88 150vro - flat fuel ball - idle miss - long post and continued

[71Windsor]

Re: 88 150vro - flat fuel ball - idle miss - long post

Re: 88 150vro - flat fuel ball - idle miss - long post

wilde1j - I have checked the vent by sending air pressure back down the line and checking for fuel at the filter. And the vent is clear.

Why would I have no problems at all priming the ball up from a empty ball to firm. I will check the pickup at the tank again for blockages but Ive done that last year when i completly cleaned the tank.

You do raise an interesting point with the anti-syphon valve and im not sure where that is located. I do not beleive the tank has one seeing how the fitting is simply a 90 brass fitting extruding from the tank. Where are the common places for one to be located? Ill just find it if possible and remove it completly.

And portable fuel tank is the next thing im going to try.

I was told last year that this was due to water in my tank and ethanol. Which was probly a factor but should not be now.


I guess befor I get any deeper I should do the wise thing and get that second tank and try it out.

Ill run it this weekend on the other tank and go from there.

 

[71Windsor]

Re: 88 150vro - flat fuel ball - idle miss - long post

Re: 88 150vro - flat fuel ball - idle miss - long post

borz170 - all of my fittings are male fittings already I dont have any of the other styles of fittings from the tank or to the motor. Would that valve be at the engine where it passes through to the pump?

 

[borz170]

Re: 88 150vro - flat fuel ball - idle miss - long post

Re: 88 150vro - flat fuel ball - idle miss - long post

I'm not sure. Does the 90* brass fitting screw into the tank? I think this is set up different than mine. Try the portable 6 gal tank...

 

[71Windsor]

Re: 88 150vro - flat fuel ball - idle miss - long post

Re: 88 150vro - flat fuel ball - idle miss - long post

Yea its threaded into the tank. Im going to walmart tonight for a portable.

I dont believe i have that valve the fitting on the tank looks like any old brass fitting found at any home depot, the fittings on my filter are both male, and the fitting to my engine is also a male. I do not believe I have an anti syphon problem.

From what I gathered and type of carb issue will NOT result in the problem im having with the primer ball though. So it has to be a pickup problem. Or a filter problem. Im going to get that portable and run it without the filter hooked up and then with the filter hooked up and test if its a problem with my filter/seperator or if its strictly the tank.

Now none of this explain why im having an issue with visually seeing and hearing fuel coming through the carbs while im priming it. So a carb rebuild still sounds to be in my future. I have the kits coming so thats no big deal.

 

[mikesea]

Re: 88 150vro - flat fuel ball - idle miss - long post

Re: 88 150vro - flat fuel ball - idle miss - long post

Have you taken all the fittings apart from the tank?You mention you had water,I have seen where brass and alum mixed with water cause corroson,you may have a buildup of corrosion,or other muck in the fittings,add to that I have also seen fuel lines delaminate to the point they look normal ,BUT,and embolism type siuation where the inner liner of the hose collapses causing restrictin,that is why I suggest the portable tank.ELIMINATE everything to the motor,going strait with outside source.Your filter UNIT may also have gunk plugging it.Not just the spin on filter ,but the unit itself.

 

[wilde1j]

Re: 88 150vro - flat fuel ball - idle miss - long post

Re: 88 150vro - flat fuel ball - idle miss - long post

wilde1j - I have checked the vent by sending air pressure back down the line and checking for fuel at the filter. And the vent is clear.

Why would I have no problems at all priming the ball up from a empty ball to firm. I will check the pickup at the tank again for blockages but Ive done that last year when i completly cleaned the tank.

You do raise an interesting point with the anti-syphon valve and im not sure where that is located. I do not beleive the tank has one seeing how the fitting is simply a 90 brass fitting extruding from the tank. Where are the common places for one to be located? Ill just find it if possible and remove it completly.

And portable fuel tank is the next thing im going to try.

I was told last year that this was due to water in my tank and ethanol. Which was probly a factor but should not be now.


I guess befor I get any deeper I should do the wise thing and get that second tank and try it out.

Ill run it this weekend on the other tank and go from there.

The A-S is usually located right at the tank outlet ... if you disconnect the fuel line there, you should be able to see the ball check in the first fitting in the outlet ... as mentioned above, if there is a ball, remove the fitting, and if the tank is below the motor, just drive the ball out and replace the fitting. The only way the primer can get sucked flat is by pulling a vacuum, due to the check valve in the ball or something else upstream (towards the tank).

Using a second known good tank is an easy way to remove the tank as a problem area.

