1993 Mercruiser 3.0 new to me, with major problems, Not Running, Water mixed with oil

[saltybutwet]

Re: 1993 Mercruiser 3.0 new to me, with major problems, Not Running, Water mixed with

deleted post

 

[saltybutwet]

Re: 1993 Mercruiser 3.0 new to me, with major problems, Not Running, Water mixed with

well, I have a update...
it stopped raining her for a few hours so
I starter her up, and she ran perfect, as she has been doing. I let her warm up and proceeded to pump the oil from the pan, and removed the oil filter...here is what came out...

Now I just got to figure out if I should continue with flushing the engine out with some sort of engine flush, along with new oil, and filter, then run her for a while again...see what the oil looks like after that...OR...just give up and sell parts off the engine, so I can start to find a local 3.0 used, priced right, and hopefully don't have the same problem as I think this one may still have..

I have a questions for ya'll

1. How much water mixed with the engine oil will cause the color change?

 

[wrench 3]

Re: 1993 Mercruiser 3.0 new to me, with major problems, Not Running, Water mixed with

That's more than a little left over water. I'd have to say that you still have a problem. Sorry!

 

[saltybutwet]

Re: 1993 Mercruiser 3.0 new to me, with major problems, Not Running, Water mixed with

" Crunchy" oil lol....

 

[fishrdan]

Re: 1993 Mercruiser 3.0 new to me, with major problems, Not Running, Water mixed with

I don't know how much water would make the oil turn that shade of beige, but it "ain't" good.

Just out of curiosity, how long was the engine run to turn it that color and did you notice it getting milky as the engine was run?

 

[saltybutwet]

Re: 1993 Mercruiser 3.0 new to me, with major problems, Not Running, Water mixed with

I don't know how much water would make the oil turn that shade of beige, but it "ain't" good.

Just out of curiosity, how long was the engine run to turn it that color and did you notice it getting milky as the engine was run?

I stated to notice that oil chaning color within the last couple of runs,
I did see what i think is steam coming out the exhaust yesterday afternoon when running it fir a while
I will post a video of that when it uploads

 

[aerobat]

Re: 1993 Mercruiser 3.0 new to me, with major problems, Not Running, Water mixed with

i would recommend to stop any work on this engine or put any money in it. you seem to deal with an internal crack in the head or block which opens when the engine warms up.

what i can say to milky oil for sure: i helped a friend with a milky oil 5.7 which truly was not cracked but had a cracked intake manifold ( which was watercooled ) . after changing the manifold and changing the oil it stayed clean, it did not went milky again, no need for flushing or several oil changes.

you still deal with water intrusion !

 

[saltybutwet]

Re: 1993 Mercruiser 3.0 new to me, with major problems, Not Running, Water mixed with

i would recommend to stop any work on this engine or put any money in it. you seem to deal with an internal crack in the head or block which opens when the engine warms up.

I agree...

what i can say to milky oil for sure: i helped a friend with a milky oil 5.7 which truly was not cracked but had a cracked intake manifold ( which was watercooled ) . after changing the manifold and changing the oil it stayed clean, it did not went milky again, no need for flushing or several oil changes.

you still deal with water intrusion !
I agree...I have done a lot of research on this subject during this whole process of elimination, and most milky oil point to a manifold internal leak, or a head leak, sometimes a cracked block. I pressure tested the cooling system before I started the tear down, knowing the block and head held 19.5 psi for over 2 hrs, but that was with the block, and head at ambient temp.

I am going to pressure test the manifold separate from the system, and see what results I get, the darn thing is cracked , and has a lot of mill scale in it....

not sure how to separate the quotes, and reply to them separately

 

[aerobat]

Re: 1993 Mercruiser 3.0 new to me, with major problems, Not Running, Water mixed with

I am going to pressure test the manifold separate from the system, and see what results I get, the darn thing is cracked , and has a lot of mill scale in it....

i know throwing away an engine is a big decision, so go for it. but the manifold should give you much water in the cylinders - its nearly impossible you will get that amount of water to the cylinders which has to run past the rings to milkshake your oil that much just running it on muffs for the short period of time. do not give much hope the solution is the manifold - but of course it may be trash nevertheless.
the manifold story on your engine and the 5.7 i wrote is another. the 5.7 has a separate intake manifold between the V which will leak directly into the oil when its cracked. your 3.0 has an intake/exhaust manifold on the same side - its not a crossflow engine. and the only way to milk the oil on your engine is via the cylinders which seems like said impossible to me in that short time without stalling the thing.

one last wild guess - when the engine develops a rough run /misfire when warmed up , when the new plugs go black and then it milks up the oil - try to think about a cracked head. any chance to get somewhere a cheap used head to give it a last try for a budget solution ? if not you can try to resell the head.

 

[saltybutwet]

Re: 1993 Mercruiser 3.0 new to me, with major problems, Not Running, Water mixed with

i know throwing away an engine is a big decision, so go for it. but the manifold should give you much water in the cylinders - its nearly impossible you will get that amount of water to the cylinders which has to run past the rings to milkshake your oil that much just running it on muffs for the short period of time. do not give much hope the solution is the manifold - but of course it may be trash nevertheless.

one last wild guess - when the engine develops a rough run /misfire when warmed up and then milkes up the oil - try to think about a cracked head. any chance to get somewhere an cheap used head to give it a last try for a budget solution ? if not you can try to resell the head.

