1993 V4 90hp Johnson Won't Turn Over

[cleve]

Background:
Went to lake yesterday and had trouble starting engine, as I have a few times since I bought boat. Think I've been flooding it by opening fast idle wide open, pumping bubble a lot, and constantly pushing the key primer.
I spun the engine to where the battery (battery wasn't fully charged to begin with, I'm an idiot) lost juice and eventually all I had was a click, then nothing. Came back home, put chargers on two different batteries overnight.

This morning with two different fully charged batteries, I still only get a solenoid click. I tapped on the starter, spun by hand, and it did try to turn once with key, but only 1 revolution maybe. Took starter off and hooked to battery on bench top and it spun like crazy, so I'm thinking it's good. While I had it off, I disconnected and cleaned all cables and terminals on starter and solenoid, even the battery ends.
Still nothing. Can't make starter spin while mounted, even with direct battery power. When key is turned, voltmeter shows 13.2V at both terminals on solenoid and starter terminal, so I'm getting juice to starter, right? It seems like I've got a bad cable or poor contact somewhere, but they're all shiny and tight now.
Any ideas? Why would starter spin on bench, but not mounted with voltage definitely getting to it?

 

[ondarvr]

The starters can die quickly when the they get overheated from continuous cranking, and it gets worse when the battery is low, the solenoid can also be damaged, so you have a couple things to look at. New starters don't cost much, but rebuilding is even cheaper, just depends on your skills and desires.

 

[interalian]

Yeah, overheating the starter tends to cook the insulation off the armature. Tear it apart and make sure the resistance between the shaft and windings is infinite.

 

[Fed]

When key is turned, voltmeter shows 13.2V at both terminals on solenoid and starter terminal, so I'm getting juice to starter, right?

Measure the Voltage between the starter motor positive stud and the starter motor case when you turn the key to start.
If you get 13.2 Volts then the starter motor has in internal fault. (Open Circuit)

 

[Baylinerchuck]

Same exact motor as you. I had an issue with a starter. The starter on mine would not spin the motor fast enough to develop the rpms needed for spark. My point is, these starters are small in size and can fail if overheated during excessive starts. A failing starter can act fine when not under load.

Also, you shouldn't have to use the enrichener when the motor is already warm. First start of the day, yes.

 

[oldboat1]

Good idea to check the grounds as well.

 

[jakedaawg]

might get your batterys load tested. Any parts store does it free usually.

 

[cleve]

Same exact motor as you. I had an issue with a starter. The starter on mine would not spin the motor fast enough to develop the rpms needed for spark. My point is, these starters are small in size and can fail if overheated during excessive starts. A failing starter can act fine when not under load.

Also, you shouldn't have to use the enrichener when the motor is already warm. First start of the day, yes.

Agree on the slow starter. Its always sounded sluggish and made me question the battery.

 

[cleve]

Are we all in agreement that the starter is shot?
If so, I'm going to take it to a local guy and see if he can reman it. Or should I just buy a new one?

 

[ondarvr]

Having someone rebuild it may cost as much as a new one, so check first.

​And you should inspect it first, plus recheck everything else.

 

[cleve]

Having someone rebuild it may cost as much as a new one, so check first.

​And you should inspect it first, plus recheck everything else.

Ok, I know a guy who rebuilds starters, alternators, etc. I'll see what he says.
I'm definitely not an expert on electric motors.
Looks like a new one is $75-90 on the web. Sound about right?

 

[ondarvr]

That price sounds right.

 

[Baylinerchuck]

Ok, I know a guy who rebuilds starters, alternators, etc. I'll see what he says.
I'm definitely not an expert on electric motors.
Looks like a new one is $75-90 on the web. Sound about right?

Yes, that sounds right. I need to buy one for my 85hp before I sell it. In my opinion, it's better to buy new. Last time I checked, the cost for parts and labor was more than new.

 

[oldboat1]

When living in Maryland, I became kind of an expert in starters (mostly inboards) -- rebuild shops and buying replacements, that is. I figured it was beyond my abilities to disassemble and test or fix them. That was wrong.

A local shop is a good choice. I also liked dealing with ARCO -- good products and good customer service. But I now take them apart and at least clean them. Brush replacement is easy.

I found that getting armatures rewound can be a problem, particularly if odd sizes (like some of my older outboards). I was told there are only a couple of sources left for this lost art, largely because demand is gone (cheaper replacement starters).

Anyway, if battery and connection issues are ruled out, pull the starter apart and at least inspect and clean it. Check resistance as Interalian indicated above.

 

[Fed]

Are we all in agreement that the starter is shot?

Nope, it works on the bench so you'd have to think it's OK.
Test the Voltage between the starter positive stud & the starter case, my bet it's low or non existent.

 

[cleve]

Nope, it works on the bench so you'd have to think it's OK.
Test the Voltage between the starter positive stud & the starter case, my bet it's low or non existent.

Already taken it back off, but it did spin nicely on bench yesterday. Agree on the bench working must be OK, but it will only sometimes attempt to spin mounted on engine. I'm going to replace solenoid also. After that, power cables and ends, who knows? I hate throwing parts at stuff because I can't find a definitive problem.
I don't know what else it could be. Followed the steps in the manual and it said to check starter.
Seems like a ground issue somewhere, but I can't find it. I've got battery voltage at the solenoid and starter terminal when turning key?

 

[racerone]

They spin on the bench because there is no WORK to do.---------Not the same as turning a V-4 motor at 300 RPM.---------Why not take the starter apart and do the simple ohm check.----------Then and only then will you know what to do / check next.--------Very easy to work on those starters

 

[Fed]

They spin on the bench because there is no WORK to do.

So it should spin on the motor at least until the Bendix engages.

I've got battery voltage at the solenoid and starter terminal when turning key?

But are you measuring the Voltage between the right places?

Test the Voltage between the starter positive stud & the starter case

 

[jakedaawg]

once again, have you load tested the battery/s? Fully charged means nothing really...

 

[oldboat1]

Jump starting is a low tech version of what Fed suggests. If you can spin the motor easily from your truck's battery using standard jumper cables, the starter isn't shorted -- and presumably is healthy enough to start the engine. Connect the positive jumper to the stud, and the negative cable to the starter bracket.

Plugs in for this -- want the compression. Don't overheat the starter, but satisfy yourself that it's easily cranking the motor at a proper rate for starting.