21' Maxum - Correct prop?

fishin1789

Seaman Apprentice
Joined
Sep 7, 2009
Messages
46
I have a 1992 21' Maxum cuddy cabin with the "dreaded" 120hp Force L-drive. The boat weighs about 1800 lbs. with 2 people aboard and at WOT turns about 4400 RPM. Not sure of speed since the speedo is not working! I'm having trouble getting it up on plane. It takes about 5-7 seconds before it will level off. It turns around 3200-3600 rpm while trying to get on plane then the rpm increases. It also seems to porpoise some even with the drive trimmed all the way down. It currently has a 3-blade aluminum 13X19 prop.

Does anyone know if changing the prop will help this condition?

Will adding a doelfin help? Trim tabs are not in the boats future due to the cost.
 
Joined
Sep 13, 2009
Messages
1
Re: 21' Maxum - Correct prop?

Hi, Before changing the prop, I would check engine compression first, I dont know if you are making all your horsepower. I have been playing with my props a lot lately and found at the Mercury website the prop selector program. It is very helpful in getting a good idea about what pitch prop to use. It shows 19 pitch if you are making 125hp and 17 pitch for 115hp. But that should be for upper 5000 rpms near 6000. Because you are only getting 4400 rpms at WOT, That engine has to be missing a lot of power! Even if you were a little off your rpms would be about 5200-5400 not 4400. Just my thoughts, good luck, Rick
 

fishin1789

Seaman Apprentice
Joined
Sep 7, 2009
Messages
46
Re: 21' Maxum - Correct prop?

Just did a compression test yesterday. All 4 cylinders were right at 115-120psi. Could the low rpm be a carb issue? The guy I got it from spent about $1500 trying to get it running right but was taking it to a "parts changer", not a mechanic. That's why I got it cheap! Love the boats layout, just need to get it running right! Thanks!!!!
 

rs1lollie

Petty Officer 2nd Class
Joined
May 27, 2009
Messages
194
Re: 21' Maxum - Correct prop?

is it possible that your tachometer is off??? get gps speed also.
 

fishin1789

Seaman Apprentice
Joined
Sep 7, 2009
Messages
46
Re: 21' Maxum - Correct prop?

I don't think the tach is off. This thing just isn't turning the rpms that it should for some reason. Forgot the GPS today, but I'm taking a WAG that top speed is around 22-25 mph now. There has to be SOMETHING wrong! This boat doesn't weigh that much and the engine is NOT even close to screaming at WOT. It feels like it is running at 3/4 throttle when at WOT. Carb issue? Ignition issue? Linkage issue? OR, something else? Thanks!
 

hwsiii

Commander
Joined
Jan 25, 2009
Messages
2,639
Re: 21' Maxum - Correct prop?

Fishin, the first thing I can see that is wrong is that you are using a 19" pitch when you definitely should not be using over a 17" pitch prop, and possibly you need even less pitch depending on the hull form. I show you have a 1.93:1 gear ratio and your motor should turn right at 5,500 RPM at WOT, please verify this.
Then you have to take into consideration are you using the right blade geometry prop on the boat as that can certainly create bad performance problems such as slow speeds and porpoising.
I show a boat of that weight and HP, depending on the particular hull form you have, should do in the mid to high 30 MPH. So if you theoretically are only doing 25 MPH you are missing a lot of speed. You need a GPS WOT speed and I can tell you how much prop slip you are experiencing and that always help to determine if it is a motor problem or something else.
The porpoising issue an be caused by weight distribution in the wrong places and/or water in the hull and and/or the wrong blade geometry prop.
If you will fill this form out I will help you as much as I can.

