89 force 50 HP how to adjust new float with new needle

[pnwboat]

Re: 89 force 50 HP how to adjust new float with new needle

The only connection on the starter is the positive cable. Don't let the color of the cable fool you. Someone has probably changed the cable at one time or another.

If there was a problem with the interlock switch, when you turn the key with the throttle in neutral, nothing would happen. The interlock switch prevents the starter from engaging when the throttle is pushed forward and the gears are engaged. Since your starter is engaging when you turn the key, the interlock switch is probably OK.

The problem that you have is insufficient spark to the spark plugs. Whatever wires you moved to check the resistance of the stator is most likely the cause. Check all the wires on the terminal block that the stator, CD Module and trigger are connected to. That's where you will most likely find the problem. Make sure the wires that come from the stator are not rubbing against the flywheel and shorting to ground.

 

[Eddie Rivera]

Re: 89 force 50 HP how to adjust new float with new needle

Ok so if the only connection to the starter is positive, whey is it showing as ground?
I used my voltmeter - red in the solenoid cable coming from the positive battery and the black lead tester on the cable going to the starter and it gives me a reading of 12.6 volts?
What does that mean?

 

[Eddie Rivera]

Re: 89 force 50 HP how to adjust new float with new needle

I tested the interlock switch by doing this - when I leave the shifter as it is or I pull out and move forward the starter cranks. Both sides of the interlock switch show as ground with a 12.6 v reading.
When I put the shifter on gear the starter will not engage and only one side of the interlock swift shows a ground.

 

[MickLovin]

Re: 89 force 50 HP how to adjust new float with new needle

Hit the button on the interlock switch while testing across it's terminals with an ohm meter, it should have continuity or in other words it should close when you push in the button and no continuity when left out. Your cable from the starter solenoid to the starter is positive, you are getting a reading through the starter to ground. If you took the starter off the bracket and removed it from the motor, you will not have continuity to the motor, as you will have removed it's grounding. For another check, take your cable off the starter, test your cable to ground, it won't have continuity, then test your starter motor while attached to it's mountings from where the cable was disconnected to ground, you will have continuity.
I attached some pictures of my 75hp and my 100hp electrical starter pics, the large gauge cable going to the bottom of the starter, can be disconnected and tested to ground, it should have a high resistance, then if you check where that cable came from on the starter which is normally a stud, test it to ground and you will have continuity, as you are testing the starter motor circuit as it relies on the body of the motor for it's grounding, under the starter of my 100hp the second picture you can see a black heavy gauge cable bolted to the motor, this is the main negative from the battery.
Also there should be, or maybe it's just my Chryslers, a black cable from the ground of the regulator to one of the bolts of the starter motor., You may be able to see it on the 100hp. Hope this helps.

You asked how to check polarity on the cable going to the starter, As I said before it is the positive, but you can check this by, disconnecting it off the starter, shorting the solenoid terminals where both large gauge cables attach and then reading the voltage of the cable which was disconnected from the starter to ground, it should read 12+ volts

 

[Eddie Rivera]

Re: 89 force 50 HP how to adjust new float with new needle

I tested the old rectifier and the test shows ok for one way current exactly like in the link you gave me.

 

[MickLovin]

Re: 89 force 50 HP how to adjust new float with new needle

Ok tha's is exactly what the interlock does, it stops you from starting the motor in gear, so when you put it in gear and test the other side it should be 0 volts to ground, as the switch will open up when in gear, ok so that is right.
The reason as stated above for getting a voltage from the red from the battery side of the solenoid to the other large cable going to the starter, is due to the motor circuit which gets it's grounding from it's mountings, if you on bolted the starter and isolated it from the motor you won't get 12 volts. What you are finding is fine, go back to what pnwboat said, it has got to do with the cables you disconnected in your last post and you had it running.
My suggestion is you buy a manual and read how each part is incorporated, so you know what you are looking for and not being mis-lead by things which are actually right, don't worry, I have done exactly what you have done and asked the exact same questions LOL, luckily I have a lot of electrical background which has sometimes saved me.

 

[MickLovin]

Re: 89 force 50 HP how to adjust new float with new needle

go back to when you had got it going and work from there. as pnw says possibly a loose connection causing an intermittent problem.

 

[Eddie Rivera]

Re: 89 force 50 HP how to adjust new float with new needle

Micklovin - I got your point on the starter. It will show ground due to the starter bracket being grounded and the ground comes back to the solenoid. When the starter is activated by the switch it then closes and sends positive energy and when it crashes with the brackets ground the starter's motor then spins. Great lesson.
So if I tested my old rectifier and results are great - should I reconnect the old one and undo all the wire connections I made for the new radio shack rectifier - should I just move around the wires and check them to make sure something is not getting grounded and stealing spark?
I feel I'm so close now - I'm so fatigued. Please advice ???

 

[pnwboat]

Re: 89 force 50 HP how to adjust new float with new needle

The case of the starter is the ground connection. Since the starter is bolted to the block, that's how the starter gets it's ground connection.

Your starter is working fine. It turns the motor over when you turn the key right? Check those wires on the terminal block and from under the flywheel. Sometimes the stator wires will rub against the flywheel and expose the wire strands which touch ground killing the spark.

 

[Eddie Rivera]

Re: 89 force 50 HP how to adjust new float with new needle

I have all the wires from the stator over protected as they come out from the stator and around the packs and all around to avoid contact. So I will check all wires again. I'm just unsure about putting the old rectifier back cuz I had a hard time rewording that new rectifier to its new connectors. Or just feel lazy to redo - I got my son on his way here with a service manual specifically for my force 50 hp from 89 to 92 I believe. Hopefully that will help.

