454 questions

lilmandavis

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Re: 454 questions

I always like to get long blocks anymore. TO me its not worth spending the 2 grand on parts when you can get the whole long block for the same price. Wth a 1 year warranty you cant beat it in the long run. take dons advise and research what will work and dont assume anything. big blocks are temperamental beasts. and expensive to keep redoing.
 

f_inscreenname

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Re: 454 questions

lilmandavis said:
I always like to get long blocks anymore. TO me its not worth spending the 2 grand on parts when you can get the whole long block for the same price. Wth a 1 year warranty you cant beat it in the long run. take dons advise and research what will work and dont assume anything. big blocks are temperamental beasts. and expensive to keep redoing.

No disrespect but these things are cheap compared to Mopar. I figure I will have less money in this whole new set up then I would just fixing my Mopar small block.
Will have the "long block" done for less then a grand (and thats buying the motor). Thats not my worry. Its all the stuff that attach's to the long block.
 

f_inscreenname

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Re: 454 questions

Hey guys, I have a line on a bell housing off of a Chevy / Volvo 280. The guy does not know if its a 12 1/2 or a 14" flywheel. He's just selling it. He does know the part, #835978
Anyone know what flywheel this is for?
 

Don S

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Re: 454 questions

The 280 drive was used on all sorts of engine, Volvo 4 cyl gas, Chevy gas and Volvo diesel
What you need to know is the model of the engine, not the drive.
That part number doesn't match anything in the Volvo parts catalog. It's probably only a casting number, but it doesn't help in identifing the housing unless you happen to have one with the same number.
I would guess that it's a 12" FW. simply because the 14" FW wasn't used with the 280 drives.
 

Don S

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Re: 454 questions

He states it just under the words NO RESERVE.
Volvo 260A, I got one, trust me, it's for a 12" Flywheel and will not go over the 14".
Sorry.
 

paulie0735

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Dec 6, 2005
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Re: 454 questions

Mark, the numbers on the rods and pan rails are as has been stated already, they are used as a guide to ensure the correct piston / rod assembly goes back into the right cylinder bore. When the blocks are cast, bored and honed they are they measured and a piston is matched to it. Same deal with the crank and bearings, con rods and main bearing caps get the same treatment. It’s all part of preparing and assembling the engine correctly. Bolting in the parts is about 1% of the engine building process! Precision machining, hand finishing and measuring are the key to a healthy and reliable engine. Take your time with this one, build it right, and build it once. Good luck.
 

f_inscreenname

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Re: 454 questions

Hey Paulie Nice seeing you again.

You bring up a good question. How am I going to get a kit for this thing if every cylinder, rod and main journal are a different sizes? I mean this is a virgin (never been cut) block and crank as far as I can tell. I checked every piston and bearing and nothing says they are anything but standard size. Now I know about filing piston rings but bearings? I have to buy a master kit soon (I need the valve seals out of it) and I was ready to buy one with 454 standard bearings and rings. Now I am confused.
 

Reel Poor

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Re: 454 questions

Do yourself a favor and have the crank checked for straightness and journal size. Have the big end of the rods checked to see if they're still round. Mic all the piston skirts to see if any have collapsed. Have the block bore checked to see if they are egg shaped. Your machinest will be able to tell you exactly what you need for parts.
 

paulie0735

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Re: 454 questions

Thanks, good to be back…………..

f_inscreenname said:
........ How am I going to get a kit for this thing if every cylinder, rod and main journal are a different sizes?

Well that’s what engine building is all about my friend........ It’s a specialist trade and requires specialist tools and measuring equipment to get it right. You really only have 2 options. A full machining and rebuild, to do that you purchase an over-size master kit and find a good machine shop who will machine your block, rods and crank to suit the parts (big bucks) or you do a 'non-precision' rebuild and hope for the best! I think you have found out the hard way about option 2. For what its worth and knowing your situation here is what I would do;
Forget the master kit.
Take the heads down to a reputable head shop and get them serviced.
Get the block chemically cleaned and machine honed with a torque plate fitted (machine shop will know what that means) and new cam bearings fitted
Have the rods resized and the crank checked for size and accuracy, grind if necessary.
Re use the pistons (they should be reasonable quality forged items)
Fit file back rings
Purchase bearings to suit the machining done
New cam and lifters (I would keep the cam close to original specs as that engine had a fairy healthy cam profile as standard)
Re-use the original valve gear
Replace the oil pump and timing set
With that you should be able to do the re-build yourself and the engine should be back to where it was when new. It will pull and extra inch of prop over the old Chrysler (maybe even 2”) so should show a worthwhile increase in performance but more importantly it will remain reliable and probably even use less fuel at cruise speed than your old engine.

Most important thing in my opinion is to take your time, you have a good 6 months of lay-up time so use it wisely, there are plenty of things you can be doing re the conversion from the old Chrysler to the BBC while the machining is being done (or while the bank account is recovering).