Iboats Boat and Motor Info

1. Year, make and model of boat
2. Length, width and base weight of boat, look for boat decal on back of boat
2a.What is the maximum recommended HP for your boat
3. Number of people and gallons of gas normally on boat
4. What do you use the boat for
5. Is it a Deep Vee and if so how many degrees of deadrise
6. Year, make. manufacturer and model of motor
7. HP and gear ratio of motor IMPORTANT
If you don?t know the ratio, you need to pull the plugs out and put a piece of tape across the prop and the lower unit and then cut it between the prop and the housing then do the same thing on the flywheel and turn the motor until the tape lines up with each other on the prop, it is easier if two people do this, so one can watch the prop while the other counts the revolutions of the motor
8. Manufacturer?s recommended Wide Open Throttle (WOT) range
9. Anti-ventilation Plate height above keel of boat if it is an outboard in inches, use a board under the keel and stiking out to the anti ventilation plate for a referene
10. Is it a bass boat or does it have a pad bottom
11. Does it have a hydrafoil, dolefin or trim tabs
12. Make, model, diameter, pitch and whether SS or aluminum prop
13. WOT RPM and speed from your current prop and how much gas and how many people were in the boat for the test data and is the speed by GPS. Make sure you trim the prop up until it starts ventilating and then just trim in until it quits ventilating. If you do not have a tach you can buy a Tiny Tach for $ 50
RPM ___________ Speed ___________ No. of people ____________ Gas ________
14. Are you at sea level or a higher elevation, give us the elevation in feet
15. Has your motor been tuned up lately and have you checked that the carburetor butterfly is opening all the way, checked compression, and looked at the plugs and checked spark, all of the foregoing could be the reason your prop is not attaining full RPM
16. How long has this prop been on the boat and why, at this time, do you think it is the wrong prop
17. Does the prop show any damage that you can see
18. What problems are you trying to cure or what are you looking for the boat to do that it is not doing the way you think it should or to your expectations
19. If you are trying to attain a better cruising speed and fuel savings or trying to attain a faster speed I will want you to take your boat and run it with 1 or 2 people and give me the RPM and speed readings starting at 3,000 RPM in 500 RPM increments all the way to WOT.

REMEMBER, The numbers I give you will be NO better than the information you give me

The only thing I ask of you is to come back and give me a report of WOT RPM and speed for my database.



H
 

fishin1789

Seaman Apprentice
Joined
Sep 7, 2009
Messages
46
Re: 21' Maxum - Correct prop?

Fishin, the first thing I can see that is wrong is that you are using a 19" pitch when you definitely should not be using over a 17" pitch prop, and possibly you need even less pitch depending on the hull form. I show you have a 1.93:1 gear ratio and your motor should turn right at 5,500 RPM at WOT, please verify this.
Then you have to take into consideration are you using the right blade geometry prop on the boat as that can certainly create bad performance problems such as slow speeds and porpoising.
I show a boat of that weight and HP, depending on the particular hull form you have, should do in the mid to high 30 MPH. So if you theoretically are only doing 25 MPH you are missing a lot of speed. You need a GPS WOT speed and I can tell you how much prop slip you are experiencing and that always help to determine if it is a motor problem or something else.
The porpoising issue an be caused by weight distribution in the wrong places and/or water in the hull and and/or the wrong blade geometry prop.
If you will fill this form out I will help you as much as I can.

Iboats Boat and Motor Info

1. Year, make and model of boat 1992 Maxum 2100LDC
2. Length, width and base weight of boat, look for boat decal on back of boat21 ft long , 8ft beam , weight is aprox. 1600 lbs.
2a.What is the maximum recommended HP for your boat 150
3. Number of people and gallons of gas normally on boat 2 people, 12 gallons
4. What do you use the boat for Mostly cruising, some tubeing.
5. Is it a Deep Vee and if so how many degrees of deadrise
6. Year, make. manufacturer and model of motor 1992 Force L-drive
7. HP and gear ratio of motor IMPORTANT120 hp Gear Ratio = 1.93:1
If you don?t know the ratio, you need to pull the plugs out and put a piece of tape across the prop and the lower unit and then cut it between the prop and the housing then do the same thing on the flywheel and turn the motor until the tape lines up with each other on the prop, it is easier if two people do this, so one can watch the prop while the other counts the revolutions of the motor
8. Manufacturer?s recommended Wide Open Throttle (WOT) range 5200-5500
9. Anti-ventilation Plate height above keel of boat if it is an outboard in inches, use a board under the keel and stiking out to the anti ventilation plate for a referene
10. Is it a bass boat or does it have a pad bottom Cuddy Cabin
11. Does it have a hydrafoil, dolefin or trim tabs NO
12. Make, model, diameter, pitch and whether SS or aluminum prop Unknown mfgr. 13X16 3-blade aluminum (almost new)
13. WOT RPM and speed from your current prop and how much gas and how many people were in the boat for the test data and is the speed by GPS. Make sure you trim the prop up until it starts ventilating and then just trim in until it quits ventilating. If you do not have a tach you can buy a Tiny Tach for $ 50
RPM ___4400________ Speed ____26mph_______ No. of people ___3_________ Gas __8 gal.______
14. Are you at sea level or a higher elevation, give us the elevation in feet 725
15. Has your motor been tuned up lately and have you checked that the carburetor butterfly is opening all the way, checked compression, and looked at the plugs and checked spark, all of the foregoing could be the reason your prop is not attaining full RPM All seem OK
16. How long has this prop been on the boat and why, at this time, do you think it is the wrong prop Just bought this boat, not very old prop , WOT and speed seem low.
17. Does the prop show any damage that you can see NO
18. What problems are you trying to cure or what are you looking for the boat to do that it is not doing the way you think it should or to your expectations More top end speed and faster planeing.
19. If you are trying to attain a better cruising speed and fuel savings or trying to attain a faster speed I will want you to take your boat and run it with 1 or 2 people and give me the RPM and speed readings starting at 3,000 RPM in 500 RPM increments all the way to WOT.

