2007 Crusader 5.7L Classic Won't Start

[69Allmand]

Hello All,

Ive posted here before (2-3 years ago) and you guys were a great help but for what ever reason my old screen name and password did not work so I had to re-register.

Anyway, here's my problem: The engine cranks over just fine and actually "starts" while I'm cranking but as soon as I let off the key it dies acting just like the ballast resistor is shot. The trouble is I put a brand new ballast resistor in and the problem still exists. If I jumper the new ballast resistor to the engine ciruit breaker the engine starts and runs great. I have good conituity from the "I" terminal on the starter to the ballast resisitor and from the ballast resistor to the coil. My suspicions are that something in the starter is fried (maybe a diode??).

This is a 2007 5.7L carbureted Crusader"power pack" with a YLM series Mallory electronic distributor and a rear mounted Crusader OEM starter.

Any help at all will be greatly appreciated.

 

[mkast]

Re: 2007 Crusader 5.7L Classic Won't Start

Power to the coil with ignition in "Start", what about power to the coil with ignition in "Run"?

 

[69Allmand]

Re: 2007 Crusader 5.7L Classic Won't Start

No I have not checked for voltage when in "run". I assume there is no voltage when in "run" because when I add a jumper between the ballast resistor and engine ciruit breaker (known good voltage) the engine starts right up and runs fine. I had to use this technique to get the boat on to the mooring yesterday.

 

[MikDee]

Re: 2007 Crusader 5.7L Classic Won't Start

Normally in your wiring harness there are 2 main wires going into the coil.

1) From starter to coil for starting only 12volts (otherwise dead when you release the key)

2)The ignition wire "I" which is to run the engine.

Why did you put in a ballast resistor?

 

[69Allmand]

Re: 2007 Crusader 5.7L Classic Won't Start

I had a spare ballast resistor on the boat so I replaced the exisitng resistor thinking it would solve the problem. In my experience this is a classic symptom of an open ballast resistor and I did not have a meter on the boat at the time. Swapping it out was my best alternative and I was very surprised it did not fix the problem.
As I'm sure you know, when in "crank" the ballast resistor is effectively bypassed and the coil gets 12v directly from the cranking circuit (yel/red wire in my case).

 

[69Allmand]

Re: 2007 Crusader 5.7L Classic Won't Start

I have attached the Crusader wiring diagram for this engine (I think??) as a reference. In looking at the diagram I will check the oil pressure/fuel pump interlock and make sure it is closing.

I can't get the file attached, I think it's too big. I'll try to reduce size and repost.

 

[69Allmand]

No Voltage at Starter "I" Terminal when Key in "Run"

No Voltage at Starter "I" Terminal when Key in "Run"

Hi,

I have a 2007 carbureted Crusader 5.7 Classic with a Mallory YLM series electronic ignition and a high mounted starter. Engine "starts" while cranking and dies immediately when I let off the key to got to run position. There is no voltage at the starter "I" terminal when the key is in run.

Any ideas on what can cause this? Are there components in the starter solenoid that can go bad (a diode??) How or where does the "I" terminal get its voltage? Does anyone have a schematic for the inside of the starter solenoid?

Thanks for you help.

 

[bds85466]

Re: No Voltage at Starter "I" Terminal when Key in "Run"

Re: No Voltage at Starter "I" Terminal when Key in "Run"

Do the remainder of your gauges get power when you have the key in the run position (like do you get a respnse/jump on your guauges when flipping the key?) I know that on most setups, when you set the key to 'run' before you start, my gages respond to the +12 coming from the ignition switch.

I know the first thing to do, and that's examine your ignition switch wiring. Check all your connections from the battery all the way up to your ignition switch -- and then back down. Look for discontinuities or bad connections with possible corrosion.

Depending on how those posts are vs supposed to be wired, having no volts at the I post terminal may be your problem, but I'm no expert. Not sure why it would be the starter solenoid if your starter motor appears to be starting your engine.

You should post this in the Electrics/Electronics section as there's some pretty good electro-heads in there.

 

[JustJason]

Re: No Voltage at Starter "I" Terminal when Key in "Run"

Re: No Voltage at Starter "I" Terminal when Key in "Run"

The I terminal get's its voltage from the S terminal only when cranking. It's there to "help" power the ignition system when cranking.
That being said, I have no idea what color all your wires are on a crusader, but your ignition is not seeing 12 volts with the key in the run position, and you need to figure out why. You can start either at the keyswitch and work your way to the engine, or start at the coil and work your way to the keyswitch. But your going to need a DMM and some time to trace everything.

 

[MikDee]

Re: 2007 Crusader 5.7L Classic Won't Start

Maybe I'm mistaken, But, it seems to me if you have Mallory electronic ignition, you don't need a resistor of any type!

A resistor is only used to keep the breaker points from burning up!
Hence, as usually the case, with electronic ignition, No breaker points = No resistor needed!

Just remove the resistor, wire it up, & go, IMO

 

[69Allmand]

Re: 2007 Crusader 5.7L Classic Won't Start

That is not true in my case. I bought these engines brand new and they came with the resistors. The resistor can be seen in the Crusader wiring diagram for these engines on page 67 in the manual at the link provided below
http://www.crusaderengines.com/manuals/L510019-07.pdf

 

[bruceb58]

Re: No Voltage at Starter "I" Terminal when Key in "Run"

Re: No Voltage at Starter "I" Terminal when Key in "Run"

Safety lanyard switch..then work your way back.

 

[69Allmand]

Re: No Voltage at Starter "I" Terminal when Key in "Run"

Re: No Voltage at Starter "I" Terminal when Key in "Run"

I do have 12v at the batt terminal on the key switch and my guages all work when the switch is in run.

