4.3L LX Choke Problem

bugup

Seaman
Joined
Sep 4, 2004
Messages
66
I have a 1995 Merc 4.3 LX with a 4 barrel carb. I have been having a problem with it on start. It starts fine and will idle for a minute or so and then dies. It is a beast to restart and I end up cranking and cranking a little fuel etc. and then it will refire. If I start it and then keep it at 1200 - 1500 rpm until it builds temp it works just great and I can pull it back to idle and it's fine. I was discussing this with a guy at work and he suggested that the choke is held open via an electric solenoid after start before it builds up temp and then via temp after. He thought that maybe the electric portion is not working and as a result not opening when it is supposed to and flooding it's self. Hence beening so hard to restart the second time. He also said that by keeping it at a high RPM after start it is using all the extra fuel beeing supplied and then once the temp is up the choke is opening and that is why I am able to pull it back to idle with no problem. I don't have that much experience with carbs, however, I was wondering if this could be correct. Also if anyone has any ideas how to test and fix this that would be great. I am thinking that it may be a corroded wire or something. Any help would be great.<br /><br />Thanx
 

Bondo

Moderator
Staff member
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Apr 17, 2002
Messages
71,082
Re: 4.3L LX Choke Problem

The Guy at work has a very plausable diagnosis,........<br />His How/Why of the way it works is alittle off,....But it all works out the same.......<br /><br />There's a Purple wire going to the choke, on the side of the Carb...... It should be "Hot" with the Key in the "On" position,....<br />A bi-metal spring heats up,+ pulls off the choke,......<br /><br />There's quite a few adjustments that can,+ should be made,........<br />You should have somebody who knows carbs,.. Take a Look at it...........<br /><br />Hopefully,...... achris will see this,..........<br />He Just Loves the Merc/Weber/Edlebrock/Carter AFB Carbs.........<br />He knows them,.. Inside,+ Out............ :D
 

bugup

Seaman
Joined
Sep 4, 2004
Messages
66
Re: 4.3L LX Choke Problem

Should I be checking to see if I have 12 volts there or should I be listening to see if I hear the metal strip moving or making so type of sound. Also any ideas on if I can buy just the bi-metal strip etc.
 

searay3

Senior Chief Petty Officer
Joined
Apr 7, 2005
Messages
655
Re: 4.3L LX Choke Problem

Connected to the choke 'butterfly' is a vacuum pulldown that opens the choke from fully closed at startup to open about 1/8th inch when the engine begins to run. This handles the time it takes for the choke spring to heat up and open. It is on the opposite side of the electric choke housing/spring. If the diaphragm has torn (does happen sometimes) you will get the same symptoms. Watch the pulldown as you start the motor. If it does not move, there is either a vacuum issue with the carb (rebuild) or the vacuum pulldown needs replaced. My 2 cents.....
 

bugup

Seaman
Joined
Sep 4, 2004
Messages
66
Re: 4.3L LX Choke Problem

I have looked at the diaphram and it is not torn, however, the metal around it does have a bit of corrosion. I sanded and tried to clean it up a bit and lubricated it as well. I am stil having the same issue. I will try and start it and watch the diaphram<br /><br />Question: Is the diaphram independent of the electric portion of the choke or is this the only system that keeps the choke open right after engine start?
 

Don S

Honorary Moderator Emeritus
Joined
Aug 31, 2004
Messages
62,321
Re: 4.3L LX Choke Problem

Most Mercruise chokes are set way too tight for my tastes. It may work fine in the winter, but these are on boats and it's usually summer or warm weather.<br />Try readjusting the choke when cold. Open the throttle "JUST A LITTLE" and loosen the 3 screws on the choke coil. Then turn it till the choke opens. Now close it till it just closes. Tighten the screws and try the starting.<br />Any carbed engine will like to be given a little gas for inital warm up. They are not EFI and they never will act like it when first started and cold.
 

searay3

Senior Chief Petty Officer
Joined
Apr 7, 2005
Messages
655
Re: 4.3L LX Choke Problem

Yes the diaphragm is independent of the electrical.
 

bugup

Seaman
Joined
Sep 4, 2004
Messages
66
Re: 4.3L LX Choke Problem

DonS, Searay3, anyone else:<br /><br />As you can probably guess I am no wizz when it comes to carbs. Do both the electrical and diaphram systems pull the choke open after start to allow the engine to run? Should I check both systems?<br /><br />Also what steps would you use to de-snag the problem to find out what is causing this problem, i.e electrical and then vacuum etc. I guess start with the most basic and then get more difficult would be my guess.<br /><br />Thanx<br /><br />Thanx
 

