1st post! water pump question on Mercruiser

[Johnjb7]

My 1st post here so here goes. I have a 2004 SeaRay 220 Sundeck with a Bravo III Mercruiser that now has 220 hours. SeaRay service schedule calls for stern drive service every 100 hours. The 1st stern drive service at 100 hours identified a broken O ring which dealership fixed and there were no problems. Now I have it in for the 2nd stern drive service and I specified to have the impellars replaced and now the dealership has indicated that the ENTIRE water pump needs to be replaced - for a boat with only 220 hours and never a hint of a overheating problem!? Any thoughts about this since I am skeptical. (And there are times I can not tell the diference between impellar replacement and water pump replacement on the net.) Thanks!!

 

[Don S]

Re: 1st post! water pump question on Mercruiser

Why was it neccessary to replace the pump. Was it leaking, the bearings out of it? What?
Also you mentioned you have it in for drive service. you do realize you do not have a raw water pump in a Bravo drive, it's engine mounted. They are also brass, so will have some wavy surfaces. How bad, depends on the type water and beaches you frequent.

 

[HT32BSX115]

Re: 1st post! water pump question on Mercruiser

If you ran that boat on the trailer for only what you think is a short period of time, (dry) you may have cooked the pump impeller.

I don't know how you could hurt the housing though unless you sucked up a BUNCH of sand or something.....My housing is plastic. When I got mine, the previous owner had ran it dry (more than once I think) and it pretty much melted the housing. I replaced the housing and impeller(which was still intact).

I also found remnants of a previous impeller failure(s) crammed into the oil cooler.


Don't run it dry for even a few seconds!


Cheers,


Rick

 

[Johnjb7]

Re: 1st post! water pump question on Mercruiser

Thanks Don. Yes I know the water pump is engine mounted on the Bravo III and I have never had the boat on a beach or anything like that, the boat stays on a lift, and I boat on the Chesapeake Bay. I recieved a phone call earlier today from the SeaRay service department asking to order the whole new pump at the tune of $337 in lieu of the scheduled $45 impellar replacement. I think I need some more definitive explanation for this repair. Unless by not replacing the impellars until 240 hours caused the problem.

 

[Don S]

Re: 1st post! water pump question on Mercruiser

Are you in salt water? That will do some serious wear on a brass pump. Especially if it isn't flushed after pulling it out of the water and allowed to dry.
If you have it out on a lift, it should be flushed with fresh water immediatly.

 

[Johnjb7]

Re: 1st post! water pump question on Mercruiser

Don, the Chesapeake Bay is I believe salt water (geez am I having a brain lapse on this one) - and when I pull in to the lift and raise the boat, I hose off the hull, sides, deck but I have never flushed the engine on this use. I would not know how to do this on the 5.0 Mercruiser Bravo III? Oh and BTW, I have never started the engine out of the water.

 

[Don S]

Re: 1st post! water pump question on Mercruiser

Don, the Chesapeake Bay is I believe salt water (geez am I having a brain lapse on this one) -

I'm on the left coast and have never even seen the Chesapeake Bay, but yea, I think it's salty. Without flushing, you may very well have a damaged pump.
You should be able to run the engine on muffs, assuming the water pickup is in the drive, could be done even if a thruhull, but that is something only you would know. If in doubt, ask the marina where you have the boat, they can check it very easily if the do maintenance work. Then you would know for sure instead of a bunch of WAG's off the internet.

 

[BAYLINER185]

Re: 1st post! water pump question on Mercruiser

Well the onlything I can think of is we are talking about the circulating water pump NOT the raw atw pick up pump right?

The salt water is problably whats caused what ever the problem is. As Don S says when you bring your boat in you should problably flush the motor as it will also flush all the manifolds and water passages and help prevent corosion while th eboat sits after a run.

even though you havent beached the boat sand and crap can get picked up and grind an impellar or or get stuck in the circulator pump.

 

[TilliamWe]

Re: 1st post! water pump question on Mercruiser

If you end up replacing the entire pump, please get the old parts, photograph them well, and post them here. I'd sure like to see what saltwater does to those brass pumps that requires more than a new housing and an impeller. I know the shaft seal can go bad and the pump can corrode, so I'd be interested to see if that is the issue.

BTW, I know that the brass pump is supposed to be an improvement, but the old (painted black) pump with the plastic housing and replaceable wear plates was just fine. Why did Mercruiser change it???

 

[TilliamWe]

Re: 1st post! water pump question on Mercruiser

Well the onlything I can think of is we are talking about the circulating water pump NOT the raw atw pick up pump right?

No, they are talking about the engine mounted raw water pump on his Bravo.

