1996 celebrity 190 deck/stringer repair

[aldfaa]

This winter I am replacing the rotten deck and stringers on my 1996 Celebrity. I purchased this boat this summer, having known the previous owner and boat history for the last 10 years. It was in a garage that time used only once or twice per year. Due to this I am shocked at the condition the deck and stringers are in.

Started tonight by taking up the carpet and starting to remove deck/foam and stringers. Looks like I will be taking it to about 4" above the ski locker as all the wood in this area looks great.



Sorry I don't have any structure pictures as the batteries died. Foam was wet and stringers and ribs were just mush.
The plan is to rebuild ribs/stringers/deck. Then Gelcoat the deck and install snap in carpet.
Couple of questions,
(1) I plan on installing marine 3/4 ply but what should the stringers and ribs be made from?
(2) should I use PL to attach the deck or screws with 3m 4200 sealant?
(3) what types of fiberglass do I need for tabing ect? I plan on using polyester resin. IS CSM good to go for the tabing and wrap then 6oz cloth ontop of that on the Deck?

I will get some better pictures in the next couple of days of the under deck structure and rot.

 

[aldfaa]

Re: 1996 celebrity 190 deck/stringer repair

Do I need to use marine ply or is standard exterior grade AC ply acceptable?

 

[Bondo]

Re: 1996 celebrity 190 deck/stringer repair

1) I plan on installing marine 3/4 ply but what should the stringers and ribs be made from?
(2) should I use PL to attach the deck or screws with 3m 4200 sealant?
(3) what types of fiberglass do I need for tabing ect? I plan on using polyester resin. IS CSM good to go for the tabing and wrap then 6oz cloth ontop of that on the Deck?

Do I need to use marine ply or is standard exterior grade AC ply acceptable?

Ayuh,... I usually use 1/2" Cdx for decking, covered with a layer of glass, it's Plenty stiff enough,...
I use 1/2" or 3/4" Cdx for stringers, 'n bulkheads, also glassed over...

Csm is for a resin rich area betwenn layers of glass,... Strength comes from the Glass, not the mat...

Personally,.. I glass cover my panels,..
No reason at All to waste money on Marine rated plywood....

 

[Yacht Dr.]

Re: 1996 celebrity 190 deck/stringer repair

(1) I plan on installing marine 3/4 ply but what should the stringers and ribs be made from?
(2) should I use PL to attach the deck or screws with 3m 4200 sealant?
(3) what types of fiberglass do I need for tabing ect? I plan on using polyester resin. IS CSM good to go for the tabing and wrap then 6oz cloth ontop of that on the Deck?

I will get some better pictures in the next couple of days of the under deck structure and rot.

1. Marine ply is the best..there are more plys in MG ply..you can get away with properly coated/treated ply.. not cdx..

2. You should use anything from nothing to 4200 depending on your length of deck..

3. Csm is good for your tabbing..or decking..just as long as you use enough..

Bondo..what "glass" are you refering to ? 1708 ? biax..woven..you didnt say .. but are you suggesting you can lam Any Glass without having a bond glass of mat ? ..

YD.

 

[Yacht Dr.]

Re: 1996 celebrity 190 deck/stringer repair

Oh yea.. CDX...

http://www.insidewoodworking.com/osd-and-cdx-plywood.html

Search for yourself m8..

YD.

 

[Bondo]

Re: 1996 celebrity 190 deck/stringer repair

Bondo..what "glass" are you refering to ? 1708 ? biax..woven..you didnt say .. but are you suggesting you can lam Any Glass without having a bond glass of mat ? ..

Nope,... Not at All,... I left it generic because of the variables possible...

"Glass" that builds Strength is most any Fabric. ei; Structured, not matting...
If using poly resin, of course mat is needed between lay-ups...
If using epoxy, skip the mat...

My Biggest Point is that for 99% of the rebuildin' going on here at iboats,...
Hi-dollar Marine rated plywood is a Waste of money, considering the hulls being worked on, 'n the Expectations of longevity for the builds.....

Properly glassed, 'n sealed, plain ole Cdx will outlast poorly glassed, 'n sealed Marine rated plywood by decades...

 

[Yacht Dr.]

Re: 1996 celebrity 190 deck/stringer repair

What "glass" are you refering too m8 ? biax ? woven ? 1708 ?

It easy to post..but you might want to help out a little more then just " glass"... remember the folks here need to know the difference between epoxy and poly..and what epoxy..and what glass they should use..

I dont see a 99 epoxy syndrom here..and if I did I would say you epoxy guys are out of your minds for everything repaired..

Epoxy is expensive...hard to work with..and simply not needed...

I suggest tools and materials... I tell how to work with it... Alot of post just suggest things.. I say how..

Most just say use this and that.....

YD.