I know that it may be something else other than a bad manifold, and retesting it will satisfy my curiosity about it...I will say that i did a water pressure test incorrectly on Saturday. I plugged up the rubber exhaust boot and turned on the city water, allowing water to back up into the head, and valves, a lot of water went into the open valves. I had a lot of water on top of the pistons, had to remove the plugs, blow out all the cylinders, then remove all the engine oil, and water which is what is seen in the pics

The wild guess that you have, I agree with it. I went to a vary local reputable machine shop in town, who does business with the county I work for. I explained to the owner about my mercruiser 3.0, and asked if he is familiar with it, he said " sure I see marine engines ect all the time" I then mentioned to him about the issue with it, and what i have done to resolve the issue, and where I am with it at this point. The owner first commented me on a "good job" on what I have done thus far, and "most folks don't know that much about the marine cooling systems,possible causes of milky oil" ect, ect. I asked about me bringing in the head for a magnaflux test, and mill..he said " sure I can do that for about $100.00 but if you have a crack, then I can repair it for a few dollars more, just remove the rocker arms and bring it in" .

I said ok I will do that if I need to...he said " if I were you i would test the manifold with city water, just get 2 mounting bolts longer than the end ones you have. Then you replace the 2 end manifold bolts with the 2 longer ones, and remove the remaining bolts, slide the manifold away from the head mating surface, block off the riser some how, and water pressure test. If the manifold is leaaking internally, then you will see the water coming into the ports, and if so then you have a bad manifold"

I then asked if he thinks the block maybe cracked? he said " could be if it froze, if it did, most likely in the oil gallerys, or outside of the block, but that would take a really hard long freeze, the blocks are pretty bullet proof, but on rare occasion can crack" . I mentioned that I pressure tested the entire cooling system including the head with 19.5 psi for more than 2 hrs, and it held it, so I proceeded to move forward with the investigation, and tear down...

He said " I probably would have done the same thing" . He asked me about the head. I said i ran a pressure test and had excellent compression.so I proceeded with the tear down..he said " that's good but if you would have done a compression leak down test you may not have had to remove the head" I said ....I was going to but decided to just do the tear down so i can have a look at everything...he said " now that you have a new head gasket I would go ahead and do a compression leak down test. It will let you know if you have a possible head leakage problem, warped head, ect"....." and bring in the head if and when you want too we will inspect it". I asked about magnafluxing the block he said " we can do that too, however you would have to strip it down, clean it, and drop it of, and that is quite a but more money to do the test, then if it is ok, you will have to buy new cam, cam bearings , ect,ect, and before you know it you got $ 400.00 in to it " that is all we could talk about in the amount of time I had to spend there.

Well, I am at the point where I will re-test the cooling system again, the manifold, compression leak down test, and go from there. I will take the head into his shop for work if I need too. If I get to the point where i feel I have exhausted all these efforts to find the water intrusion...I will either stop this project, and sell parts off it or sell the entire engine as a whole, or I will do a something else with my situation.

I hope that machine shop owner knows what he is talking about....I know we all have our own opinions on things

My wife knows that i don't give up easily on anything, most everything I have worked on I have repaired with great success, but the marine engine saltwater cooling is a different animal, and it is now starting to make sense to me. I am no professional mechanic nor do I claim to be one, that is why I belong to forums, of different interest

 

[fishrdan]

Re: 1993 Mercruiser 3.0 new to me, with major problems, Not Running, Water mixed with

I will say that i did a water pressure test incorrectly on Saturday. I plugged up the rubber exhaust boot and turned on the city water, allowing water to back up into the head, and valves, a lot of water went into the open valves. I had a lot of water on top of the pistons, had to remove the plugs, blow out all the cylinders, then remove all the engine oil, and water which is what is seen in the pics

Was water in the oil after putting the engine back together and running the engine, before doing this ^^^?

 

[saltybutwet]

Re: 1993 Mercruiser 3.0 new to me, with major problems, Not Running, Water mixed with

Was water in the oil after putting everything back together and then running the engine, before doing this ^^^?

I started to notice the new oil that I put into the engine started to turn a vary light milky look to it, after running the engine several times before this boop of a pressure test.I did on Saturday run the engine for 2 hrs straight, only letting it idle a few times, during that time. I then let the engine cool down some, and checked the oil level, still on the full mark, no changes in the oil level on the dip, until i did that boop pressure test. i done this pressure test before, but with manifold off, only testing the block, head, cooling passages with air

 

[aerobat]

Re: 1993 Mercruiser 3.0 new to me, with major problems, Not Running, Water mixed with

My wife knows that i don't give up easily on anything

i like it !

present your head at the machine shop. when you read deeply you will find out the 3.0 tends to freeze crack on the outside below the exhaust / intake ports but still holds internal - you may have luck . some other engines ( e.g 4.3 V6 ) crack mostly internal with a total loss.

focus on the head.

