2000 225 Fuel Starved @ high RPM

[ezeke]

Re: 2000 225 Fuel Starved @ high RPM

So if I am getting the alarm (which I am) and after the alarm it needs a good ball pump (which it does) the air leak must be up stream of the VRO pump?

I have removed the antisiphon, run off a 6 gal tank, replaced in line filter,bypassed racor....all produce same result.

Readin the manual last noght about Power Pack failure and "multiple fire" at hig speed.....Could this case lean plug and alarm? Still have to test powerpack.

The vacuum switch for the fuel obstruction alarm is connected with the gasoline line before the fuel pump. It could be triggered by poor ventilation of the tank, by a partially clogged screen on the pickup, by too small, clogged or incorrect fuel filter, by too small fuel line or by primer bulb with too small fittings. In no case would I run a 225 with less than 3/8 lines and fittings.

Check with your dealer for primer bulb with largest openings.

I have never had a problem with the standard OMC/BRP full sized water separating filters, but I have had problems with 10 micron aftermarket filters.

BTW, my in-law pulled his tank before finding that the tank's vent screen on the hull was clogged from salt spray.

 

[thehermit]

Re: 2000 225 Fuel Starved @ high RPM

ezeke,

My boat is a newly restored 1974 SeaCraft. My tank is brand new. All lines are brand new. OMC new primer bulb (have swapped that and tested another). All lines are 3/8. The problem exists with main tank and 6 gallon tank.

I will say in both instances when I bypassed the racor it extended the run time before the problem (check engine light) came back.

I am making areangements to vacum test all of my new 3/8 lines. I also thought of inslatting a clear fuel supply line onto my problem carb/cyl to check for air.

Other than that I am still very puzzled.

HERMIT

 

[Faztbullet]

Re: 2000 225 Fuel Starved @ high RPM

Index the flywheel and check with timing light, this will show if pack or timer base is acting up and "double" firing or advanced firing.

 

[thehermit]

Re: 2000 225 Fuel Starved @ high RPM

Faz....any chance I can get you to explain this process a little more? I am getting the timing light out tommorow to test coils etc.
Hermit

 

[Faztbullet]

Re: 2000 225 Fuel Starved @ high RPM

You will need a piston stop tool or dial indicater to do this. Remove plugs and find TDC for each cylinder and mark it. Then measure to the left on the tooth part of flywheel 1-3/4 inch this will be 20 degrees timing and mark it. Have someone operate boat while you check timing , it should be steady on all cylinders, if that cylinder is jumping around and others steady check timer base, if all are jumping a round check center hub of flywheel to see if glue has broken lose as OMC had some problems with this.

 

[thehermit]

Re: 2000 225 Fuel Starved @ high RPM

Faz,

Well I vacum checked a buch of fuel lines...nothing

I marked up my flywheel like desrcibed. I ran in test tank and reved using throttle body link. All cyl seem not to make my marks jum around. I can only rev up minor in my tank.

I can get over the fact that when I have my alarm go off my fuel ball is empty. Other than switching the carb to see if the lean condition follows it I am fresh out of ideas.

HERMIT

 

[thehermit]

Re: 2000 225 Fuel Starved @ high RPM

OK,

My #4 cly was the problem child...SO I switched the #4 carb to #2.

Also I switched the #4 coil to #1.

I plan on taking for a ride this week to see if the lean condition follows either one of these...if I get an alarm I am usually able to pull plugs and see which cyl has been leaned.

...will report back soon.
Hermit out

 

[jonesg]

Re: 2000 225 Fuel Starved @ high RPM

Sounds like a plan, it should point to the problem.

Heard some guy caught a decent tuna just outside the canal last week, sandwich end , in a freakin 13 foot whaler.!

Go get em.

 

[thehermit]

Re: 2000 225 Fuel Starved @ high RPM

WELL...nothing real different to report here....went back on the water for a test...the motor ran like sh*t. Ran it for a while then removed all plugs to see if the problem followed either the coil or the carb. The NEWS...all cyl plugs were ash brown LEAN.

I am stumped. At this point I would bring it to a tech but I feel I am close and it must be something really stupid. There clearly is a fuel problem and we started to wonder if I got a bum VRO pump or something.

Clueless on Cape Cod...No Tuna for me unless I figure this crap out.

Anybody got any thoughts???

 

[jonesg]

Re: 2000 225 Fuel Starved @ high RPM

I would reconsider the whole problem, start by going over the basics again in case you missed something simple.

Compression.

spark gap should test good at 7/16th inch gap.

Check timing.

If they all check good then it has to be fuel delivery/air leak.

Fuel bulb becomes a free flowing fuel fitting once the engine fires up so they should feel soft but not collapsed.

Have you tried pressurizing the bulb and looking for leaks with a strong flashlight, look for fuel running down the back of the VRO, around any fittings and injectors.

You can detect a bum vro by pumping the bulb when its running lean.

 

[thehermit]

Re: 2000 225 Fuel Starved @ high RPM

Jonesg...answers below...I guess I can try timing again.

Compression.
120 on all CYL today
spark gap should test good at 7/16th inch gap.
.........................All new plugs gapped per spec
Check timing.
.........................I guess I can check this again.
If they all check good then it has to be fuel delivery/air leak.