If you still want the extra 100-150 hp best you save up about $10k, getting the hp won’t cost that much but building it so it holds together in that old Nova of yours will consume every cent of it.
 

Reel Poor

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Re: 454 questions

I agree with Paulie and would add a set of rod and head bolts.
 

CodyGrizz

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Re: 454 questions

Balancing/matching the pistons is generally a good idea.We do it with all our race bikes. I know.bikes aint boats..but still. Makes sure the rotating mass is equal, will help on vibrations among other things. A good machine shop will rebore the block for the oversized pistons no prob and not that expensive. When you get into sleeving it, then you are adding some money. Have it all hot tanked so you can really get a good idea how she looks, and have it checked for cracks. A hairline crack that isnt a problem now could result in a huge problem later, and that would be a PITA after you spent the time/money to rebuild.
 

Bondo

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Re: 454 questions

I guess this all comes down to the Question,.....??....

What are you Thinking you're going to call a "Rebuilt 454",..??..??......

"Rebuilt" means Alotta Different things to Different People........

Before I waste my precious Single Fingered Strokes of the keyboard,.......
I Gotta Know...............:love:
 

paulie0735

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Re: 454 questions

It all gets down to the amount of bucks you wanna spend.... the more you do and the more parts you replace just adds to the total of the tape. Re bondo's comments..... I guess you need to set yourself a budget than stick to it. That will help determine what exactly you want to achieve with your rebuild.
 

f_inscreenname

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Re: 454 questions

Alright I think something has been lost in translation here.
The main reason I am doing this is even though my hopped up 360 could get the boat going I would have to run it very hard to keep it going. So I figured I could get a 454 (extra 200lbs) slap a big a$$ prop on it and bring the RPM’s way down. I am not looking to build a Nascar motor or anything. I figured I had a insane 300hp before. The 454 came with 340hp stock and that’s WOT at 4400rpms. A whole lot tamer then what I had for sure and more HP.
I figured a cam, intake and carb change would put me in the 375hp range and that was about where I wanted to be. Remember this is a 19’ boat. It wont take that much to get it going. Also I still plan on using my tried and true Volvo 270 with 280 trim. Another reason I want to keep the HP down to a normal level.
A simple refresh of the bottom end. Rings, bearings, timing chain, oil pump was the plan but now you guys are thinking to take it to a shop and have it built. Why? I have built a bunch of motors and this one is in the best shape of any of them to start with. The cylinders are clean (except for one small spot that easily honed out), All the bearings that came out were fine. I am going to look at all the numbers on them tonight to make sure none of them are screwy. Looks like I will have to trim the rings for the 8‘s and 9‘s pistons. No big deal.
Honestly if I thought there was any reason to send the motor to the machine shop it would be on its way. Like said, I do have months and a lot of different things to do. That’s why I seem a little overzealous about the whole thing. This is just one thing of a hundred to do before spring. Its just the bottom end will kind of dictate the direction for a lot of other things. Once I find a bell housing and get the bottom end built then I can figure out where the motor mounts go, then how the cooling will work ……..
So let me bring it back a notch.
I want to build a tame average 454 motor. Hell Brownie (Allan Brownie Brown / Donzi, Nova Marine fame) only had 375HP in his inboard 19 race boat. That should be plenty for me.

“ Brownie would run another one of his creations, a stock Nova19 and would go on to win the inboard division in the 1970 Miami- Key Largo race with it. "The boat had a single 375 hp Chrysler. She was stock in all other respects except for extra tanks, a special set of racing seats and a racing compass mounted on the foredeck."
 

Bondo

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Re: 454 questions

OK,........

So you're going to Refresh the motor,..... Not Rebuild it.....

Hand-fit Rings and Bearing will No Doubt give you All you're looking for.........
 

f_inscreenname

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Re: 454 questions

Refresh sounds like you did a oil change and tune up. How about restore with some tricks?
I haven’t decided on pistons yet but I am pretty sure I am going to stay with stock if I can. I am a little concerned about them right now. The rods are “stiff” on the pistons. I mean it only takes a couple pounds (maybe) of pressure to move the rod back and forth but in the past (the pistons I have dealt with) they would usually flop side to side under their own weight. Is that normal in a big block that hasn’t been run in while?
 

Reel Poor

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Re: 454 questions

They should flop. If the engine was run (wouldn't have to be to much) with the pistons tight like that (could have been from an overheat or water in the oil) it can cause the piston skirts to collaps and possibly egging of the cylinder walls. f_in, I would highly recommend, if you don't have to tools to check all the bottom end componants, that you let a machinist do it for you. Better to find anything out of shape now before you spend your money. It really would be financially worthwhile. If everything is good at standard, cool. If it's not, at least you know in advance.
 

Nova Nova

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Mar 21, 2006
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Re: 454 questions

I'm paying close attention here, even though I run a pair of Fords now. Both of my Nautiques ran 340 hp, 454's.
 
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