JJJ

Petty Officer 2nd Class
Joined
May 12, 2005
Messages
158
Re: 4.3L LX Choke Problem

Does the 95 4.3LX have an electric choke? <br />My 96 4.3LX has a manifold heat choke and my brothers 4.3LXH has the electric choke.<br /><br />Could very well be the pulloff is bad or adjusted wrong though.
 

bugup

Seaman
Joined
Sep 4, 2004
Messages
66
Re: 4.3L LX Choke Problem

JJJ<br /><br />In your post you mention the pulloff. What is this and how can I check/ adjust it.
 

JJJ

Petty Officer 2nd Class
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May 12, 2005
Messages
158
Re: 4.3L LX Choke Problem

"Connected to the choke 'butterfly' is a vacuum pulldown that opens the choke from fully closed at startup to open about 1/8th inch when the engine begins to run"<br /><br />It is the pulloff - old car term. Easiest way to check it is with a vac. pump. Just pump the throttle once to set the choke closed (cold engine), then remove the vac. hose to the diaphram and apply a vac. to the diaphram. It should open the choke butterfly about 1/8" or so. This has to be done with the flame arrestor off so you can see the choke blade.<br /><br /> http://216.37.204.206/Shorts/mercruiser_oem/Mercruiser.asp?Type=13&SubType=111&A=39&B=11 <br /><br />Part #7 is the pulloff.<br /><br />Jeff
 

bugup

Seaman
Joined
Sep 4, 2004
Messages
66
Re: 4.3L LX Choke Problem

JJJ <br /><br />Thanks for link with the diagram. That is my carb alright. I see the pulloff you are talking about and I beieve that I mentioned before that it is a little corroded. I tried to clean it up and lubricate it. What is the best way to apply a vacuum to it to test it? I don't believe that I have a vaccum pump. You also mentioned that it can be adjusted. How is this done? Maybe I should just by a new one and replace it totally. <br /><br />Another question I have is how high should my idle be set. At present it is set at about 600 RPM. Is this a little low?<br /><br />Thanks.
 

achris

More fish than mountain goat
Joined
May 19, 2004
Messages
27,468
Re: 4.3L LX Choke Problem

Hi Bugup,<br /><br />As Bondo alluded, I have seen this thread and yes, I'm a 'fan' of these carbs. It sounds like you have a very typical Weber carb. <br /><br />Here's what's actually happening with your engine. <br /><br />When you shutdown these engines, the carb continues to dribble fuel through the auxillary venturiis in the primary throats. This continues until there is not enough fuel in the float chambers to sustain the syphoning effect. There is still a little fuel left in the chambers and accelerator pump plunger, enough for the next time you start it. It will run on that remaining fuel for about 30 seconds and then stall due to a lack of fuel, not a rich condition. For reasons which I haven't fathomed (yet) the fuel seems to drain out of the fuel line as well. This is why it takes so long to restart, you're pulling fuel all the way from the tank to get to the carb. The fuel pump is wired so it will have power while cranking (through the starter motor circuit) so fuel will be pumped while cranking. <br /><br />That all said, there are a few things you can do to help the situation. As yet I haven't found a way to alleviate the problem completely (short of installing an EFI engine :D )<br /><br />1. Fit an outboard fuel primer bulb in the line between the tank and the fuel pump. As soons as the engine starts, pump the bulb. You can't do it without the pump running, the internals of the pump don't allow fuel to pass unless its running.<br />2. (THIS IS NOT RECOMMENDED) but is done by a few. (Hello Bondo :D ) Remove the wires on the oil pressure switch that stop the pump running when the oil pressure drops and join them together. This will have the pump running as soon as the key is turned to ON and (hopefully) start the fuel flowing up to the carb. Repeat - THIS IS NOT RECOMMENDED.<br /><br />If you do both of these and just remember to pump the fuel up first thing in the morning, you'll have the same 'solution' that I use. <br /><br />You idle speed should be set witht he enigne in forward gear and NOT restricted, that is, Not tied to the jetty or anything, just out in the water, at idle, in gear, drifting along. Set the idle speed to about 650 RPM +/- 50.<br /><br />If you have the 9600 carb, then it has a 'heat stove' auto choke. The 9666S has the electric auto choke. The heat stove is a small (1 inch square) box bolted to the inlet manifold with a lever going up to the choke plate. The electric has a round black part bolted to the side of the carb that operates the choke plate directly. (see pictures below)<br /><br />I have one last question for you. When you are out fishing/boating and you shut the engine off and then go to restart it after more than about 10 minutes, does it take a heap of cranking to re-start, about 20-30 seconds? If it does, this is because the carb has flooded the engine. Next time you're out, sit at the back of the boat and have someone else start it, I bet you see a bit of black smoke or smell a 'rich' condition. Let me know what you find. Thanks.<br /><br />Chris..............<br /><br /><br />Picture of 9600 carb. Auto-choke is items#28-32.<br /><br />
watermark.php
<br /><br />Picture of 9666S carb. Auto-choke is items #11, 12.<br /><br />
watermark.php
 

