2 axles no brakes

Lou C

Supreme Mariner
Joined
Nov 10, 2002
Messages
13,023
Re: 2 axles no brakes

Well the Subie is going to become my son's car, and he eventually wants a Whaler 13 sport, so I bet the Subie will tow it as long as it has brakes on the trailer...little brakes....but brakes all the same.....
 

Home Cookin'

Fleet Admiral
Joined
May 26, 2009
Messages
9,715
Re: 2 axles no brakes

Well the Subie is going to become my son's car, and he eventually wants a Whaler 13 sport, so I bet the Subie will tow it as long as it has brakes on the trailer...little brakes....but brakes all the same.....

Lou, I pulled a 13' whaler all over the place with a 1980 Subaru stawag no problem. Pulled it with an Opel too. You don't need--or typically put--brakes on a trailer for that boat.
 

jcchappy

Seaman Apprentice
Joined
Jun 12, 2012
Messages
44
Re: 2 axles no brakes

sunk_mustang__1_.jpg
I couldn't find the picture I was looking for. There is a picture i've seen somewhere on the net from the 50's or 60's showing a giant houseboat looking vessel being launched at a beach by an old station wagon. To the OP I launch my boat and retrieve it several times a weekend with my car. Its a 1991 rt4wd civic wagon 6 speed with super low range when I need it. But my boat is a 14X36 flat bottom john. Good luck in all your travels.
 

NYBo

Admiral
Joined
Oct 23, 2008
Messages
7,107
Re: 2 axles no brakes

I loaded my 1/2 ton F150 with 2000 lbs of top soil three times and drove 20 miles each time...
If your truck was made anytime in the past 3 decades or so, "1/2 ton" is a complete misnomer. Even my Dodge Dakota is rated to haul a 1800# load; I'll bet your F150 is rated for more.
 

maproy99

Petty Officer 1st Class
Joined
May 14, 2011
Messages
266
Re: 2 axles no brakes

I'm in NJ and tandem trailers here are common, I've owned more than a dozen that were built and sold with no provisions for brakes. The lightest was rated at 1,500 lbs, the heaviest at 6,400 lbs. The latter was built by Highland Trailer.
(I'd venture to guess that most older trailers don't have brakes). I've also owned more than 30 single axle trailers, most were in the 2,000 lb range but many were 3,500, rated, none had brakes or the provision for brakes on the axle tube.

my concern towing that boat on the road would be stopping, the road you were using would dictate my choices there. I tow 10 miles to the ramp, but most of the roads I run on are back roads and I rarely see any traffic. I have never once felt my truck couldn't stop the trailer in a safe distance, but I also wouldn't tow a boat at highway speeds. In most cases I'm doing only 25-30 MPH. The roads are just too rough and narrow in most cases to go any faster.

I drive an older Ford Ranger, its a 2 wheel drive truck with a four cylinder motor. Since it don't have anti-lock brakes, any panic stop, with or without a trailer results in a slide or rear wheel lock up, so in many cases the added tongue weight from the trailer actually helps it stop since there's more weight on the rear wheels. Without the trailer it just slides the back wheels in a hard stop, with the trailer it stops dead straight.

My biggest concern would be on the ramp, like my Ranger a Subaru isn't a very heavy vehicle, a wet, slimy ramp may make for an interesting retrieval experience. I've got a few ramps near me that are so slick and steep my truck slides backward even with an empty trailer, and a few ramps that are so shallow that I can back in till the front wheels get wet and never even get my boat wet 20' behind the truck. Those ramps are the 'NEW' army corps of engineer designed ramps at a few local lakes.

Brakes as stated many times above are highly recommended and most likely required but at least in my state the law isn't enforced.
(Not only that, I can't count how many times I've towed my boat to the ramp and completely forgot to bolt on my trailer license plate, I even got pulled over once in a spot check with no tag, they never said a word, never even looked at the trailer or boat).

Like an earlier post said, you could tow your boat with a garden tractor if you wanted too, its a rolling load and fairly easy to get rolling.
For those who wish to try launching a 19' cuddy cabin boat with a garden tractor, remember that garden tractors have little no brakes, believe me, they won't stop a boat on a ramp, I watched a guy dunk an older Sears tractor in a lake a few years ago, the panic look on his face was priceless, he ended up sitting in about 4' of water with his head and shoulders out of the water when it finally stopped. When he got off the tractor, the back tires floated and it drifted even farther back into the water. I and about 4 other guys jumped in to help and we were able to pull the tractor and boat into shallower water and tie it to the dock while someone unhooked the tractor and pulled the trailer ashore with a truck. So, while a garden tractor will pull it, it most likely won't stop it. In fact simply heading downhill could get you in a real situation. I use a garden tractor to park my boat, and its only a slight decline into my back yard, coming out of my yard is easy, but backing in is more of a controlled drag down the grass covered driveway in the back. Once I get outback, its fine. Its that 40 or so feet of slope alongside the house that's the killer.