 

[Johnjb7]

Re: 1st post! water pump question on Mercruiser

Well I went by the SeaRay service department who has been doing the service work on the stern drive. They showed me the brass water pump (engine mounted on a Mercruiser Bravo III) and the diagnosis was on the money - they showed the deep circular grooves and "scatches" in the seal which they should be smooth and flat - which would pretty much chew up a new impellar pretty quickly - sorry I did not take any pics to post. They said this happens often on the softer brass housing. The reason for this for a Mercruiser Bravo III that is only 4 years old with 240 hours is firm - salt water - not being flushed - which I never do. To do this I would have to be a contortionist while the boat is on the lift and me bending underneath the swim deck. The best advice provided to me - have a water flush assembly installed - about $640 dollars. They said that if you are not religeous about flushing the drive and the engine, you will eventaully have bigger problems than the water pump - manifold components will go next to the tune of a lot more money. I don't know much about the water flush assembly but I guess that is my next investment - just not right now.

 

[TilliamWe]

Re: 1st post! water pump question on Mercruiser

Well I went by the SeaRay service department who has been doing the service work on the stern drive. They showed me the brass water pump (engine mounted on a Mercruiser Bravo III) and the diagnosis was on the money - they showed the deep circular grooves and "scatches" in the seal which they should be smooth and flat - . .

On the old pump, there was a steel wear plate that got gouges in them but could be replaced. (after you flipped it over once!) Also, the case would get them too, and it can be replaced for about $50. The whole rebuild kit from Sierra is just about $50.
Sorry you have the inferior pump that makes Mercruyiser more money. At $300+ a pop, I'd figure out a way to flush it. Cause the manifolds will cost you 3x that when they go bad.

 

[liquidlew]

Re: 1st post! water pump question on Mercruiser

Are you kidding me?! 240 hrs. in salt water and never flushed engine or drive? And only the water pump is toast (that you know of)? Amazing! Me thinks it might be time to check risers/manifolds etc. I would definitely have that flush assembly installed STAT!

 

[HT32BSX115]

Re: 1st post! water pump question on Mercruiser

Yeah,

I am sort of at a loss here too I guess,

I replaced my whole pump (housing/impeller/etc) for about $50 or so. I also thought the Brass(bronze?) pump was the better of the two.

I also assumed that your Searay has a (full) closed cooling system?

If it doesn't, you may be replacing everything "under the hood" about the time your manifolds/risers fail if you're not flushing EVERY TIME after salt water use...

BTW, I know that the brass pump is supposed to be an improvement, but the old (painted black) pump with the plastic housing and replaceable wear plates was just fine. Why did Mercruiser change it???

 

[chiefalen]

Re: 1st post! water pump question on Mercruiser

on my other boat btw has a 1976 evinrude 70 hp i flushed it everytime and it has only been in fresh water never touched saltwater.it looks new inside and out.my current boat gets flushed everytime and it goes in saltwater.original engine mounted pump.u have to flush everytime.i never have used saltaway but i think u should.just to see if u can prolong ya manifolds.and the risers i wonder what they look like.i had to replace riser.but it was a 19 year old boat always flushed i know the original owner whoem i bought it from.and it was never used maybe 50 hours in 19 years maybe less.you better have the manifolds and risers checked.good luck

 

[Don S]

Re: 1st post! water pump question on Mercruiser

His raw water pump is not like the older Bravos, or Alphas or anything else. The are big, expensive, ugly, hard to work on, things (because I'm not allowed to call them a POS.)
There are a few newer boats that takes about an hour to change the raw water pump impeller. Doesn't sound to bad untill you realize you have to remove the engine first to get to it because of all the stuff on and around it, plus being stuck down in a hole. You know the kind of job that makes the mechanics look bad, but it's not us. It those stupid design engineers that don't have a clue what maintenance is.

 

[Johnjb7]

Re: 1st post! water pump question on Mercruiser

And as a further anecdote, the SeaRay dealer's staff told us we didn't need to flush out the engines on the SeaRay Sundeck 220 because a raw water cooled engine will be thermostated at 140 deg F. This should be low enough to keep the salt in solution and allow it to just flow thru the engine. There is NOTHING in the SeaRay or Mercruiser Owners guide about performaing this flushing. I am in line with 4 other SeaRay Sundeck 240s 260s in my marina and I have NEVER at any time seen any of my marina neighbors "flush" out thier systems. But I will inquire about this. Nonetheless I have my corroded water pump as a testament to the problem and I will try to research and determine how to flush out the engine and outdrive without the flush assembly.

 

[Don S]

Re: 1st post! water pump question on Mercruiser

I don't have a 2004 owners manual, but every manual I do have before 2004 and every manual I have after (2006 & 2008) all have in it that in salt water, the engine and drive should be flushed after each use. Might want to go back and re-read your manual.
Why your dealer said it's not neccessary sounds really stupid to me, 140? stat or not. In salt or brackish water, they get flushed after each use. That is just common knowledge, like putting on the brakes if you want to stop your car or truck.

 

[chiefalen]

Re: 1st post! water pump question on Mercruiser

is there a reason he can't use muffs on the drive unless its kept in the water.i never had a boat that was kept in the water always trailered.

 

[jeffkil]

Re: 1st post! water pump question on Mercruiser

Can this impellar be replaced with the boat in water?