JJJ

Petty Officer 2nd Class
Joined
May 12, 2005
Messages
158
Re: 4.3L LX Choke Problem

Chris, does adding a phenol resin spacer help any?<br />What is the fast idle rpm spec? First start of the day.<br /><br />Bugup, Usually you adjust the pulloff by bending the link shorter or longer depending on what you need. But is your problem a cold start or a hot restart? Cold start rpm is different than a hot idle rpm.
 

bugup

Seaman
Joined
Sep 4, 2004
Messages
66
Re: 4.3L LX Choke Problem

Achris<br /><br />Thanks for the great reply and explanation on how the carb works. I believe that the reason it stalls when I start normally is due to the choke because it will run fine (first crank)if I start it and hold it at 1200-1500 rpm until it reaches temp (130-150). It only dies after I start it and bring it back to idle to warm up. Then it is a bugger to restart. As for stopping it for 10 + mins and then retry I'll have to try that out. I have only been shutting it off long enough to change skiers.
 

achris

More fish than mountain goat
Joined
May 19, 2004
Messages
27,468
Re: 4.3L LX Choke Problem

Originally posted by JJJ:<br /> Chris, does adding a phenol resin spacer help any?<br />What is the fast idle rpm spec? First start of the day.
No. Also no fast idle cam on these carbs. If you drop the 'warm-up' lever back the engine will drop back to full idle position. The reason for that is so you can't put it in gear with the engine running above idle (650 rpm).<br /><br />Chris......
 

dutch135

Petty Officer 2nd Class
Joined
Jun 23, 2002
Messages
143
Re: 4.3L LX Choke Problem

I'm learning to start my LX, but the restart after sitting has been a problem. An hour, or so, of swimming while anchored and it's like starting cold all over again. <br />Chris, are you aware of a solution to that problem also?
 

JJJ

Petty Officer 2nd Class
Joined
May 12, 2005
Messages
158
Re: 4.3L LX Choke Problem

You know I just glanced at the carb, didn't even notice no fast idle cam :) <br />Just got the boat so still glancing at things overall.<br /><br />Jeff
 

achris

More fish than mountain goat
Joined
May 19, 2004
Messages
27,468
Re: 4.3L LX Choke Problem

Originally posted by dutch135:<br /> I'm learning to start my LX, but the restart after sitting has been a problem. An hour, or so, of swimming while anchored and it's like starting cold all over again. <br />Chris, are you aware of a solution to that problem also?
I started on iBoats 2,400+ posts ago. Looking for a solution to exactly that problem. I have had 2 different carb on the engine, I have friends with the same engine/carb with the same problem. I have talked to Mercruiser (they don't even acknowledge the problem exists), I've talked to carb specialist and when I tell them it's capillary action up the internal drillings in the carb all I get is 'That can't happen'. Well it is bloody happening!!! and every few months a 'new' owner comes forward on this forum and complains about the same thing. <br /><br />I hope someone from Merc is reading this because I'm getting jack of it!!! I want a fix!!! (no, not that sort of fix)<br /><br />I've tried lowering the float levels, I've put funny 'non-heat transfer' gaskets under the carb, The insides of the carb are so clean I DO eat my breakfast off it! Hell, I've even stood on one leg with my tongue poking out the right hand corner of my mouth when I start the engine.<br /><br />Does that answer your question? :D :D :D <br /><br />Chris................
 

dutch135

Petty Officer 2nd Class
Joined
Jun 23, 2002
Messages
143
Re: 4.3L LX Choke Problem

Chris,<br />What about a check valve before the carb? if no fuel can come into the carb, can it still drain out? <br />Have you done any fine tuning of that carb for performance? Anything simple that will make her run any better?
 
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