Fuel bulb becomes a free flowing fuel fitting once the engine fires up so they should feel soft but not collapsed.
...........YUP
Have you tried pressurizing the bulb and looking for leaks with a strong flashlight, look for fuel running down the back of the VRO, around any fittings and injectors.
...........YUP/None also vacum chacked mainline
You can detect a bum vro by pumping the bulb when its running lean.
............YUP it does get better when you pump bulb. This is why i replaced VRO pump with new and removed the anti-siphon from my tank

 

[daselbee]

Re: 2000 225 Fuel Starved @ high RPM

Faz,


I can get over the fact that when I have my alarm go off my fuel ball is empty. Other than switching the carb to see if the lean condition follows it I am fresh out of ideas.

HERMIT

I can only assume you meant to say "I can't...." not "I can..." above. Is that right?
If so....

If your bulb is going flat, you have a fuel restriction somewhere between the fuel pump and the tank. To rule the tank and lines out, swap in a temp tank and line....use a six gallon plastic gas can.
The fuel pump is working fine, because the bulb is being sucked flat, and is empty of gas, and the alarm is going off. That's what happens with a restriction.

The engine is doing just as it is supposed to when there is a fuel restriction.
And it is probably between the primer bulb and the tank, including the tank pickup and vents.

 

[thehermit]

Re: 2000 225 Fuel Starved @ high RPM

Your right..bad typing skills.


I did run with 6gal tank and also bypassed racor...same problem

How do I check timing? Book is not exactly clear on this topic.

 

[daselbee]

Re: 2000 225 Fuel Starved @ high RPM

Yes, the whole post takes on a different meaning with that typo...

Timing is not the problem if your bulb is going flat. You MUST resolve that first. Run a 3/8 in. fuel line from a plastic 6 gal gas can with the pickup line just dropped down in the filler hole to a new primer bulb to the fuel pump. No filters for testing. You have a restriction.
Make sure the primer bulb is installed with the flow arrows pointing the right direction.

 

[thehermit]

Re: 2000 225 Fuel Starved @ high RPM

Well today started with a complete break down of the fuel supply system. I removed the tank pick up, the brass (not anti-siphon) nurple and blew thru both to look for leaks. They were perfect.

I removed the fuel line from the brass nurple to the primer bulb. I blew thry it and cleared the gas. Then I put a vacum on it....fine.

I removed the primer buld (new) and studied it long and hard...seems fine.

The racor is new so I left it alone...for now...but I have a brass hose barb to bypass it on the water (again).

I vacum tested the line from the racor to the small OB filter. Fine. I blew thry it too...fine.

I removed the 20 micron in-line filter and ran my 3/8 new fuel line right to the pump.

I removed the fuel lines and T fittings pre and post VRO all the way to the common fuel rail. I blew thru everything...fine.

I removed the oil line and gave it a few good shots of oil from the ball pump...it clear.

I then turned twards link/sync chek.

I FOUND SOME WEIRDNESS!!! Yea maybee?

WEIRDNESS: The bottom starboard carb butterfly was opening late.

I synced all carb butterflys

I gapped the cam follower .050 at idle stop.

I gapped all plugs .030

WEIRDNESS: The head of my idle stop srew was hitting the reed block and preventing WOT!

I fixed the problem and set the WOT stop screw and set WOT on butterflys (90 degrees)...it was just a bit off.

I ran the motor and checked the timing...4degrees ATDC within spec. I di nothing here.

I ran the motor @ idle in my tank for 20 min...she purs.

QUESTIONS:

would any of the carb weirdness described above cause a lean condition? Like timing advancing with carbs not opening??

What is the proper ide speed RPM for the looper??

Thanks guys....I am hoping the rain hold to test tommorow. If this fails I may invest in a fuel pressure kit to see if I maybee got a bum VRO.

Still trying....HERMIT OUT

 

[daselbee]

Re: 2000 225 Fuel Starved @ high RPM

Very good!!! Wow...not your typical problems, but good eye to find them.
Idle should be 700 or so in the water (not on muffs) so you have proper exhaust back pressure. Also, just so you can watch for it, when cold the engine will start and idle at 1100 or so rpm. When it reaches temp, it will automatically slow to 700 or so.
When started and already hot, the engine will run at 1100 for about 5 secs, then slow to normal 700. This is the normal operation of Quickstart.
If you see this behavior...all is good.

Bulb not going flat anymore? If not, you eliminated the restriction with all your fuel line tinkering. Keep a careful eye on that...lean running will destroy the engine.

Also...if that fuel pump is sucking the bulb flat...no way the pump is defective. It is pulling hard...

 

[ezeke]

Re: 2000 225 Fuel Starved @ high RPM

700 RPM is in gear, not neutral. QuikStart automatically disengages at 1100 RPM, so that is a little too fast for a cold idle.

 

[thehermit]

Re: 2000 225 Fuel Starved @ high RPM

OK then my idel speed is fine. My Quickstart (thanks for desribing this) is also working fine.

Crap day here so test run will have to wait. I will bring 6 gal tank to hook directly to pump if restriction alarm sounds.

Does anyone know where to get a test wheel????????????????
OMC test wheel #436080

I would luv to find one.

 

[thehermit]

Re: 2000 225 Fuel Starved @ high RPM

Well.....got back out again today. Same old Sh*t.

WOT produced more RPM after the link/synk. Motor still running LEAN on all CYL.

Put 6 gallon tank right to VRO...produced same results...didnt flatten the ball but still ran lean and leaned out after a brief run.

I give up...I have nothing left to check...unless I got a bad new VRO.

Hermit standing by...

 

[jonesg]

Re: 2000 225 Fuel Starved @ high RPM

Have you tried hitting the choke when it starts leaning out?

Checked the vacuum check valve ?