800 GPH b pump overcome by tear in throtte bellows?

[Captain Ben]

Boat sank

Progressive Insurance denies claim. They determined the bilge pump was overcome by a leak throught the throttle cable bellows in a Merc A1 I/O.

Facts:

Battery was hot when boat went down
bilge pump was operating (still tests good)
Boat has 2 batteries, connected to shore power via 5 Amp smart charger

Progressive says they won't cover the claim because this is a maintenace item which caused the sinking of the boat.

Worth fighting?

I think there was another cause of the sinking and they were quick to blame it on the leak, when the possible leak rate (unknown) through that bellows would be impossible to overcome the bilge pump on shore power

 

[RWilson2526]

Re: 800 GPH b pump overcome by tear in throtte bellows?

Well the shift cable bellows is the smallest of the three....they say though that a bilge pump can typically pump about 1/2 of what they are rated for so at 400 gph you are at 6.6 gallons a minute which is filling a 5 gallon bucket every 45 seconds roughly speaking....do you think it was leaking slower than that? If the drive was down and it was just a small crack in the bellows than you may be right it may have been something else.

can you trailer the boat back to the water and sit it on the trailer and see if your bilge pump can keep up with it?

 

[smokeonthewater]

Re: 800 GPH b pump overcome by tear in throtte bellows?

heck nearly all boat sinkings at dock could be maintenance items.... I think I would have a good look at my policy.... And find a new ins company when this is sorted out

 

[airdvr1227]

Re: 800 GPH b pump overcome by tear in throtte bellows?

You should fight it... at least some. The insurance company will come to the easiest conclusion for them hoping that you agree. If you put up resistance they might reconsider. If it's a big enough sum perhaps a visit to an attorney is in order.

 

[ajgraz]

Re: 800 GPH b pump overcome by tear in throtte bellows?

Of course it's worth fighting. All insurance companies of any type will attempt to deny claims on the first go-round for any reason they can come up with.

BTW, what are they claiming was not properly maintained, the bilge pump or the bellows?

 

[Home Cookin']

Re: 800 GPH b pump overcome by tear in throtte bellows?

I'd ask them exactly what "maintenance item" they are referring to. Perhaps they have a standard length of time for replacing bellows. How old was the boat and how old were the bellows?

 

[joed]

Re: 800 GPH b pump overcome by tear in throtte bellows?

If not the bellows then what caused the sinking? Did the bellows crack or did someone slice it? If sliced not a maintenace item.

 

[jaxnjil]

Re: 800 GPH b pump overcome by tear in throtte bellows?

If not the bellows then what caused the sinking? Did the bellows crack or did someone slice it? If sliced not a maintenace item.

good question

also, if you plan on fighting this. do you have paper work to support the bellows have been maintained and changed in a timely manner?

i dont see the insurance co. being out of line here

 

[45Auto]

Re: 800 GPH b pump overcome by tear in throtte bellows?

I had the shift cable boot come completely off my B3 drive one day.

I had cruised over to a neighbor's house and had no idea there was a leak until the bilge pump came on and started pumping water all over his dock. It is an 800 GPH bilge pump and it easily stayed ahead of the leak. It would run about 3 minutes then stop for about 5 minutes before coming on again. Took the boat home after visiting for a half hour or so, got it out of the water and found out that the shift boot had come completely off the transom shield. I installed a second bilge pump (1800 GPH) on my second battery with an independent float switch the next day. My boat would have sunk if the factory auto bilge pump switch or bilge pump had failed.

 

[scoutabout]

Re: 800 GPH b pump overcome by tear in throtte bellows?

Either you got a crappy insurance company or I got a good one. Our SeaRay sank at the dock some years ago. I blamed the extraordinary storm it sat through while the adjuster ruled it inconclusive but a hull loss nevertheless.

The insurance company cut a cheque immediately, then gave me the boat back to boot (which fetched another thousand sold off as a salvage project).

During the assessment phase, the service manager at the marina was being a twit about producing an estimate in a timely manner and when pushed, started making vague threats about telling our insurance company it sank due to poor maintenance which would have them refusing to pay. When I contacted our agent about it she said, "Wrong - you paid the premiums, your boat sank, you get paid. Short of something intentional, you're covered for anything else."