REMEMBER, The numbers I give you will be NO better than the information you give me

The only thing I ask of you is to come back and give me a report of WOT RPM and speed for my database.



H

Hope these numbers help! Thanks alot!
 

Chris/n5vkn

Recruit
Joined
Mar 23, 2009
Messages
3
Re: 21' Maxum - Correct prop?

I have a 1992 21' Maxum cuddy cabin with the "dreaded" 120hp Force L-drive. The boat weighs about 1800 lbs. with 2 people aboard and at WOT turns about 4400 RPM. Not sure of speed since the speedo is not working! I'm having trouble getting it up on plane. It takes about 5-7 seconds before it will level off. It turns around 3200-3600 rpm while trying to get on plane then the rpm increases. It also seems to porpoise some even with the drive trimmed all the way down. It currently has a 3-blade aluminum 13X19 prop.

Does anyone know if changing the prop will help this condition?

Will adding a doelfin help? Trim tabs are not in the boats future due to the cost.

21 foot cuddy with a 120 horse 13x19 pitch 4400 rpms.

1)120 horse on a 21 foot boat is a little under powered but will work.
2)13x19 You may want to go to a 14x17 pitch with this size of boat but these guys know more than me and can fix you up here.
3) 4400 rpm (4200 to 4600 rpm) This is where this motor is suppose to run if I remember right.
4)6000 rpm? Just a thought. You wouldn't run your dads old pinto at 6000 rpm for very long or there would be several pieces of motor to pick up off the road side.
5) 22 to 25 mph sounds about right. You may get 30 to 35 mph out of her with the right prop.
6) A manual would help you keep it all together a running correctly.
 

hwsiii

Commander
Joined
Jan 25, 2009
Messages
2,639
Re: 21' Maxum - Correct prop?

Fishin, if this is a guess and not GPS speed everything I say after this means nothing.
With the numbers you gave me I am showing you have a prop slip of 37% and that is unbelievably high. And if you couple this with your RPM only reaching 4,400 RPM it looks like you have some real problems.

Prop Slip

fishin1789PropSlip.jpg


I have a recommendation for a much better prop than you are running right now, but I believe that there are other problems we need to address before we change props. If we change props at this stage I believe we are just hiding a problem that is somewhere else and needs to be taken care of.

It currently has a 3-blade aluminum 13X19 prop.
12. Make, model, diameter, pitch and whether SS or aluminum prop Unknown mfgr. 13X16 3-blade aluminum (almost new)
I assume you just made an error in the pitch of the prop and it is actually a 19" pitch and NOT a 16" pitch. Because if you changed to a 16" prop and are getting the same RPM we need to fix the motor for sure.

The information I have shows your boat to weigh 1,900 pounds and the allup weight during your testing to be about 2,600 pounds.

Boat and Motor

fishin1789BoatandMotor.jpg


I believe there is a good chance that your tachometer is not showing the right RPM. You need to turn the switch on the back of it 6 or 8 times to try and clean the contacts and see if that changes your RPM at WOT. Please take the boat out again and bring a GPS and a hand held tachometer and verify the WOT RPM and speed. When we have this I will make a prop recommendation and feel that we have done everything we can to find a better prop and we have maximized the speed for your boat.


H
 

fishin1789

Seaman Apprentice
Joined
Sep 7, 2009
Messages
46
Re: 21' Maxum - Correct prop?

Thanks a bunch hwsiii!!! I thought that there HAD to be another problem also! Guess what, I started checking the fuel system and lo and behold, the choke on the bottom carb was out of adjustment and the choke on that carb was about 1/2 closed ALL the time! Checked the plugs on those 2 cylinders and they were fouled. It's raining like the monsoon season is starting here, so I can't get to the water until later in the week. I hope this cures the low WOT RPM issue and the getting on plane problem. I'll be sure to take the GPS and get back to you with some new numbers for your database.

Thanks again for your help! It's people like you guys that make boating fun!
 
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