50 hp Force Starting problems - runs great when it does start

[Jiggz]

Re: 50 hp Force Starting problems - runs great when it does start

I got stocks of new plugs. Let me see the color of the lettering and get back to you asta la vista. So when you put this on and test them outside of the cylinder grounded they do not put out spark? Or when you use a spark tester? If there's spark. Have you made comparison on the color of the spark between these and the old style ones? I would assume the old style puts out a larger and bluer spark. Hopefully, the Q series will work for you.

 

[Jiggz]

Re: 50 hp Force Starting problems - runs great when it does start

Check the left over stock I got but they are UL18V and the color of the lettering is brown/orange NOT green. Well, the "Q" series is the only one left to check. Or you can check the following.

http://www.themarinedoctor.com/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?action=print;num=1250105499

I've got a '89-125HP and uses UL18V I might try the BUHW just for the heck of it.

 

[djsforce]

Re: 50 hp Force Starting problems - runs great when it does start

So I found old stock "new" plugs where the L76V labelling is brown and I bought the marine pack (24 plugs in all!). Arrived in the mail yesterday and I was thrilled to start using my boat and I had enough spark plugs to last the rest of it's life.....or so I thought. Same deal as the other new plugs, it cranks and cranks without a hint of actually starting. Put the old plugs in and fired right away and ran awesome. So right now the life expectancy of my boat is resting on 4 old blackened plugs. I still haven't tried the RF plug. It sounds desperate, but I am desperate, I might try and blacken the end of the plug with a lighter then see if it will work? I just don't understand this

 

[foodfisher]

Re: 50 hp Force Starting problems - runs great when it does start

Have you looked into the plug wire connection to the plug? Clean, secure, crisp connect.

 

[Jiggz]

Re: 50 hp Force Starting problems - runs great when it does start

So I found old stock "new" plugs where the L76V labelling is brown and I bought the marine pack (24 plugs in all!). Arrived in the mail yesterday and I was thrilled to start using my boat and I had enough spark plugs to last the rest of it's life.....or so I thought. Same deal as the other new plugs, it cranks and cranks without a hint of actually starting. Put the old plugs in and fired right away and ran awesome. So right now the life expectancy of my boat is resting on 4 old blackened plugs. I still haven't tried the RF plug. It sounds desperate, but I am desperate, I might try and blacken the end of the plug with a lighter then see if it will work? I just don't understand this

You should try NGK BUHW plugs. They are also surface gap but without the resistor hence it affects your radio or CD player. But most modern radio and CD player already has RF filters in them so you should be good to go.

 

[djsforce]

Re: 50 hp Force Starting problems - runs great when it does start

Thanks for the suggestions. I have the original set of wires that I added an new boots to and I have two aftermarket wires. With either set of wires I still have the same problem. I looked into the QL76V plug and it a special order (and expensive) and will wait s bit before I try. I will look into NGK BUHW plugs too.
My new idea - the new spark plugs show good spark when I hold it to the head, but they aren't igniting the fuel in the motor. Old blackened plugs work well. Does the piston come close enough to the plug end that maybe the electricity is jumping to the piston and with the fast movement it doesn't give it a chance to fire the fuel? I don't recall putting new spark plugs and having them work since I installed a new head gasket about 4 years ago. Maybe the gasket is a little skinnier than the original and the spark plug is now just that little bit closer to the piston? Any thoughts? I hope to give my theory a try this weekend by adding an extra washer to brand new plugs so it's set back a tad from the piston. At least this gives me hope!

 

[foodfisher]

Re: 50 hp Force Starting problems - runs great when it does start

It would seem, a spark is a spark. Sparking to the piston would be a bad thing. Dieseling on the glowing black carboned plugs? Really grasping at straws here.

 

[Jiggz]

Re: 50 hp Force Starting problems - runs great when it does start

I'll wait for result when you try the NGK BUHW. Try searching this site and come to find out the heat range of the L76V (heat range 76) for some reasons is way higher than the QL76V (heat range: 12). I'm not really sure if that is accurate because according to standard labeling the number between the letters is supposed to indicate the heat range. Anyways, check it out:
http://www.sparkplugs.com/results_cross.asp?pid=QL76V

 

[mvself]

Re: 50 hp Force Starting problems - runs great when it does start

I've been following your posts and I'm curious if your experiment worked. I also have a 50 hp Force and it does the same thing. It will start once in a while and once it does it will run fine. Trouble is I'm always fearful of shutting it off then starting it again. More than once I've had to either use the trolling motor to return to the dock or be towed by some other good samaritan. I don't claim to be any sort of marine mechanic, but I did check my engine and it has the same Champion L76V spark plugs. The battery seems to be strong, it has fuel. I think the mixture is correct. I've had it to the marina and they say it started and nothing is wrong with it. I take it to the lake, it starts once or twice then won't start again. The shop said they didn't do anything special to start it. I'm at my witt's end. Please let me know if you find anything that works. By the way, soon after I first bought the boat I took it in for a check up and I believe they replaced the spark plugs so I don't have the old ones unfortunately.