 

[aldfaa]

Re: 1996 celebrity 190 deck/stringer repair

I got to looking online and was starting to think about using epoxy resin due to the strength. I have the expectation that this boat will be solid for at least the next 10-15 years. Will poly be a good choice for this?

I was wanting to gelcoat the deck and do snap in carpet but have seen that gelcoat isn't compatible with the epoxy.

Is there a better option for finnishing the deck? I am looking for something quality.

 

[Bondo]

Re: 1996 celebrity 190 deck/stringer repair

Will poly be a good choice for this?

Ayuh,... Polyester will work just Fine, it's what your boat is made of...

Just be sure to use matting between layers...

 

[MTribe08]

Re: 1996 celebrity 190 deck/stringer repair

My deck/stringer restore on a similar boat is in my signature at the bottom of this post. If I had to do the same job a hundred times, I wouldn't change a thing. The folks on this board were an amazing help and It turned out exactly how I had envisioned it when I started. Epoxy IMO is completely unnecessary and a poly Job done correctly (which will be WAAAY better than factory) will last you for a long time.

I, like you, was completely shocked at the condition of my deck and stringers considering the otherwise fantastic shape of the boat. I did find many holes in my deck where foam was injected and the factory just decided they didn't need to be glassed over..so an easy entry for water. Maybe the plug was left in at some point and the boat was flooded with Rain water..I really don't know.

Bond-O suggested to me one time to drill "limber" holes in the stringers running the length of the boat, so that when water gets under the deck, and they say it eventually will, it can find its way to the center and back to the bilge.

But the best decision I could have made was Gel-Coating the deck and installing snap in carpet. The Gel-Coat is tough as nails, and the snap in carpet completely took my boat to another level. I feel like I have a brand new boat now. Easy cleaning and just really nice looking IMO.

Good luck.

 

[aldfaa]

Re: 1996 celebrity 190 deck/stringer repair

MTribe08 I am glad to hear the gelcoat is holding up. Your rebuild thread has been the motivation for this phase of the project.

Plan on going over to the shop tonight and snap some more pictures of the boat and sketch up some dimensional drawings of the stringers and such.

Getting ready to order materials from UScomposits but I am a little unclear on the layup schedule does this sound right?

Tab in the stingers with 1.5 oz CSM. first tab will go up the stinger 3" and down the hull 3" followed with a second tab to go up 5" then do two layups of 1708 Couple of questions here
(1) does the csm or the mat side go towards the stringers?
(2) Does this go over both sides and the top as one piece or do I do both sides overlaping the tabing and leave the top uncovered at the phase?

Then cap with CSM with a 3" overlap down the hull followed with a second cap overlapped to 5" with the final cap to 7"

Does this sound about right or way wrong?

 

[aldfaa]

Re: 1996 celebrity 190 deck/stringer repair

Didn't do any work to her tonight but did take some additional pictures and sketched out some measurements. I am very greatfull that I have a awesome brother in law that is allowing me to have the boat in his shop this winter. On top of that he will be busting his rear doing the repair as well.
Here is the engine compartment, the decking here had a hole in. All the wood here just pulled out by hand.



same side up at the helm:


Friday I plan on taking a day off work (Work as a maintenance supervisor for a plant that produces telecommunication cable.) And will be picking up the wood. Then plan to finish removal Saturday/Sunday

 

[aldfaa]

Re: 1996 celebrity 190 deck/stringer repair

So is the above ayup schedule close or way off? I am alittle confused on materials and process to tab and glass the stringers.

 

[MTribe08]

Re: 1996 celebrity 190 deck/stringer repair

MTribe08 I am glad to hear the gelcoat is holding up. Your rebuild thread has been the motivation for this phase of the project.

Plan on going over to the shop tonight and snap some more pictures of the boat and sketch up some dimensional drawings of the stringers and such.

Getting ready to order materials from UScomposits but I am a little unclear on the layup schedule does this sound right?

Tab in the stingers with 1.5 oz CSM. first tab will go up the stinger 3" and down the hull 3" followed with a second tab to go up 5" then do two layups of 1708 Couple of questions here
(1) does the csm or the mat side go towards the stringers?
(2) Does this go over both sides and the top as one piece or do I do both sides overlaping the tabing and leave the top uncovered at the phase?

Then cap with CSM with a 3" overlap down the hull followed with a second cap overlapped to 5" with the final cap to 7"

Does this sound about right or way wrong?

You are doing more Fiberglass work on the stringers than I did, but for what you are doing, the process sounds fine. I went up the sides, overlapping a couple times, then covered the tops, overlapping the tabs a couple times.

 

[BillP]

Re: 1996 celebrity 190 deck/stringer repair

Nope,... Not at All,... I left it generic because of the variables possible...

"Glass" that builds Strength is most any Fabric. ei; Structured, not matting...
If using poly resin, of course mat is needed between lay-ups...
If using epoxy, skip the mat...