I have this small john deer mower. 12hp. The motor has WAY too much torque. I use it to pull the boat out of my driveway, sharp 90 degree corner, then up a decent hill. About at 1/4 throttle the mower can pull the boat up that at full speed. If I slow down a tad I can go up the hill with it idling. I've always been tempted to try launching with this mower. And for stopping while backing up down hill, I hit the brakes, at full speed, wheels locked up and the front end went off the ground, the back of the mower stopped tilting back because it hit the tongue, and the boat stopped in a few inches from roughly 8 mph, while going down hill.
Now, I would probably add about 400 pounds of sandbags for extra traction the first time, but it could be done. (200 pounds of tongue weight takes 200 pounds off the front, just say my weight is 200 pounds, plus 400 pounds ballast would be 1,000 pounds on the rear tires.
Anyone else think it can be done?
 

Alwhite00

Master Chief Petty Officer
Joined
Apr 14, 2011
Messages
885
Re: 2 axles no brakes

Boat is 3140#. add 1200# for the trailer and #1000 for fuel and gear. that is 5340#. your towing capacity is 2700# with trailer brakes (1000# without trailer brakes). your over capacity PERIOD.

plus at the combined weight of 5340# you will need to add brakes.

X2 - Lot of weight for that rig.

LK
 

starcraftkid

Petty Officer 1st Class
Joined
Jul 5, 2010
Messages
238
Re: 2 axles no brakes

I have this small john deer mower. 12hp. The motor has WAY too much torque. I use it to pull the boat out of my driveway, sharp 90 degree corner, then up a decent hill. About at 1/4 throttle the mower can pull the boat up that at full speed. If I slow down a tad I can go up the hill with it idling. I've always been tempted to try launching with this mower. And for stopping while backing up down hill, I hit the brakes, at full speed, wheels locked up and the front end went off the ground, the back of the mower stopped tilting back because it hit the tongue, and the boat stopped in a few inches from roughly 8 mph, while going down hill.
Now, I would probably add about 400 pounds of sandbags for extra traction the first time, but it could be done. (200 pounds of tongue weight takes 200 pounds off the front, just say my weight is 200 pounds, plus 400 pounds ballast would be 1,000 pounds on the rear tires.
Anyone else think it can be done?

I watched a guy sink a John Deere 112 garden tractor trying to launch a 19' Wellcraft on a concrete ramp. He had pulled the boat out to do some work on it at the dock, then when he went to put it back in, he found he couldn't stop its rapid decent on the ramp. The minute the boat trailer went onto the ramp, it gained speed and splashed into the water. Dragging him and the tractor into about 3' of water. He was trying to stop the thing by dragging his feet and at the same time trying to keep the trailer going straight and not into the adjacent docks. He almost caught the corner of the first dock, if he had he'd have run one wheel of the trailer on the dock, the other in the water. That would have almost certainly upset the whole rig.
He went in deep enough to submerge and kill the motor. He tried the brakes but they were nothing more than a small band brake on the transaxle of the tractor, even if the wheels stopped on the tractor, the shear weight of the boat and trailer would have dragged him down the ramp anyhow. It don't take much to drag a garden tractor on a slick surface. Even a really big garden tractor is no more than about 1500lbs, and most have little to no brakes even when new, less after they've been well used and worn out and deemed for use a tow jockey.
 

jcchappy

Seaman Apprentice
Joined
Jun 12, 2012
Messages
44
Re: 2 axles no brakes

finally found that picture I was looking for while browsing through my phone, here it is nostalgia at its best.

2012-02-22 16.25.15.jpg
 

maproy99

Petty Officer 1st Class
Joined
May 14, 2011
Messages
266
Re: 2 axles no brakes

I watched a guy sink a John Deere 112 garden tractor trying to launch a 19' Wellcraft on a concrete ramp. He had pulled the boat out to do some work on it at the dock, then when he went to put it back in, he found he couldn't stop its rapid decent on the ramp. The minute the boat trailer went onto the ramp, it gained speed and splashed into the water. Dragging him and the tractor into about 3' of water. He was trying to stop the thing by dragging his feet and at the same time trying to keep the trailer going straight and not into the adjacent docks. He almost caught the corner of the first dock, if he had he'd have run one wheel of the trailer on the dock, the other in the water. That would have almost certainly upset the whole rig.
He went in deep enough to submerge and kill the motor. He tried the brakes but they were nothing more than a small band brake on the transaxle of the tractor, even if the wheels stopped on the tractor, the shear weight of the boat and trailer would have dragged him down the ramp anyhow. It don't take much to drag a garden tractor on a slick surface. Even a really big garden tractor is no more than about 1500lbs, and most have little to no brakes even when new, less after they've been well used and worn out and deemed for use a tow jockey.

Really it just comes down to physics.
But I would be willing to try. (As a safety precaution I would have the electric brakes ready to go to full power........ :D)
 

500dollar744ti

Senior Chief Petty Officer
Joined
Jul 23, 2012
Messages
691
Re: 2 axles no brakes

your car weighs less than your boat/trailer combo. towing that with a vehicle rated to tow half the weight and not having trailer brakes is a recipe for disaster in my opinion.

with functioning trailer brakes, you can probably get away with it but if you aren't using a class III weight distributing hitch i believe it's illegal.

can you use the car to pull the boat out of the water and park it off to the side? sure. towing it down a public road is a different story.

my boat/trailer 4400lbs, i picked it up from a guy who decided the brakes were unnecessary and instead of repairing them, cut the lines and called it a day.

towing it home with a ford f150 v8 was kind of scary, almost pushed us through an intersection stopping, we only had to go a few miles.

i installed a disc brakes on the trailer with a new actuator and boy do i feel safer, also the people around me are safer, let's not forget about them!
 
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