4stroke making oil

[boater1234]

Ok i have a question that i have done a ton of research on.From what i gather and read on many forums when a 4stroke makes oil which is fuel getting past the rings into the oil on breakin,that means the rings did not seat right from what i have read.From what i have researched also is that if you don't break in an outboard somewhat hard right from the beginning the rings will never seat properly,is this correct at all?If that is correct then i was just wondering why the manufacture wants you to take it easy in the beginning of a breakin when the most critical time to break in the outboard is right from the start?That has me confused.

I'm just trying to learn some things here before i actually buy this new 20hp 4stroke suzuki or merc so i don't make any mistakes.From all the reading i have done,days worth you only get one right chance to set the rings so thats why i'm asking for some info and help here.If i'm going to spend a good amount of money on a motor i'm going to keep for a long time i want to make sure i do everything right so it stays running with no issues.So far from what i have seen it's like 50/50,some say run it hard from the start to seat the rings right,then you have of course follow the manual.I'm sure most of people will say follow the manual and i prob will but i still want to know the answer to why the manual says to take it easy in the beginning if you are suppose to run it in somewhat hard to seat the rings.Just curious for any info or facts anyone might know,thanks.

 

[Capt Ken]

Re: 4stroke making oil

Follow the break in instructions and you will have no problems. You reasoning is like saying, why spend money on a car when I might have a flat tire.

 

[Chris1956]

Re: 4stroke making oil

I had thought that "Making Oil" meant condensation of water in the crankcase. Gasoline should never leak past the rings in any significant quanity, and would boil off almost immediately.

Normally the water would boil off, as the oil would exceed 212*F, under running conditions.

 

[metriccrescentwrench]

Re: 4stroke making oil

Can't go wrong following the engine manufacturer's break-in instructions. Just do that and you'll be fine, don't worry about the opinions of a bunch of anonymous experts on the internet.

 

[jlh42581]

Re: 4stroke making oil

What you are talking about is a "mototune break in" and I am in that camp. I dont care what a manufacturer says. These engines in my mind are perfect for it.

In 2008 I took a brand new cbr600rr off the lot and faced the same question. I decided I was going for it. Its not just OPEN it up. You run it hard but you run it at different ranges also which I am sure you read.

At the 1200 mile mark I was on my 3rd oil change(get everything out) and switched to running amsoil full synthetic. When i took the bike for its 16000 mile valve adjustment they informed me of two things. #1 - valves were way out and it took them a full hour longer than normal to adjust them, they could tell I ran the bike like I stole it. #2 - they felt the need to tell me whatever I was doing to the motor to keep doing it as they had NEVER seen a cleaner engine on the inside. This is a factory authorized honda powersports dealer that sells and services thousands of bikes/motors/skis/lawnmowers a year.

In the end, think about what you read and only you can decide. I will never NOT mototune another motor.

 

[greenbush future]

Re: 4stroke making oil

It's a documented and known issue with some of the new 4 strokes, many owners are dealing with extra fluid in the crank case. I agree if you follow the break in guidelines from your manufacture, you should be just fine. You also have a warranty that would cover you if you did have an issue. I would follow it to a "T".

 

[JB]

Re: 4stroke making oil

We do not support or recommend violating manufacturer's instructions. If you, jlh, are smarter than the guys who designed it why aren't you designing them?

http://forums.iboats.com/non-repair-outboard-discussions/4stroke-making-oil-609609.html

 

[boater1234]

Re: 4stroke making oil

I have a question for the heck of it,plus i know this is off the subject a bit?Why can a etec be ran hard out of the box according to evinrude but a 4stroke or typical 2stroke can't?Isn't most of the technology today and materials today in all outboards made of the same metals as far as pistons,etc.....What makes them so different that one can be run like you stole it out of the box and all the others must be broke in,this is just a curious question?

 

[jlh42581]

Re: 4stroke making oil

We do not support or recommend violating manufacturer's instructions. If you, jlh, are smarter than the guys who designed it why aren't you designing them?

http://forums.iboats.com/non-repair-outboard-discussions/4stroke-making-oil-609609.html

Please direct me to where I claimed to be smarter than the designer. If you would also direct me to where I recommended anything.

He/she asked for any opinion on the subject. I personally have done exactly what they were asking about with phenomenal results. Many think that a high performance bike with more than 10,000 miles on it is destined for the track. I can say with certainty MY motor ran and made power like a brand new one when I sold it.

I believe my very last sentence was along the lines of... "Only you can decide based on what you have read what you will do."