 

[71Windsor]

Re: 88 150vro - flat fuel ball - idle miss - long post

Re: 88 150vro - flat fuel ball - idle miss - long post

mikesea - will do!

wilde1j - I was afraid it would come back to the tank I actually after completly cleaning it and running new hose ruled the tank out like a fool and put my floor down and painted it for this year. ughh. so probly pulling it back up its looking like.

Thank you every one Im going to get some serious answers this weekend with this boat.

Frank Wood
Pennsville NJ

 

[71Windsor]

Re: 88 150vro - flat fuel ball - idle miss - long post - getting longer

Re: 88 150vro - flat fuel ball - idle miss - long post - getting longer

Alright fellas, I spent the better part of the afternoon going over some things on the boat.

- I pressurized the fuel tank with 40psi of air and checked for leaks. -Good!
- I checked my primer ball by seeing that the air only passed in one direction. -Good!
- I blew 40psi of air down the fuel line into the tank and and watched the gauge to see how quickly it would build. -Built in 2 or 3 seconds. which is fine.
- Blew 40psi of air down vent and checked for fuel from the line - shot out like a water gun!

- I cheked my secondary filter and it was jammed with uglies. (some debree from the newly cut hoses and stainless couplings.) Which I am sure if it made it through the primary to there then it made it through the fuel pump into the carbs.

- And lastly. I checked my primary seperator filter. I could not visually see anything in this filter. HOWEVER is noticed that the inlet and outlets where crossed. (i.e. the fuel from tank was on the out port and primer ball line on the in port) I really dont know if that would play a part on the ball collapsing but maybe one of yous do?

- Tomorow its off with the carbs, for visual inspections until my new gaskets floats and needles come in. Im thinking I can clean my jets with 25psi of air and maybe a priece of piano wire? Ive done it to regular vehicle carbs and its worked fine. As far as aluminum bolws go Im not so sure i will tank that route. I am going to take some sizes with the micrometer and check the mating surface plane.

Thanks for all the un-intentional inspiration and wisdom from all thats helped.
the 4th is among and i love nothing more that sitting on the boat at wildwood nj watching the fireworks and rocking in the waves.


oh p.s. i also come to the conclusion that im not charging any more. but ill work on that one later. i have 2 brand new batteries in the mean time. i ran my last boat with out a rect. and managed well. as soon as i get this issue resolved ill start searching information on that.


Frank Wood
Pennsville, NJ

 

[71Windsor]

Re: 88 150vro - flat fuel ball - idle miss - long post

Re: 88 150vro - flat fuel ball - idle miss - long post

Ok post update:

-Carbs off.
Top Carb had debree in the needle preventing the float from dropping.
Middle Carb bad bowl gasket
Bottom Carb debree in needle again clogged main jet.

- I checked my surfaces and they are good.

- Kits arrive tomorow so ill get them cleaned and together and out on the water one day this week with another gas tank and ball on board lol.

 

[71Windsor]

Re: 88 150vro - flat fuel ball - idle miss - long post

Re: 88 150vro - flat fuel ball - idle miss - long post

Im back again!

Well, my kits have not arrived yet. But a good friend of mine gave me his carbs off of a Johnson 140 (late 80's) and claims he had them rebuilt 2 years ago or so and that he got rid of his motor becuase the lower unit went bad.

They look to be in great shape. So im wondering could I use his carbs, clean them out a little, though he said he drained them and shot some cleaner through them when he took them off and they may have an hour tops on them.

Or should I go ahead with rebuilding my carbs? I was thinking i would vacuum lock the other set of carbs up which ever i dont use and let them sit just incase. If there interchangable.

p.s. i edit alot im bad with my grammer lol.


Frank Wood
Pennsville NJ

 

[mikesea]

Re: 88 150vro - flat fuel ball - idle miss - long post

Re: 88 150vro - flat fuel ball - idle miss - long post

First problem will be your short a carb.140 = 2 carbs 150=3 carb.Then there is the probability that the carb throats are different sizes,and the early engines had a mechanical choke.Yours is a primer .I would rebuild the original carbs.

 

[71Windsor]

Re: 88 150vro - flat fuel ball - idle miss - long post

Re: 88 150vro - flat fuel ball - idle miss - long post

mikesea - i figured that much. ive never seen any of what hes talking about i was hoping i would get lucky and have a spare set of carbs. Ill just do safe thing rebuild mine and carry on.