 

[saltybutwet]

Re: 1993 Mercruiser 3.0 new to me, with major problems, Not Running, Water mixed with

i like it !

present your head at the machine shop. when you read deeply you will find out the 3.0 tends to freeze crack on the outside below the exhaust / intake ports but still holds internal - you may have luck . some other engines ( e.g 4.3 V6 ) crack mostly internal with a total loss.

focus on the head.

Thank you! I have been doing a lot of research , and have read that many times.i have been doing extensive research on this, like i do when working on an unfamiliar vehicle someone wants me to repair

Hope i get lucky. I could use her

 

[wrench 3]

Re: 1993 Mercruiser 3.0 new to me, with major problems, Not Running, Water mixed with

If your head turns out to be OK, It might be worth checking out the price of a short block. But go directly to a rebuilder not to a marine supply.

 

[saltybutwet]

Re: 1993 Mercruiser 3.0 new to me, with major problems, Not Running, Water mixed with

If your head turns out to be OK, It might be worth checking out the price of a short block. But go directly to a rebuilder not to a marine supply.

thanks for the input
hope I don't have to put money in a short block, yet lol
but if I do find out I need one, I will just buy a good known block, and build my own engine.

 

[saltybutwet]

Re: 1993 Mercruiser 3.0 new to me, with major problems, Not Running, Water mixed with

update this evening

I ran the engine last night after changing the oil, and new filter, for about 20 minutes.

I shut the engine down and let it set overnight. I got home and decided to pull the plugs, wanted to see if water was in the cylinders, 1 & 4 cylinders dry, cylinder 2&3, piston top looked wet, right in the middle of the top of the piston. I thought ok possible water dripping from the ports of the manifold into the 2&3 exhaust ports. I needed to see what was going on.

I decided to remove all the manifold bolts, except for the 2 end ones, so I could slide the manifold out away from the head, far enough to maybe see the ports of the manifold, and head. I did this to investigate, and possible see which port may have what I think is some water entering the head, and dripping on thp of those 2 piston tops.

I saw 2 wet manifold ports, and 2 wet head ports, which are intake ports for 2&3 cylinders directly under the carburetor.I think I have a leaking carburetor needle, and seat, at this point. I put a shop paper towel on the end of a flat head screw driver and pushed it down between the head, and manifold hoping the paper towel will touch the wet spot, so i can determine if it is gas, or water...it was gas, so I moved on to something else

I then decided to remove the riser from the manifold and this is what I saw ( see pic below). I haven't ran the engine today at all, and this could be condensation, however looks like more water pooling possible from a cracked manifold, or riser
I still have the manifold pulled away isolated from the head, and will pressure test it, and keep my fingers crossed that this is the cause of my water intrusion into the engine. I havent figured out how to test the riser by itself yet, but the gasket mating surface could cause water to enter this exhaust passage also, am I correct?....opinion please, and thank you!

same pic without the notes

 

[fishrdan]

Re: 1993 Mercruiser 3.0 new to me, with major problems, Not Running, Water mixed with

Did you ever acetone test the manifold?

The botched pressure testing of the manifold/block (garden hose) could have filled the manifold like that, would take a while to burn off the much water.

Though........ When I had a cracked manifold, if looked exactly the same as your pic, bottom of exhaust passage flooded with water...

How did the riser-manifold gasket look, leaking?

 

[saltybutwet]

Re: 1993 Mercruiser 3.0 new to me, with major problems, Not Running, Water mixed with

Did you ever acetone test the manifold?

The botched pressure testing of the manifold/block (garden hose) could have filled the manifold like that, would take a while to burn off the much water.

Though........ When I had a cracked manifold, if looked exactly the same as your pic, bottom of exhaust passage flooded with water...

How did the riser-manifold gasket look, leaking?

well, I haven't acetone tested the manifold yet.

The botched pressure test I did, required me to remove that manifold, and get all residual water out of it, re-install it, remove all the milky oil, before the bottom end started to rust. I then added new oil and filter, started and ran the eng for about 15-20 minutes
So that water in the manifold was found after the botched water pressurr test

I will pressure test the manifold separate from the head, and cooling system, with air...see if I got any leaks ( I thought about the acetone test but that stuff is expensive) and can't find any hard evidence that suggest it works?

the manifold gasket riser was new when I put it all back together, however now after heat, it is fried

thanks for the help

 

[fishrdan]

Re: 1993 Mercruiser 3.0 new to me, with major problems, Not Running, Water mixed with

I thought about the acetone test but that stuff is expensive and can't find any hard evidence that suggest it works?

With air you'll have to figure out a way to seal off where the riser bolts to the manifold, can be done, but not easy. With acetone, just fill'er up and watch for leaks. Acetone isn't that expensive, $15-20 for a gallon isn't too bad in the grand scheme of getting the engine running again. With that amount of water in the oil (looks pretty diluted to me) it may not be the manifold, but I'd rather verify if is/isn't the manifold. If not the manifold, you're looking at the head or block :faint2:

Re-torquing the head is suggested after the first head/cool cycle, and maybe that would seal up a leaky head gasket, worth a try I guess....