454 questions

[Reel Poor]

Re: 454 questions

Note the yellow line. There is a hole there but i'm not sure thats a bolt hole. it really looks out of place.

My .02 says forget the 12" flywheel and buy the later model 14" flywheel housing and change the shaft to the fine spline. That would eliminate a lot of problems. Except maybe the financial one.

 

[f_inscreenname]

Re: 454 questions

OK, I had to stop what I was doing to respond to you Don.
First off I do have a manual and it does not say to unbolt from block, bell housing or what ever. It just says engine.

Second I may have misstated with “rebuild” instead of “refresh” but I will be honest with you if it needed either I am surely capable of doing it. As for the comment of not knowing how a Chevy starter bolts up. The last Chevy starter I changed was on my 1980 Camaro and that was about 16 years ago. So sorry I may have forgot. Being this is all new again to me I will have a ton more stupid questions in the future. If you do not have time to bother and answer and think I am a pain then walk away and put me on ignore. This is a unique project as far as I can tell. Trust me if there was a website or book on how to do this I would be there or have it. As for the fly wheel and the plate. Just throwing out ideas. Now it would be stupid of me not to ask and find out later that a $20 piece of tin would have fixed me up. If it takes buying the kit for $500 as a last option then it will happen but this was supposed to be a backyard project.
Finally, It will work one way or another. Trust me. Worse case, I pull the Mercruiser out of the basement and put a transom in the boat this spring but I do not think it will come to that. Don I would love to have you along for this winter time project. I have a ton of respect for you bud but you will have to loose to doom and gloom.

Alright back to you R/P
Here is a couple shots and I hope (for my sake) you find what you are looking for.

 

[f_inscreenname]

Re: 454 questions

OK it just dawned on me what you want. Told you all I wasn't the brightest. 8) All the arrows are threaded bolt holes.

 

[Reel Poor]

Re: 454 questions

These two bolt holes would be used for the 12" flywheel starter.

 

[f_inscreenname]

Re: 454 questions

Man someone is good at photo shop. Even put the corner back on the block when he took the arrow out. d
Thanks for the info. Its been kind of my night for this stuff. Been working on a head. If I had the choice I would buy different ones but the money well is going to be short already. After critters have been living in them I spent the last 4 hours taking them apart and cleaning and polishing all the runners. With a little more work they will be good for a season or two until I get new. I thought they were trash when I took them off. I also brought the pistons in the house for the first time. Its been cold here since I got the motor. Noticed right away (after they sat inside for 2 or 3 hours) that the rods were a lot looser. Decided to put them in a zip lock bag, spray some WD-40 in it and threw it in the hottest water my water heater had to offer. Now they are as loose as can be. Must have been some gummy oil in there the WD is chasing out.d After I get them cleaned up and soaked in new HD30 I will take them back outside for a couple days to see if they stiff up again. My figures are crossed.

 

[Bondo]

Re: 454 questions

If you do not have time to bother and answer and think I am a pain then walk away and put me on ignore.
Don I would love to have you along for this winter time project. I have a ton of respect for you bud, but you will have to loose to doom and gloom.

Don't let Don bother you F in,...........

Don is a "By the Book" Marine Technician,...............
Not a Backyard Hacker, aka, Mechanic, like Some of Us..........


You got Lucky with that block,....
It's drilled for Either Starter,.....
Which means it can be run with Either sized Flywheel.......
As long as it's Balanced right.......

It's Possible that even if you can't find a 12" flywheel that's FOR a 454,.....
1 could be Rebalanced FOR it.....
Although probably Not as Cheaply as that Balance Plate adapter........
I've got 1 of those around here Somewhere, for a 400cid..... I was going to use it, But decided to go for an Off-balance Flywheel,+ a Full Balance job instead......

 

[f_inscreenname]

Re: 454 questions

No big deal, At least Don has answers most times then what I used to get when I first came to iboats many years ago. Back then some of the normal responses over a topic like this was. "That not USCG approved" or "you will kill your family doing that". I was definitely the black sheep of the family talking thru hull exhaust and HP but stuck to my guns and more came out to play after a while.

Thanks for the info on the starter. I have thought about rebalanceing a 12.75" flywheel but have not found out how to do it yet. I rebalanced a 318 Mopar for a 360ci the last time with a diagram I found on line. So far the only thing I have found about the subject is the plates.

 

[Bondo]

Re: 454 questions

I was definitely the black sheep of the family talking thru hull exhaust and HP but stuck to my guns and more came out to play after a while.

Ayuh,.......

That's the way I sometimes feel when Trying to Explain what makes a Marine Engine,..... Marine.......8)

Muchless when I'm Dissing the big Foam in a Hull debate..........

 

[f_inscreenname]

Re: 454 questions

No foam and I was about to buy a 454 out of a Nova (the car) and build it. I was just lucky to find a Merc with all the parts.8)

 

[Don S]

Re: 454 questions

I'm not giving up on ya, Just a lot of different things came together that made it sound like you were going to screw this thing up no matter what anyone said.
Going to a smaller flywheel might be ok in a car, but a boat? Stick the the big flywheel and get the right bellhousing. You will be money ahead in the long run. Especially at the price of that bellhousing kit. The same parts from VP are about 3 or 4 times that. and it includes the pilot bearing for your crankshaft.
As far as the starter goes, I assumed you took the old one off, therefor you should have known how it bolted on. That along with trying to use the smaller flywheel and the Refresh/rebuild stuff and I unloaded on ya. Sorry. But it will probably happen again before the job is done. I'm kinda like that ya know. Just don't take it too seriously when my alligator mouth overloads my hummingbird .......... well you understand.

