2wd or 4wd?

[H20Rat]

Re: 2wd or 4wd?

T
Contrary to what you would expect, the reliability of the Explorer as a tow vehicle has been found to be extremely poor by many.
Search this forum for "Ford Explorer" and you will find many horror stories.

haha, contrary to what you would expect? There are few people people out there who expect much out of an exploder, except to be broken down with very expensive repairs at any given time! (owned an exploder once, will never do that again...)

 

[TimBobCom]

Re: 2wd or 4wd?

My boat/trailer weighs close to 5300lbs and I pull it with a 2WD Avalanche with a locking differential. Never had a problem on any ramp, either the nicely paved and grooved ones, the wet steep concrete ramps or the gravel ramps. Nice thing about SUVs (Avalanche, Explorer, Expedition, Suburban, etc) is that they have more weight over the rear wheels than a full size 2WD pickup, so you do get much less wheel spin on the ramp.

 

[Dolfan0925]

Re: 2wd or 4wd?

Yeah I was kind of figuring worst case senario I throw some sandbags in the back when I take the boat out. My boat currently is a little 17' bowrider. Can't weigh more than 2,000lbs. I was pulling it out with a '97 Chevy Lumina.

 

[Bamaman1]

Re: 2wd or 4wd?

What wasn't said is if you're considering a 2012 Explorer, which is a front wheel drive, or an older Explorer that was a rear wheel drive.

If you're talking about a 2012 Explorer, get the all wheel drive version. FWD's simply suck on a boat ramp. The new Explorer's AWD is not that expensive an option, and it's extremely nice.

If you're looking at the previous generation Explorer, check for a tag on the rear differential saying the vehicle is limited slip equipped. You would want it. The 4.6 engine is also preferable--not the archaic 6 cylinder engine.

 

[dgiles]

Re: 2wd or 4wd?

I'm a little curious what everyone thinks a "rear locker" is. I know what a locker is, and they generally are not offered on any modern vehicle, from factory. Posi-track are also very difficult to find. They offer "limited slip" which is a big difference than what a "posi-track" is and that is big difference than what a "locker" is. A locker locks the diff solid, which is usually a manual or electric to make the axle solid. You can't drive it on pavement. Posi-track lets the tire with the most traction spin, but at times, only one wheel is getting power. Limited slip has friction modifiers in the diff to push the tire with the most traction to spin, but doesnt happen in all cases, and the oil wears, etc and eventually you have an open diff.

If you are going to spend the money to upgrade a current diff, buy a 4x4 IMO.

 

[bajaunderground]

Re: 2wd or 4wd?

I come from the school of "better to have it an not need it, than to need it and not have it!" We launch mostly at ramps in State Parks with some form of concrete ramp (grooved or otherwise). When the water level is at or near capacity (reservoirs) 2WD is perfectly fine, even on some of the steepest ramps. Get into a situation where the water level is down 10'+ feet and there's the potential for slipping, even in 4WD.

There are a few occasions where we must beach launch on soft/unpredictable sand, for this even 4WD is a gamble, and you'd better hope there's other people around, just in case?!

If you launch at the same place all the time and think you can get away with using 2WD, by all means got for it, the money saved in acquisition and maintaining is nice, but if even for a second you think you'll boat at other areas or plan on traveling out of area to the "unknown" I'd splurge and get the 4WD.

Lockers, full-time (Detroit) true electric (toyota, nissan, GM) air (ARB) or cable actuated (Ox locker) are not readily available on their vehicles w/o 4WD, I know the Toyota Tacoma Pre-runner is 2WD with the locker option and I believe Nissan has a similar product, but not sure. They are pricey too...

Some of the vehicles with traction control use the brakes as a way to cheat the differential into thinking one wheel locks up and sends the power to the other wheel...in many cases it happens so fast it feels more like a locker and works very well on some of the cars/trucks I've driven.

In the end, it's your vehicle....and it's a personal decision as to how equipped you think you'll need to be! Modern 4WD systems are far superior to older ones and can be run in 4WD a good portion of the time...hell I run mine in really slick, wet roads when I feel I need the extra grip.

After all, there's a reason you carry a paddle in you boat, right? Just in case!

 

[colding]

Re: 2wd or 4wd?

Modern 4WD systems are far superior to older ones and can be run in 4WD a good portion of the time...hell I run mine in really slick, wet roads when I feel I need the extra grip!

I don't know who told you that, but they're wrong. If you run in 4wd on pavement, wet or not, you are prematurely killing your drive lines! Those tires need to be able to slip on the surface they're on if you're traveling anymore than a very short distance.

 

[bajaunderground]

Re: 2wd or 4wd?

I don't know who told you that, but they're wrong. If you run in 4wd on pavement, wet or not, you are prematurely killing your drive lines! Those tires need to be able to slip on the surface they're on if you're traveling anymore than a very short distance.

Tell me how come I've been driving ALL of my 4 wheel drives this way without any additional wear?