My Biggest Point is that for 99% of the rebuildin' going on here at iboats,...
Hi-dollar Marine rated plywood is a Waste of money, considering the hulls being worked on, 'n the Expectations of longevity for the builds.....

Properly glassed, 'n sealed, plain ole Cdx will outlast poorly glassed, 'n sealed Marine rated plywood by decades...

You are following incorrect myths about mat and ignoring the engineering principles for it's use. To say mat isn't structural is misleading. Mat provides better adhesion (peel strenth between laminations) for cloths whether the resin is poly or epoxy. It provides a stiffer panel than when using only woven cloth. If you omit mat and use only cloth the panel will require massive laminations (more labor, more laminations and more weight) to get the same stiffness. Or the extra structure for stiffness has to come from more framing, etc. Mat and woven are an engineered system and compliment each other...it isn't always about tensile strengh (which is the common mentality of the all cloth and no mat group).

 

[Bondo]

Re: 1996 celebrity 190 deck/stringer repair

You are following incorrect myths about mat and ignoring the engineering principles for it's use. To say mat isn't structural is misleading. Mat provides better adhesion (peel strenth between laminations) for cloths whether the resin is poly or epoxy. It provides a stiffer panel than when using only woven cloth. If you omit mat and use only cloth the panel will require massive laminations (more labor, more laminations and more weight) to get the same stiffness. Or the extra structure for stiffness has to come from more framing, etc. Mat and woven are an engineered system and compliment each other...it isn't always about tensile strengh (which is the common mentality of the all cloth and no mat group).

Ayuh,.... I guess that's why I've never had a repair fail....

Long time no see....

 

[aldfaa]

Re: 1996 celebrity 190 deck/stringer repair

Plan on ripping the remaining floor out this weekend. Can I pop the hull cap off with the stringers removed?

The deck use to have a 3'x3' removable cover over the gas tank which was screwed into the frames around the tank. What is everyones thoughts on this, should I put it back in or just have a solid deck with the round access cover?

I seen a few posts were plywood platforms were made to support the seat pedastals and to server as a anchoring place for the battery tray. What is the best way to support these platforms to the deck?

 

[MTribe08]

Re: 1996 celebrity 190 deck/stringer repair

Plan on ripping the remaining floor out this weekend. Can I pop the hull cap off with the stringers removed?

I didn't take the cap off, but I assume so.

The deck use to have a 3'x3' removable cover over the gas tank which was screwed into the frames around the tank. What is everyones thoughts on this, should I put it back in or just have a solid deck with the round access cover?

I decided not to put the removable cover back in. I just put in an access cover to get to the sending unit. I know for sure, that old cover contributed to the rotting of my stringers.

I seen a few posts were plywood platforms were made to support the seat pedastals and to server as a anchoring place for the battery tray. What is the best way to support these platforms to the deck?

I did all of the above to eliminated having to screw anything directly into my deck again. Any time you screw into your deck, you have a possible entry for water. I assume when you say "support" the platforms to the deck, you mean "secure". I secured my seat base by first setting it a Poly Resin "peanut butter" mix. Then I coated the bare wood first with a coat of Resin, then layed cloth over it and overlapped it on to the deck. With the Battery and trim motor platforms, I just PL'd them first then glassed over them. They aren't going anywhere, and I didn't use a single screw into the deck.

This page has some pics/descriptions of what I did...maybe you've already seen them.
http://forums.iboats.com/showthread.php?t=372220&page=4

 

[aldfaa]

Re: 1996 celebrity 190 deck/stringer repair

Well, did some more work today. Got most of the strings/ribs/foam out from the windshield back. Tore out the gas tank compartment and ski locker. Found rot in the engine mounts so I will be tearing into that. Of course I am hoping the transom is fine, but I am sure it isn't.

The stringers were ply with the except for the rear ones in the bilge area which were 2x4.

I have seen the threads on using PT vs standard wood for stringers. I plan on using a standard 2x4 encapsulated in poly unless someone says this is a bad idea.

Starting to think about drainage. I would like to use the 2 part foam but am warried about water as most of the old foam was waterlogged. I seen a thread were someone mentioned cutting a poly pipe length wise and drilling holes in it. They then covered it with paper mache and foamed over the top of it. Does this sound okay or is there a better way?

 

[aldfaa]

Re: 1996 celebrity 190 deck/stringer repair

Shown below is the progress to date. Spent a day cutting out the old stringers. Used a oscilliting multifunction tool from sears. Worked wonders, it was slow going but very easy to control, wouldn't want to tackle the job again without it.

Found rot in the motor mounts so spent a morning taking them out. They were in decent shape all things considered. The transom seems to be dry and solid so I will leave it in place.I may regret this as part of me really wants to pull it to.

Floor coming up.


just about have all the old stuff out


Trash can full of rotted wood


Got all the old stringers and glass ground out, ski locker floor cut and front bulkhead. Time to call uscomposits and place a order!