 

[sltintexas]

Re: 800 GPH b pump overcome by tear in throtte bellows?

as an ex-insurance guy i would fight it. Your state should have a state board of insurance that you can make a formal complaint through. Submit one.

I would also ask where in the policy/insurance law failure to maintain your boat is cause for refusal to pay a claim.

I know each state has different laws but in Texas I never saw any evidence of that. In fact I saw the exact opposite. I know we paid claims on damage caused by owners failure to maintain items. (ie, water damage from worn out roof, water damage from poorly maintained shower tile, vehicle damage from poorly maintained vehicle).

again, each state might as well be a different country as they can have different laws so ask them to show you the exclusion in the insurance law that OKs their actions. Your policy may not have all the detail that the law has.

 

[sltintexas]

Re: 800 GPH b pump overcome by tear in throtte bellows?

....well i may have to retract my above statements. I know on my Texas policy under exclusions are listed


caused directly or indirectly by

"gradual deterioration of any kind of including, but not limited to, weathering, rust, corrosion, mold, we or dry rot, osmosis, delamination or blistering."

and "mechanical, electrical, or structural breakdown".

 

[jeepnsam]

Re: 800 GPH b pump overcome by tear in throtte bellows?

I read on many other boating forums (I only SHOP at iBoats though) that Progressive is THE WORSE insurance company for boats. I'm with AAA which I hear is much better with boats.

 

[kenmyfam]

Re: 800 GPH b pump overcome by tear in throtte bellows?

Fight it and be sure to take the time to read all the small print before taking out another policy.

 

[ajgraz]

Re: 800 GPH b pump overcome by tear in throtte bellows?

....well i may have to retract my above statements. I know on my Texas policy under exclusions are listed


caused directly or indirectly by

"gradual deterioration of any kind of including, but not limited to, weathering, rust, corrosion, mold, we or dry rot, osmosis, delamination or blistering."

and "mechanical, electrical, or structural breakdown".

Wow, that pretty much excludes everything but an Act of God.

 

[smokeonthewater]

Re: 800 GPH b pump overcome by tear in throtte bellows?

or vandalism or accident

 

[Home Cookin']

Re: 800 GPH b pump overcome by tear in throtte bellows?

Vandalism and accidents are covered.

"Mechanical breakdown" is interesting--is a failed bilge pump a "mechanical breakdown" that can indirectly lead to loss (sinking) after you hit a rock?

if a sea **** fails, causing the boat to sink, is that "mechanical breakdown"?

Or is the intention not to insure the motor if the water pump fails and the head seizes?

 

[sltintexas]

Re: 800 GPH b pump overcome by tear in throtte bellows?

"Mechanical breakdown" is interesting--is a failed bilge pump a "mechanical breakdown" that can indirectly lead to loss (sinking) after you hit a rock?

disclaimer- I am not an expert, I 've been out of the insurance biz for about 9 years so I may be off.... but

One word you will hear in insurance lingo is "proximate cause"..basically what started the whole mess in the first place. If you collided with a rock which caused something indirectly to fail....the proximate cause was colliding with the rock- the fact that your bilge pump failed because it was old should (I would think) not be an issue because the damage was caused by a covered peril/event (the collision).

 

[sltintexas]

Re: 800 GPH b pump overcome by tear in throtte bellows?

"
if a sea **** fails, causing the boat to sink, is that "mechanical breakdown"?

Did the sea **** fail because of a covered peril/event? If it just mechanically failed because of age or is worn out... the way I read this, not covered.

 

[mtrainTurbo]

Re: 800 GPH b pump overcome by tear in throtte bellows?

I am just looking at this from a logical point of view -

The boat is an older boat. Bellows are typically overlooked as a regular maintenance item.

Unless you can prove the bellows were replaced within, oh, say the last 2 - 3 years, AND it can be proved that bad bellows were the cause of the sinking, then I'd say they have a case.

Your next step is to determine what sank the boat, and for that, a detailed inspection of the bellows is in order.