 

[djsforce]

Re: 50 hp Force Starting problems - runs great when it does start

I ended up getting a great season out of my boat. So I thought I would try to figure out why new spark plugs are not working, in hopes of being ready for next season. I tried getting everything nice and warm with a long ride, then put in new plugs-would not start. So my final attempt was the NGK BUHW plugs-it would not start. Now with these plugs I thought it sounded closer to starting, but still nothing. So I stored the motor for the season. Maybe my ignition doesn't have the full output necessary for the open gap plug? I also thought the resistance on the plugs could be different? Keep in mind I'm not that familiar with a multi-meter. I set it on ohms 2000K. Of the 27 plugs I tested only 7 showed no resistance with readings of 000. 7 of them showed some resistance ranging from 007-1512 and 13 showed at 1 (current couldn't travel from the top to the electrode at the bottom). I thought I was on to something. I pulled the plugs that had worked well all season and they read 000 and 000. But when I tested the NGK BUHW they both showed 000 and 000, so I'm not sure why they wouldn't fire? Next year I'll make sure to try two L76V plugs with 000 readings to see if that works. Any other suggestions? Do you think having a mechanic check the timing would be beneficial?

 

[jerryjerry05]

Re: 50 hp Force Starting problems - runs great when it does start

ATTACH=CONFIG]166784[/ATTACH]





QL 76 V/RFI or L 76 V is the factory specs.

Get 2 inline sparkies.Make sure they are good.
Test on a running motor of somekind.
I bought 2 and 1 wouldn't work out of the box??
The second style is to measure the strength of the spark.
It should jump at least 7/16"
Possible the stator isin't strong enough to fire certain plugs??

 

[djsforce]

Re: 50 hp Force Starting problems - runs great when it does start



I think I got it! I was looking into getting the spark plug tester where you measure the jump. A great suggestion and a great tool that I wasn't aware of. This afternoon I figured I would check the ohms on the stator and while getting to the wires I found both yellow wires coming from the stator location were exposed and the insulation was crumbling off (picture 1). When I peeled the black wire insulation off, you can see how bad the yellow wires are (picture 2). One wire in particular is badly frayed. After seeing it, I'm surprised it worked as well as it did this summer. I think it explains why I was getting spark, but not as strong as it should be. I'm confident it is the problem. I am thinking of starting it up after I fix the wire....just to be sure for next summer. All your advice has been greatly appreciated!

 

[djsforce]

Re: 50 hp Force Starting problems - runs great when it does start

I got ahead of myself and I'm back at my original problem. Worked well with the old plugs, would not do anything with the new ones. Today I tested the stator (keep in mind I'm not that familiar with a multi-meter). For my model I'm to test the Blue and Red to engine ground. With the blue wire I could not get any ohms reading just the solid 1 no matter what setting on ohms. From what I found online it should be 3250-3650. The red wire to ground was giving me different results. At the start it was 000 ohms then I got 63 back to 000 then 63. I should get a reading of 75-90. I also noticed a drip of what looks like black rubber coming from the stator, so it may have gotten hot at some point. So maybe my stator doesn't have the necessary output to fire new plugs?

 

[jerryjerry05]

Re: 50 hp Force Starting problems - runs great when it does start

Where you getting the specs for the stator?

Outboard ignition . com
CDI electronics . com
Both have test procedures.

If you have a melting condition on the stator.
I'd guess there is something going on there???

 

[djsforce]

Re: 50 hp Force Starting problems - runs great when it does start

Thanks. I redid the testing of my stator and it isn't to OEM spec. according to Outboard ignition site. Outboard ignition is great site and it explains checking/installing in an easy fashion-I can even understand it! I'll do some research before I decide if I can do this repair myself. In the picture, I'm pointing to the glob on the stator. The poor yellow wires noted in my earlier postings may have caused it to get hot? I feel like I'm heading in the right direction with this repair. Thanks. not sure how I got the picture up side down

 

[djsforce]

Re: 50 hp Force Starting problems - runs great when it does start

Success! I installed a used stator and a new rectifier. It fired almost instantly from storage yesterday. Took out the old plugs and put in the brand new ones-fired instantly! Feels good to have fixed it myself and all of the advice I received was truly appreciated. I'll admit I was close to giving up on this motor. I haven't been out on the lake with it yet, but I can tell that it's running stronger. The last few years I'd always have to advance the throttle to get it to start, even when it was warmed up. Yesterday it would start easily on idle-which I did several times just because I could.

 

[foodfisher]

Re: 50 hp Force Starting problems - runs great when it does start

I know the, I did it myself feeling.

 

[GoFastr]

Re: 50 hp Force Starting problems - runs great when it does start

Interesting post on how the new plugs are not working. I'm assuming they are identical type/style plugs?

I have a '99 40hp Force and probably the only difference between the two are the carbs, so I'm interested in the outcome of this. I recently changed the plugs in mine (didn't really need to do it) and it still works fine. In fact I never have had to choke it when cold and it starts so well. It wasn't so well taken care of before I got it so it's even more impressive.

 

[foodfisher]

Re: 50 hp Force Starting problems - runs great when it does start

I know the, I did it myself feeling.

Caviot: With the help of these folks.

 

[jerryjerry05]

Re: 50 hp Force Starting problems - runs great when it does start

The I did it is a great feeling.Even after almost 30 years of fixin stuff I still get that good feeling.
The I did it with the help of a few of my close friends(food,jerry,jiggs,etc) is a good feeling too.