. It's pretty frustrating to lay down nice new glass and come back to find bubbles... I hate to say it, but grinding it down and doing it over is probably your best bet.

I don't think there's anything wrong with using your roller to work the glass; I used mine (it was one of those 4" mini rollers) for about 90% of the glass I laid down. I found it handled imperfections in the underlying surface much better. (I mainly used the 'bubble roller' for rolling out 6 oz. glass over a really smooth surface that had been faired.)

One thing I learned is to stay with the fiberglass and keep working it until it starts to get quite tacky, especially if you're glassing on anything but a flat, horizontal surface. Normally, 1708 handles contours pretty well, but if you're trying to cover a concave surface, as I think you are, you really have to make sure the fabric is not stretched at all over the surface, you need the resin to be good and tacky before you lay in the fabric, and you need to get the concave part bedded before moving to the edges. I also found that rolling toward the center of the concave section (the depressed part) rather than rolling away from the center toward the edges, helped prevent the fabric from becoming taut and wanting to bridge over the concavity. Does that make sense?

Sorry about your problems. The good thing about fiberglass, though, is that you can just grind it off and do it over. It's not much fun to pull out the grinder and Tyvek suit again, though.

Jim

 

[LippCJ7]

Re: 1985 Seaswirl Tempo 17 floor replacement turning into something bigger.

Keep it up Brother, I'm going to have to stop by and check it out in person, seems like a couple days ago we were talking you off the ledge LOL, very happy with your progress

Lippy

BTW: you need to step it up I think I may splash tomorrow...

 

[ster1]

Re: 1985 Seaswirl Tempo 17 floor replacement turning into something bigger.

Hey there Rear Admiral You and your Big Block are making me jealous. Come on by any time, beers are always cold at Pete's house. This is just a setback, you know me, I'll git er dun. I finally took Jim's advice and got a Tyvek suit. I can say working with FG is a HELL of a LOT better with one of those.

 

[ster1]

Re: 1985 Seaswirl Tempo 17 floor replacement turning into something bigger.

It's gonna be a little quiet on this thread for a week or so. Taking some time off the project to catch up on some other stuff that needs done. I'll be back!

 

[ster1]

Re: 1985 Seaswirl Tempo 17 floor replacement turning into something bigger.

Back at it today. WOW what a mess! I was able to grind off almost all the 1708, which is good news. I have to get out the dremel to get the rest of it, but it's almost all out. Also more good news, it wasn't too hard to tell the difference, while grinding down, between the dry 1708 and the healthy pink CSM. I did nick the wood in 3 small spots, but I'm not going to worry about that. I was wearing my tyvek suit and everywhere I wasn't kneeling or otherwise leaning against something, the suit protected faitly well. Judging by the amount of FG I cleaned up and how little I itch, I'd call it a success! I'll have some pics tomorrow. I'm in a better mood now that I got that 1708 out of there. Tomorrow will be finish grinding, and laying up 2 clean successful wet layers of 1708. I'm going to have lots of rollers and brushes at hand, 6 containers of 16ozs un catalyzed polyester at the ready, and yes a hard laminating roller as well. Learning is SUCH a pain in the tookus. Stay tuned.

 

[JASinIL2006]

Re: 1985 Seaswirl Tempo 17 floor replacement turning into something bigger.

Good luck! Glad you found the suit to help. I wouldn't have done the grinding without it.

Jim

 

[ster1]

Re: 1985 Seaswirl Tempo 17 floor replacement turning into something bigger.

The suit makes it all tolerable!

Made some more progress today. I sanded the new 1708, and added a tab all around the transom to kind of fair it in and add some strength.

https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/gnn_S0PlJZljb3pPnwvlqKHCuTx9N85ff0vacwuIzpg?feat=directlink

Pretty far from perfect. In fact, I should technically grind it off again and do it again, but I'm thinking I'm going to move forward.

https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/eqXX2euShZSMj-ZqPsGBHqHCuTx9N85ff0vacwuIzpg?feat=directlink

This 1708 is in my opinion, difficult to work with. It soaks up lots of resin. That's not a bad thing, but it's difficult for a rookie like me to know how much area to work with, how much resin to have on hand, etc.

https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/aNFxK8J0itB9p76pvCKvnqHCuTx9N85ff0vacwuIzpg?feat=directlink

I think in hindsight, I would have had better luck just layering the CSM and cloth one at a time. Hard to say.

https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/DQOO8VADMH2eYNy0_bsZD6HCuTx9N85ff0vacwuIzpg?feat=directlink

Lessons learned while in "the fire" are for me, 100% more effective that those learned by any other method. MUCH more painful way of learning, but much more "my style".

https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/sTvHBKgA0if3BR645wbhzKHCuTx9N85ff0vacwuIzpg?feat=directlink

Tomorrow night will be some clean up and maybe start on a former for the stringers. I'm going to take them all the way to, and tab to, the transom. Unlike the original construction where the stringers stopped short and let the floor be the structure that bound them to the transom.