 

[f_inscreenname]

Re: 454 questions

No big deal.
The motor didn't come with the starter but i can see why you thought what you did. I will get it all worked out one way or another. Just hate it when someone comes up later and says, "why didn't you do it this way" after I have spent a ton of money doing it the hard way. So with 80,000 members at iboats I may throw out a few off the wall ideas just in case someone has done it before.
It also will be done right. I have found in the past that done half a$$ you pay for it in the end. Just like you signature says.
In my own defense I have not seen some of these things before, ie; like a stamped oil pan rail and pistons. Even though I have built, refreshed many motors in the past. Also when it comes to boats I have been in Mopar land for many years and before that was a Ford for a few more years and that was a mercruiser. So Volvo to Chevy is another new thing for me. What seems like common knowledge is something I have never seen before so please bear with me.

 

[paulie0735]

Re: 454 questions

Mark, some info that may help you; As you know chev V8’s came with 2 size flywheels, while they share the same crank bolt pattern they are different and will not interchange without modifications. The SB up to 350 came with either but the SB 400 has a unique large flywheel and BB only came with the large. Another thing to consider is your starter. Basically, there are 2 different styles of starter. One has a straight across bolt pattern for the small flywheel and the other (which you would have) with a diagonal bolt pattern for the big flywheel. While the flywheels will theoretically interchange you must use the corresponding starter as the noses are different. Small blocks used either the small or large dia flywheels depending on what transmission / clutch assembly they were fitted with but I have never seen a BB with a small flywheel. As you also know by now you also must use the correct bell housing for the small/big flywheel and straight or diagonal bolt pattern starter nose. There is one final complication; Even though there are 2 starter nose types, there are 2 styles with the diagonal bolt pattern to fit the large flywheel. There is an aluminum one for automatic flywheels which WILL NOT fit into a bell housing for a manual flywheel. And there is a cast iron starter nose which will fit the bell housing for a manual flywheel as well as an automatic flywheel, this last fact may not be a concern with the Volvo housing but its worth considering if your looking for a new starter. Fitting the small flywheel is fraught with problems, I strongly advise that you purchase the kit as above, by the time you have your crank and small flywheel rebalanced, find and purchase the small bell housing and a new starter to suit you wouldn’t be saving much on the purchase price of that kit you found which has everything you need and your engine remains simple and cheap to maintain as there is no need for unique parts of balancing issues. Good luck.

 

[paulie0735]

Re: 454 questions

A mate of mine came good with a bit more info on the BB small flywheel topic....... some of the early BB Corvettes were fitted with a small flywheel but while its the same size its still different to the SB. Look for 1965 L-78, 1967- 69 L-88 or 1969 ZL-1 Corvettes.

 

[Reel Poor]

Re: 454 questions

A mate of mine came good with a bit more info on the BB small flywheel topic....... some of the early BB Corvettes were fitted with a small flywheel but while its the same size its still different to the SB. Look for 1965 L-78, 1967- 69 L-88 or 1969 ZL-1 Corvettes.

Those are rare as hens teeth and worth about 250 to 300 dollars if you find one. :^

 

[f_inscreenname]

Re: 454 questions

Thanks guys for the info.
I have come on to a couple set backs when it comes to this project. The first and foremost is the bell housing. Just don’t see them on eBay for some reason lately (my luck now that I need one) and the one I did see had no drive shaft or bearings and it was saltwater damaged. Ended up going for $200 bucks. So some time in the next couple months I will have to get the kit and be done with it. If I try to put something together myself I will end up spending about the same and have to do all the leg work also so I guess it’s the best option for the money.
The next f_in thing is the pistons. They are loose on the rods (like they should be) in the house and above 75* but if they cool off a little they get real stiff again. I have tried a couple different things and nothing has helped. Well it has some but… I don’t feel like I could sleep at night if I installed them and then let them sit for a couple months before I install the motor and started it. So it means pistons and more money. Add in a few other small issues and it became a little overwhelming. And that is the main reason I started this project as soon as I could. At least I still have time.
I have been a bummed about the whole thing the last couple days but then at our Christmas party at work last night I was talking to a couple of my boss’s friends (young, big time general contractors that have money and the boats to prove it) about my project. Showed a picture on-line of the motor I picked up and how much I paid for it. I loved the look on their faces and the lines that followed like, “I paid so and so for this bracket alone” or “those motor mounts are worth this much” and etc, ect….. So this morning I feel like (besides still feeling drunk) that I am back in the game. I made a big jump on the project by getting this motor but I guess now I will have to make some baby steps for a little while. It wouldn’t be one of my projects if it went like clock work but I will get it figured out eventually.

 

[Bondo]

Re: 454 questions

The next f_in thing is the pistons. They are loose on the rods (like they should be) in the house and above 75* but if they cool off a little they get real stiff again. I have tried a couple different things and nothing has helped. Well it has some but… I don’t feel like I could sleep at night if I installed them and then let them sit for a couple months before I install the motor and started it. So it means pistons and more money.

If I'm not mistaken,........

That would lead me to believe that the Rods need Resizing,....
as the Pistons are Pressed on to the pins,+ the Floating takes place in the Small end of the Rods.......

So it's Not a Piston Issue, but a Rod Issue.......

Right,..??..........

 

[f_inscreenname]

Re: 454 questions

Na, they are pressed onto the rods and the floating takes place with the piston as they are right now.
I am thinking about using these.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Spee...ItemQQcategoryZ33623QQihZ019QQitemZ8058967101
They will give me with 119cc heads 9.32:1
or these,
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Spee...tegoryZ33623QQihZ011QQitemZ320062165106QQrdZ1
They will give me with 119cc heads 8.56:1