So, by your rationale, driving with just a rear axle is "prematurely" killing my drive line? The front and rear axle in my Tacoma is the same ring and pinion, the front is independent as it offers a "better ride" but for arguments sake the basic design is the same with turning abilities and CV joints. Both front and rear axles travel from engine to transmission to transfer case to differential. The only time I would agree is when you're turning sharply as the inside tire spins slower than the outside tire, otherwise, you are no more likely wearing out the front any faster than the rear. It's a common misconception that driving in 4WD in anything but off-road situations is bad, I disagree, I use it anywhere I think there a chance I may lose traction. Is there wear, yes! Is it anymore than the rear, no (unless the aforementioned tight turning situation arises)

Greater/smarter men than me have disagreed, but I've bought and sold many 4WD without any breakdowns/extra maintenance. I tend to use my vehicles as I think they are best suited, regardless of wear, as that what it's there for! I am anal about replacing u-joints, fluids (I run synthetics only), tire rotation/pressure...My 2007 Tacoma has 102K miles and is still as tight as it was when bought new. I tow my camper GVWR of 6,000lbs regularly 240 miles a weekend w/o any failures...

So, if there is any add'l wear/tear then I am oblivious and ignorance is bliss!!! Which I would surmise for the OP is why people previously stated the add'l cost of maintenance of a 4WD!

As a side note I had a 1978 Bronco with 56K original miles (first year for full-size) Ford 9" rear axle and Dana 44 front axle...I sold it to a gentleman driving from Colorado to Montana, then on to Alaska. Along the way from Montana to Alaska he had a rear axle failure (not sure to what degree?) but he was able to drop rear drive shaft, put it in 4WD and finish his drive to Alaska w/o any add'l drive issues.

 

[rbh]

Re: 2wd or 4wd?

^^^^, colding has a point there.

Due to the fact that 4x4 front ends are locked in and are steering axles and they have U-joints. When you crank the wheel over when driving your placing strain on the whole front end (remember one wheels moving faster than the other when cornering) there needs to be some give, so thats why your not supposed to engage 4X4 on dry roads.

 

[colding]

Re: 2wd or 4wd?

rbh is correct. But it's your vehicle, do with it what you will. Just remember what I said, and I'll never say 'I told ya so'. And if I ever buy a used 4x4 from Colorado, I need to make sure you never owned it. :facepalm:

 

[hungupthespikes]

Re: 2wd or 4wd?

Getting back to the OP.

Lets face it, in PSL,Fl., 12 ft. above sea level is high ground. A steep ramp is just not the norm down there so 2wd will work just fine,... IF.. you check the ramp conditions and use some common sense.

With a 6000 lbs. load and a 4wd f150 I've only used the 4wd once in over 10 years, for a boat ramp. If I hadn't of been so blind/dumb/lack of common sense, I wouldn't have put the boat in to start.
Steep ramp covered with algae, ONLY boat/boater in sight (hint) at a new big 6 lane ramp. All the "signs" were there to go to another launch site.
Nope not me, smoked every wheel I could to burn the ramp clean to get out. :facepalm:

 

[NYBo]

Re: 2wd or 4wd?

Tell me how come I've been driving ALL of my 4 wheel drives this way without any additional wear?

Your transfer case must have a differential a.k.a. full-time 4WD. Part-time 4WD transfer cases do not and you will cause all sorts of damage driving with 4WD engaged on dry pavement.

 

[SilverSS07]

Re: 2wd or 4wd?

I'm a little curious what everyone thinks a "rear locker" is. I know what a locker is, and they generally are not offered on any modern vehicle, from factory. Posi-track are also very difficult to find. They offer "limited slip" which is a big difference than what a "posi-track" is and that is big difference than what a "locker" is. A locker locks the diff solid, which is usually a manual or electric to make the axle solid. You can't drive it on pavement. Posi-track lets the tire with the most traction spin, but at times, only one wheel is getting power. Limited slip has friction modifiers in the diff to push the tire with the most traction to spin, but doesnt happen in all cases, and the oil wears, etc and eventually you have an open diff.

If you are going to spend the money to upgrade a current diff, buy a 4x4 IMO.

Posi Track is actually just a limited slip. GM used the term back in the 60's or 70's to name their LSD. Dodge calls their LSD an "anti-spin" differential. It's all the same. Most are a clutch type. LSD does just what it's called- it limits the amount of slip from one tire to the other so that both will turn. What you're referring to as posi track is an open rear end- where the tire with the least traction spins and no power is delivered to the other tire. Locker is superior though. You can also drive a locker on pavement. I have a Detroit locker in my car- don't have to do anything to activate it. It automatically locks when a tire starts to spin. I love it. If it is locked when you're going around a corner you will notice the clack sound and the rear will jerk a little but unless you're hard on the gas it won't be locked. I know GM offered a locker in their trucks- not sure what years or if they still do though. OP- if you were towing your boat with a FWD car with no issues then you won't have any issues with a RWD; especially an SUV since there is more weight on the rear axle than there is a pickup. When the boat is on the trailer the tongue weight will also push down more on the rear which helps give you more traction. On a FWD car it lifts the front up some and unloads the tires more giving a FWD car less traction. If you're concerned about it try to find one with a limited slip from the factory or install an LSD or locker.