 

[ster1]

Re: 1985 Seaswirl Tempo 17 floor replacement turning into something bigger.

Made a good bit of progress today. Stringer extensions, engine mounts were today. Have a look:

https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/CdPenl0RWJbuT_S8cOazCKHCuTx9N85ff0vacwuIzpg?feat=directlink

It's not finished, I still have some trimming and tabbing to do but I got alot done.

https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/aSBRFKUlPh1dZ47BNjHwJKHCuTx9N85ff0vacwuIzpg?feat=directlink

I put in the stringer extensions last night. I made a former out of cardboard, and layered 2 layers of glass tape on em to give em some structure; something for the CSM and 1708 to grab on to.

https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/KsDLmoHUgzQxYIIb4NCKQ6HCuTx9N85ff0vacwuIzpg?feat=directlink

I had to do ALOT of buildup to get the stringers dimensionally correct. I couldn't get the contour of the new stringers to match the original. There's mucho glass in there though. I think it will be ok.

https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/jdeyuchLjepeXp9t7bH2eqHCuTx9N85ff0vacwuIzpg?feat=directlink

The stringers are tabbed into the hull, transom and original stringers. Then the engine mounts went in. 2 layers of 1708 tabbing them to the stringers and hull. When it's done, the transom, hull, stringers, and engine mounts will all be tabbed into each other.

https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/fd0q8qfFhK-Q3opB_thI26HCuTx9N85ff0vacwuIzpg?feat=directlink

I'm thinking I'm going to have a fairly string structure when I'm done. I have to trim the ends of the mounts, tab them in and put in the new bulkhead thats already laminated and ready to go.

I also have my left and right floor halves cut and fitted. Laminating them right now. A few days and a few layers of CSM front and back on those, and they'll be ready to go in. Then it's a few middle pieces, tab everything together, and the structure is done. It'll then be time to rob the parts off the donor vessel! Getting closer every day!

 

[ster1]

Re: 1985 Seaswirl Tempo 17 floor replacement turning into something bigger.

I'm having some trouble, does anyone have any pointers regarding covering the edges of the floor boards? I've tried CSM and tape and I just can't get anything to make that sharp turn from one side, around the edge to the other side. I'd like to cover the edges before I cover the front and back with my 2 layers of CSM. Thanks for your help!

 

[JASinIL2006]

Re: 1985 Seaswirl Tempo 17 floor replacement turning into something bigger.

Are you trying to wrap the edges of the decking before you lay it down? I didn't do that with mine. Unless you really round the edges, I can't see CSM or 1708 making that sharp of a bend.

I didn't cover the edges of my deck with fabric, but I did soak them really well with resin to waterproof them. Then, when I installed the decking, I filled all the gaps and spaces (between deck pieces or between decking and the hull) with thickened resin. Hard to imagine water getting in there... if you wrap the wood with glass and leave bubbles/cavities, you'll have created nice pockets to hold water up against the wood if any does get in there.

Tabbing the deck to the hull is another matter, but it doesn't sound like that's what you're talking about.

Jim

 

[ster1]

Re: 1985 Seaswirl Tempo 17 floor replacement turning into something bigger.

That's exactly what I'm talking about, and yes CSM and 1708 won't cut it. A few coats of resin on th edges sounds just what the doctor ordered. I'll be tabbing in the floor next week, and then off for another break but when I come back, it'll be time to fit the engine and cut the keyhole. I have to admit, I'm getting tired of messing around with the fiberglass. Such a PITA. But the end is in sight!

 

[JASinIL2006]

Re: 1985 Seaswirl Tempo 17 floor replacement turning into something bigger.

I know what you mean... working with fiberglass gets old. The worst part is having to break out the grinder "one more time" when you thought you were done with it.

When you coat the edges, you might want to mix the resin so it won't kick off to quick; you want it to have plenty of time time soak into the end grains. Don't be afraid to keep re-wetting the end grain, either. You want it to drink as much resin as possible before it cures.

Good luck with your decking!