If he/she wants to follow the advice of guys who have done this with high revving motors who are we to say no you are wrong? Their money, their motor, their boat.

No one recommended anything.

 

[Chris1956]

Re: 4stroke making oil

Boater, I had heard that e-TECs had an automatic "Break-in" mode where they used extra oil, for the first few hours, and then went to the normal amount of oil. It would seem to me that not running WOT, and varying speeds, which is what a lot of manufacturers recommend for break-in, would be a good idea. If BRP doesn't recommend that, maybe that is to hype the product as manufacturers tend to do. Remember this is the same group that cut the e-TEK oil line and said it was fine to run it that way.

Do new cars need a break-in period these days? I do not remember that on my '09 Altima, but I do remember my '80 Nissan specified a break-in period.

 

[steelespike]

Re: 4stroke making oil

Worried about break?, in get yourself a Etec. No required breakin, no service for 3 years or 300 hours.

 

[boater1234]

Re: 4stroke making oil

Steelespike i would go with a 25hp etec if my 1436 lowe jon would hold it but i think a 146lb outboard would probally sink my ship,lol,thats why i'm contemplating a 20hp 4stroke for it.It's rated for up to a 20hp outboard,believe me i would think a 20hp would make a 1436 190lb tin boat just flat out get it.I kind of lead towards the line of what chris 1956 says,these motors especially suzuki outboards are built on their car designs,that is on suzuki's website also.So if a car doesn't have a breakin why would a 4stroke outboard be any different,just a question i'm asking.I can't see how 20hrs of breakin benefits anything,that seems a bit extreme.

I think if i go 4stroke i will just vary the rpms up and down for a few tank fulls of gas but i see how maybe going balls to the walls asap could not be the best thing,so far i'm just saying i have owned 5 brand new outboards and have just went hard i mean right from the box after a good 15min idle out of the box to at least give it some good warm up time.I def believe in warming the motor up everytime before use.I have never once had an issue with all 5 outboards and i had them a min of 5yrs a piece,of course i'm saying that was the smart or right thing to do but as a kid i never knew much better and was always anxious to getter done.

 

[TOHATSU GURU]

Re: 4stroke making oil

Typically, all brands and sizes of four-stroke outboards "make oil" at lower RPM ranges as they tend to run too cool and allow fuel blow-by. Keep in mind they have raw water cooling systems and a thermostat can only compensate for so much temperature variation. That's the reason why running a synthetic oil is not necessarily a good thing.

 

[boater1234]

Re: 4stroke making oil

You know TG i'm starting to really understand what you mean by that.Not to use synthetic oil in an outboard because it's not needed.Iv'e read thousands of posts all over and it seems people just seem to be scared to go wot with 4strokes,the reason they always give is they think the motor wasn't built for that and probally can't handle long wot runs,the other reason is for fuel economy of course.I just don't understand that.Wouldn't it be accurate to say as long as you stay between the manufacture specs of the usual say 5000-6000 rpms you can run them wot as much as you want without any issues?

Also the only way i can see that maybe running synthetic oil would be a benefit is like maybe the way i run,i run wot prob 80%of the time so i know my motors are def getting to full operating temp.I could be wrong on that to.All i know is in the last few mths i have been just reading and reading on these 4stroke outboards and they are amazing machines.I have been trying to find people who tear down 4stroke outboards on multiple forums and rebuild them just to see what they say for the heck of it and as usual they all have different opinions.

The one thing they all had in common was don't be afraid to run them hard at anytime after breakin as they are built for that.One of the things most stated to was 4strokes really don't need to be broke in very long,is that accurate?I have no idea.But over 95%of the guys said that,these were guys who claim to tear down and rebuild thousands of outboards.

They stated the most important thing is just make sure you vary your rpms up and down all around to ensure every part of the internal engine has been worked in properly.Most of that was achieved after a few full tanks of gas according to them.Like i said this is just a ton of stuff i have read,accurate?I haven't got the slightest.I have been trying to see the advantages from carb to efi also.Seems the best thing about efi is better starting and if you have efi and the conditions change around you or you move to dif places the efi can self adjust as if you have a carb you need to do adjustments.Most people claim better fuel economy also and better power response,now this is just what i have read,not IMO.I like learning about this stuff, i never knew there was so much to this to learn,i 've been a 2stroke guy and they are simple machines.lol.