 

[jkust]

Re: 2wd or 4wd?

I'm a little curious what everyone thinks a "rear locker" is.

For GM it is an Eaton G80 full locker. It locks when there is a 200rpm difference between the wheels. The GM Limited Slip is the G86. I have two newer Truck based SUV's (both 4 years old) one with a G80 and the other with a G86. They also both utilize the electronic limited slip system as well mentioned above. Obviously the Eaton's aren't the most robust for for the average non-off roader they do the job.

 

[bajaunderground]

Re: 2wd or 4wd?

rbh is correct. But it's your vehicle, do with it what you will. Just remember what I said, and I'll never say 'I told ya so'. And if I ever buy a used 4x4 from Colorado, I need to make sure you never owned it. :facepalm:

Fair Enough...but if you buy used, remember my statement...Ignorance is bliss!

 

[Mike in Tac]

Re: 2wd or 4wd?

Unless you're dealing with muddy and/or steep ramps, I'd go with 2WD and save the $$. Or then again, you can celebrate your divorce by treating yourself to a rugged 4WD rig!

 

[jwilkes]

Re: 2wd or 4wd?

I pull an 8,000-10,000lb center console / trailer combo up our steep local ramps nearly every weekend with an older F350 gasser. It has 4x4, but I've never used it with the boat. My truck is a stick shift and has an open rear differential, with brand new GoodYear silent armor tires.

TONGUE WEIGHT is your friend when it comes to slippery boat ramps, and so is a good set of grippy truck tires. Even with a 1 wheel peel, I barely slip- even with the rears poking into the water. Limited slip differential would definitely be a plus; a true LOCKING differential are not very street friendly unless it is a factory installed auto or electronic locker...I've had both. "Posi-Traction" is simply GM's name for their limited slip's; same as Ford's "Traction-Loc", etc. Aftermarket units definitely work more aggressively. I wouldn't be afraid of a 2wd only truck, but you have to have an idea of what you can and can't do with it. That being said, I'm still a 4wD guy since I need the snow-ability and sometimes go off-road.

I personally like towing with a manual shift truck, but there's some people that should just stick with an automatic. It's definitely easier, I will say that. If you have an underpowered vehicle, or one with too high of gear ratio, or one without a low enough first gear, it requires a lot of clutch work to get a boat moving up a ramp, and someone that goes clutch crazy will get the tires spinning pretty quick, and that can get ya into trouble. Once I let the clutch out a bit, I'm off the brake and on the gas just enough to creep up the ramp at a fast idle with baaaaarely any tire slip.

I think a lot of people may misunderstand the difference between all wheel and 4-wheel drive. "All wheel" drive vehicles have a separate differential unit in the transfer case unit that allow for the differences in input from the front tires when turning. If a vehicle has selectable 4wd, it should never be driven on dry pavement, no matter if it has an open front differential, same gear ratio, or whatever. I noticed someone on here mentioned that they've been driving their Toyota Tacoma like that for years with no trouble; in my opinion, just because someone's been doing something for years and gotten away with it doesn't make it right, it just makes him ignorant...or at least lucky...and that truck will never end up in my driveway!

 

[jkust]

Re: 2wd or 4wd?

The worst i've ever heard is the kids accidently switching the truck into 4hi and the driver not noticing. I've never heard of anyone driving even in 4hi on dry pavement on purpose. Certainly in slippery say winter conditions, I know people will click it into 4hi. Also it is hard to describe the various AWD systems with a broad brush. I'm amazed how different they all are. My trucks have on demand AWD as do newer Silverados and Suburbans. You can drive all day like that and the fronts only fully kick in when there is slip with a almost 100 percent rear wheel bias. The trouble occurs when the encoder motor malfunctions and all 4 wheels always drive. I like that feature when up in the mountain roads on ski trips in the rental suburbans.

 

[ronsealdeath]

Re: 2wd or 4wd?

I tow my 750kg package with a Ford Mondeo here in the UK. Its front wheel drive with a heavy 2 litre diesel engine up front pressing down on the driven wheels. With this arrangement, tongue weight is your enemy when towing up the slip! I have a pair of Michelin Alpine Winter tyres up front with aggressive tread and it gets up steep slippy ramps ok.
The only advantage I would have with 4WD is that my car is a 5 speed manual and you have to give it a fair bit of gas and feather the clutch to get it up the slip after loading the boat. This can burn the clutch out quite easily, stall or alternatively spin the tyres up (motor has 220 lf/ft torque) depending on how you balance it. So with a 4WD I could put it in low range and just let the clutch out at idle giving it a much easier time.
Personally, I would be cautious about a rear wheel drive pickup without having 4WD as a backup. Having no weight over the rear wheels would worry me but the slips where I launch can be really slippy and sandy (we have huge tidal ranges). Get an front driven auto and I reckon that would be pretty good.
Tyres are very important though, get decent ones with aggressive treads.

 

[oldjeep]

Re: 2wd or 4wd?

The worst i've ever heard is the kids accidently switching the truck into 4hi and the driver not noticing.

It would be awfully hard not to notice that in a part time system. You'ld have to be asleep to not notice it on the first dry turn.