Im almost there! ha! few more hours of work and 72 hours of an enjoyable weekend

 

[mikesea]

Re: 88 150vro - flat fuel ball - idle miss - long post

Re: 88 150vro - flat fuel ball - idle miss - long post

Something I just picked up after reading this a gazillion times. "This year I have not checked my filter/seperator becuase i dumped it about 4 times last year while working on this problem"
You didn't change the filter after cleaning crap and WATER from the tank.?Im going to ASSume the squeeze ball is after the filter,(it doesnt have to be)so any kind of resistence in the filter can be the culprit.After you put your carbs back on,if the problem is still there(I think it will be)bypass the filter/seperator.you can get a 3/8 double male hose barb.Not a bad piece of equipt.to keep in the old toolbox.I wouldnt be suprised if your problem is at the filter.If not that,something is floating in your tank .or crud from the water in tank scenario in one of the fittings at tank.Thats my latest guess

 

[71Windsor]

Re: 88 150vro - flat fuel ball - idle miss - long post

Re: 88 150vro - flat fuel ball - idle miss - long post

mikesea - the reason i havent changed it yet would be im not sure the filter is the correct one. The napa filter i am using (i believe its 2552) not positive though is a direct replacement for the filter i had befor this which i believe was a biotech or something like that. And it is changed now.


I have another question though, ok, Say I want to run a small inline filter befor my primary, not under the hood like it was, just to be able to look into the filter and say hmm my tank is really picking up alot of crap. Just an average inline clear filter. Do you think that could slow my fuel delivery down to my primary thus starving the engine or are most fuel filters ok. I know they all have a specific rating for flow and density and ect.

I would like to use one just to visually see crap befor it hits the primary where I cannot see it.

Redundant, Yes. Its more of a "telltale" for me.

 

[71Windsor]

Re: 88 150vro - flat fuel ball - idle miss - long post

Re: 88 150vro - flat fuel ball - idle miss - long post

Another question...

Are all three of my carbs interchangable? Or is the top carb different like some of the other models. They all appear to be exactly the same but just to double check.




Frank Wood
Pennsville NJ

 

[ezeke]

Re: 88 150vro - flat fuel ball - idle miss - long post

Re: 88 150vro - flat fuel ball - idle miss - long post

Carburetors should be kept as a set if at all possible. One carburetor will have different linkage. The jets (orifices) for each carburetor are listed in the parts catalog: http://epc.brp.com/default.aspx?brands=ej&lang=e

 

[71Windsor]

Re: 88 150vro - flat fuel ball - idle miss - long post

Re: 88 150vro - flat fuel ball - idle miss - long post

I meant to go back and edit that, I answered my own question. lol thanks though, early morning brain fart.... I had an idea and didnt have coffee to kick it into action lol.

 

[71Windsor]

Re: 88 150vro - flat fuel ball - idle miss - long post

Re: 88 150vro - flat fuel ball - idle miss - long post

Well Im getting a bit angry now. My carb kits did not arrive YET and where i purchased them from has no tracking information.

So I called my local guy which was a last resort and he has 2 kits there 31$ each OUCH!!! but hes got two of them and has a third overnighted for me im going to pick them up and get into my crabs tonight I figure it will take about an hour to go over each well and taking my time. so ill only get 2 done tonight any way.

I also picked up a glassbowl fuel strainer today that im going to put inline befor my primary to see what im getting out of my tank. Im beginning to think my tanks been compromised by the neighbors kid whos had it out for me since i moved in. Its a 5/16th in/outlets so it should alow plenty of flow from the tank and give me a good idea of whats going on.

If this bowl drains i absolutly know there something in my tank.

Probly a ziplock bag but the strainer is easy to clean and change and i snagged 5 extra filters just incase i start seeing alot of crap being picked up.


Frank Wood
Pennsville NJ

 

[71Windsor]

Re: 88 150vro - flat fuel ball - idle miss - long post

Re: 88 150vro - flat fuel ball - idle miss - long post

Alright, post update.


I actually was able to pick up all 3 kits last night he found one just hanging out.

My carbs where CLEAN!!!!! they looked brand when i got them apart. but i went ahead and replaced everything any way. Wasnt to bad took me abour 4 and a half hours of so to get them completly done and back on the motor.

I started it back up after all that was said and done. I couldnt tell what th eball was doing, it seems to stay firm but like i said it really only flattens at higher rpms.


But my idle miss was still extremly evident. It really dont try to stall just a cough and carries right on.

My plugs have less then 2 hours on them.

But i guess ill go ahead and change them again any way.

Tonight i will check compression, and timing. Then go for a ride.

Its always had that miss i guess since the day i got it never really bothered me i would just like to get a smooth idleing engine.

 

[71Windsor]

Re: 88 150vro - flat fuel ball - idle miss - long post

Re: 88 150vro - flat fuel ball - idle miss - long post

double post removed.