 

[Silvertip]

Re: 4stroke making oil

Making oil is a combination of things but the two main factors are 1) prolonged low speed operation and 2) incorrect prop (too much pitch). An engine that cannot reach the upper end of its recommended rpm band is being "lugged" very much like a standard transmission car that is not shifted properly (such as climbing hills or towing heavy loads in too high a gear). The combination of the two factors causes oil dilution and if not corrected wash the bearings and cause premature engine failure.

 

[boater1234]

Re: 4stroke making oil

So silvertip what your saying is that it's ok to run a 4stroke at the high end of the rpm range safely on long runs?I keep reading in a ton of forums were people just say that 4strokes are not built for running hard for long periods of time,IMO i just can't believe that to be true.You should be able to run that thing as hard as you want as many times as you want without any issues as long as you stay under the max rpm range.If thats what helps from making oil then that solves one issue.

Now when you mean over propped,for instance i'm going to buy the brand new 20hp 4stroke suzuki efi,it's propped with a standard 10pitch prop,my boat is say 190lbs,me at 270,friend is 200,motor is 97lbs,all gear maybe 50-75lbs, so the boat has a total of say over 600lbs with a 10pitch prop,just in you opinion do you think i will over rev the engine?Do you think i may need to go with a 11 pitch prop,thats not alot of weight for the motor to push.I know i need to prob get a tiny tach but i just wanted some opinions also on this.

 

[boater1234]

Re: 4stroke making oil

Well i guess i just hope i never have to worry about my motor making oil,if i do then i guess i will know the culprit of it now.

 

[metriccrescentwrench]

Re: 4stroke making oil

just in you opinion do you think i will over rev the engine?Do you think i may need to go with a 11 pitch prop,thats not alot of weight for the motor to push.I know i need to prob get a tiny tach but i just wanted some opinions also on this

The only way anyone is going to be able to accurately answer that question is if they happen to have the EXACT same boat and engine. What you need to do is make sure that when the boat is lightly loaded (the lightest load it would normally see in actual use) the engine runs at or near the top of the max rpm range.

 

[Sea Rider]

Re: 4stroke making oil

On lightly loaded boats standard props delivers near it's max rpm stated fot that engine, check. If with your current load at wot rpm drops too much, check with an induction tach how much you are underproped, go 1 pitch down to increase rpm a bit if needed. Good to maintain at least medium rpm between min, max rpm when at wot.

Happy Boating

 

[boater1234]

Re: 4stroke making oil

Yeah thats all good info,i see i'm just going to have to break down and buy a tiny tach, i want the max rpms out of my motor which would be 6300 according to suzuki.Good idea though of just running it bare bones to see if she over revs,then add the weight to see what the dif is.

I'm like getting excited about this motor as it just seems to be well worth the money.From what i gather it holds right around a qt of oil,most of the people said to just fill it up to like 3/4 on the dip stick just in case it does make oil in the beginning there will be like 1/4 left on the dipstick and if it hits the top hole of it that means it made oil.I got royal purple breakin oil for it.It's not synthetic,its a high zinc and phosphorus oil specifically for breakin.I'm going to use that for like 2-4hrs then drain it and change the filter,use one more qt of the royal purple oil breakin for like 2-4hrs and drain again and change oil filter to make sure i can get as much metal shavings out as possible so the engine runs super clean.Same with the lower unit,2-4hrs,drain,repeat again and then fill with royal purple synthetic lower unit oil.I swear by that oil,it's got one of the strongest oil films i have ever seen or felt.

I have drained oil from a ton of lower units and the reg based oil is great and works well as it should but when i cleaned up my hands the oil cleaned up rather easy with soap and water.I have drained my personnel lower unit oil in my motors which i always use royal purple and i have to say that stuff is so strong as in the film strength it doesn't wash up easy as the reg oil does on your hands.I have to wash and wash and wash and still can feel a slight film on my hands after all that.I'm so confident in that oil i bet it would leave a strong film on the internals of the lower unit even after fully drained,that you could prob run it for a while with little to no oil but the film left on it and it would probally still work for while and not burn up the lower unit.Iv'e never used a lower unit oil like it,yeah expensive but whats $20 to protect a motors gears for 6mths,Plus one bottle lasts a yr.

Still not 100%sure if i will switch to full synthetic oil in the crankcase after breakin.I may just stick with a good marine oil,non synthetic.If i do go synthetic it will be amsoil or royal purple marine oil.They are both FC-W CERTIFIED.So i have all the confidence in the world using them.I know it's not needed but i will be running a ton of wot so it may protect better.