Jason, I don't think you're correct about the "I" and "S" terminals on the starter. My understanding is the "S" terminal provides a full 12v to the ignition circuit when cranking and the "I" terminal is supposed to supply ignition voltage thru the ballast resistor when the key is in the run position.

There is no safety lanyard on this setup. It is a twin engine inboard boat.

 

[Glastron_V210]

Re: No Voltage at Starter "I" Terminal when Key in "Run"

Re: No Voltage at Starter "I" Terminal when Key in "Run"

I posted this on your other thread, butr something got screwed up. You started another one???

I think you have done an effective job of troubleshooting.

BTW, the ballast resistor modifies the coil current charging waveform and limits the peak current flow through coil, thus preventing coil overheating etc when key on engine off, and during low frequency (RPM) operation. In my opinion it's not there to reduce wear on the points, but due to the lower current flow the points have to break, it makes sense the life of the points will be extended.

Ok, now to your problem...I'm looking at the schematic privided in the pdf...and I can't see a bypass of the ballast resistor, although I know what you're talking about...during crank when the voltage is low the r is bypassed to ensure the best spark possible.

I think the 'I' terminal is only hot while cranking, and is not your problem. If you look at the schematic, the 'Ignition' on the right hand side, coming from the ignition switch must be toast.

What happens is that when you crank, I goes hot and supplies the fuel pump with power. When you crank the oil pressure goes up allowing the switch to close and the ig gets 'backfed' via I, therfore the engine fires. You come off of crank and 'I' drops off, and kills the whole system because "Ignition" is not hot like it should be. If it was, it would maintain the ignition, and the fuel pump would run, now sourced via 'ignition' from right to left into the fuel pump.


You have a bad connection from the ignition switch, or the ignition sw. is toast!

Chay

 

[69Allmand]

Re: No Voltage at Starter "I" Terminal when Key in "Run"

Re: No Voltage at Starter "I" Terminal when Key in "Run"

Thanks Chay, that's the best explanation I've heard yet.

I will check that tonight though I was pretty convinced the switch and its required voltages were fine.

I never quite understood how this system got its full 12v while cranking but your reference to "backfeeding" thru the oil pressure/ fuel pump interlock makes lots of sense.

You're right I started a second post.....when I saw my original post 4 pages down this morning I didn't think it would continue to get looks and replies. My bad!

 

[Glastron_V210]

Re: No Voltage at Starter "I" Terminal when Key in "Run"

Re: No Voltage at Starter "I" Terminal when Key in "Run"

I'm pretty sure you're going to find a problem with the source there.

This is one thing that really lends itself to a test light rather than a voltmeter because voltmeters are really high impedance and can show 'ghost' voltages, which means things look ok, but really aren't, especially if there is a broken but not shorted connection.

My suggestion is to grab a 12V test light from the nearest auto parts store. It should show you what you need to know.


Chay

 

[MikDee]

Re: 2007 Crusader 5.7L Classic Won't Start

Okay, I'm gonna make assumptions here, tell me if I'm wrong,,, It is an old boat, with the original wiring, & a new engine package. Not knowing the color of your wiring, I'm gonna make a generalization here.

If you're using the old original "I" ignition wire, it is a built in resistor wire! So, no external resistor is needed, it puts out less the 12volts, so just run it straight to the coil.

If you're uncomfortable with this idea, run a new wire from the ignition, Or any source?, (from anywhere?) that is controlled by the ignition switch to deliver a full 12volts to the ballast resistor on your engine.

If you want to test this, run a wire directly from your battery to feed the ballast resistor, then try to start it as usual,,, If it starts, & runs, then you must do one of the 2 things I mentioned (as a permanent fix!)

Remember, the only way to shut the engine off when you do this test, is to pull the wire off the battery! That's why you need a full 12volt switched wire

Disregard the "S" wire, as it is only powered when you hold the key to crank, otherwise it's dead, it is used only for starting, as you have found out

An easy way to confirm all this, is check the voltage on the "I", or "run" wire with the ignition on to see if it has a full 12volts or not? probably not, meaning it's a resistor wire

 

[Silvertip]

Re: 2007 Crusader 5.7L Classic Won't Start

There are also no diodes in the starter. The starters function is to spin the engine. Has nothing to do with whether it runs or not. The RUN or "I" terminal on the ignition switch is what feeds the ignition system. If it's dead the engine will not run. If the engine has an electric fuel pump (probably not if its carbureted) then the oil pressure switch may be suspect.

 

[JustJason]

Re: No Voltage at Starter "I" Terminal when Key in "Run"

Re: No Voltage at Starter "I" Terminal when Key in "Run"

eagh.... ok, start with 12v going into the keyswitch. With the keyswitch on run (not start) are you getting 12v out of the keyswitch on the "I" terminal? If you are, do you have power at the coils +?

 

[bruceb58]

Re: No Voltage at Starter "I" Terminal when Key in "Run"

Re: No Voltage at Starter "I" Terminal when Key in "Run"

This is one thing that really lends itself to a test light rather than a voltmeter because voltmeters are really high impedance and can show 'ghost' voltages, which means things look ok, but really aren't, especially if there is a broken but not shorted connection.

My suggestion is to grab a 12V test light from the nearest auto parts store. It should show you what you need to know.


Chay

I still always use a meter but it is true that a meter can fool you if the circuit is not loaded and you are measuring the voltage on a highly resistive circuit. That is why you need to test the circuit with the ignition switch to on. The problem with a test light is that is doesn't show voltage drops.

Check your safety lanyard switch...it is inline between your ignition switch and the coil!!!
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