 

[MickLovin]

Re: 89 force 50 HP how to adjust new float with new needle

LOL know the fatigue feeling mate, personally I would go with what pnwboat is saying, check every lugged connection to see if it is just holding on and not really crimped correctly or has corroded with few strands attached inside. I am unsure if you have connector block or not, but if you don't and they are just lugged, replace the lugs with new ones if loose or corroded, I use automotive insulated crimp lugs or links. The problem is a lot of the time, corrosion or loosened connections, so worst come to worse re-lug the cables you have had problems with if you suspect they are loose or corroded, also you may have to cut a little of the ends of the cable (not too much) as this is where they normally corrode and could cause high resistance between the lug and the cable.

To be honest, if you got it running go back to what you did to do that and nut it out from there, worse problems to solve are intermittent problems, but they are normally a loose connection.

 

[MickLovin]

Re: 89 force 50 HP how to adjust new float with new needle

Can also be a bad ground.

 

[pnwboat]

Re: 89 force 50 HP how to adjust new float with new needle

The fact that you were able to get it started earlier today would indicate that you're close to solving the problem....I hope LOL! Just need to look at what you did just prior to it starting. Maybe just coincidence that it started or maybe something that you touched or wiggled. Who knows?

 

[MickLovin]

Re: 89 force 50 HP how to adjust new float with new needle

The fact that you were able to get it started earlier today would indicate that you're close to solving the problem....I hope LOL! Just need to look at what you did just prior to it starting. Maybe just coincidence that it started or maybe something that you touched or wiggled. Who knows?

What he said

 

[Eddie Rivera]

Re: 89 force 50 HP how to adjust new float with new needle

Okay guys we really did it this time --- one of you guys gave me a blog from Last year where I my self wrote that when I pushed on the packs it would turn off -- I wrote that and that was the problem again -
Two things were happening one - something is touching something and not giving me enough spark maybe I am over protecting the wires and I am putting two wires together that should not be together or something is getting crushed when I screw the pack on to the motor.
I have a brand-new stator so those wires are good however I will go through every single wire and connect it in a better way- or maybe when I move the wires back-and-forth so much I am breaking part of the strand.
The second problem I had was that when it finally turned on it would not stay on, and as I was staring at it I started to think about it the I just meant to the air mixture screw and I started to mess with it and that is how I let it stay on by itself. I called my son and told him that the book says to do one full turn back from the sitting position and I thought I was doing that but he said that I was only doing half a turn so then I went ahead and did the full the full turn and problem solved.
Now my motor is running dry with no water leaks. I will do other adjustments once every thing stabilizes.
I cannot believe that after a year of working on replacing the Exhaust gaskets and the stator and the carbs and other things it came to something like this again but I am glad that I have you guys on my side as my boating angels and I thank you on behalf of my four-year-old son my wife and I and my whole family - "thank you so much" May you all be blessed.
Thank you Micklovin thank you Pnwboat thank you Jerry.

 

[Nordin]

Re: 89 force 50 HP how to adjust new float with new needle

Eddie, as I am from Sweden I am not so good at English. Can you explanin what issues you had. Did you have two problems? #1 bad connections at the terminalblock and #2 wrong adjusted air/fuelmixture screw.
I am glad you got your Force 50Hp back on track.

Nordin

 

[MickLovin]

Re: 89 force 50 HP how to adjust new float with new needle

Okay guys we really did it this time --- one of you guys gave me a blog from Last year where I my self wrote that when I pushed on the packs it would turn off -- I wrote that and that was the problem again -
Two things were happening one - something is touching something and not giving me enough spark maybe I am over protecting the wires and I am putting two wires together that should not be together or something is getting crushed when I screw the pack on to the motor.
I have a brand-new stator so those wires are good however I will go through every single wire and connect it in a better way- or maybe when I move the wires back-and-forth so much I am breaking part of the strand.
The second problem I had was that when it finally turned on it would not stay on, and as I was staring at it I started to think about it the I just meant to the air mixture screw and I started to mess with it and that is how I let it stay on by itself. I called my son and told him that the book says to do one full turn back from the sitting position and I thought I was doing that but he said that I was only doing half a turn so then I went ahead and did the full the full turn and problem solved.
Now my motor is running dry with no water leaks. I will do other adjustments once every thing stabilizes.
I cannot believe that after a year of working on replacing the Exhaust gaskets and the stator and the carbs and other things it came to something like this again but I am glad that I have you guys on my side as my boating angels and I thank you on behalf of my four-year-old son my wife and I and my whole family - "thank you so much" May you all be blessed.
Thank you Micklovin thank you Pnwboat thank you Jerry.
View attachment 227661 View attachment 227662

LOL so that was your original post I posted, I am glad you got it running mate. Just sounded to close to your problem not to post

 

[pnwboat]

Re: 89 force 50 HP how to adjust new float with new needle

You're the one that did all the work. Good job!

 

[Eddie Rivera]

Re: 89 force 50 HP how to adjust new float with new needle

Nordin- these were the problems after I re-installed the power head due to changing the exhaust gaskets:
Initial symptoms:
1) initially it turned on and after a few minutes it turned off and never started again.

Problems discovered:
1) the sheared flywheel key because I installed the key the wrong way --- solution = replaced bad F/W key with new one and used valve grinding compound to to lap or rub the flywheel on the crankshaft without the key and re installed the flywheel with 80 lbs of torque.
2) the carburetor was leaking fuel from the bowl --- solution = changed the 3 gaskets from the carburetor the 2 small ones that go on the bowl's holding screw and the round bowl gasket, I didn't change the gasket between the carb and the block because it looked good - maybe I should have I also replaced the float and the main needle and cleaned everything on it.
3) the ignition system was checked one system at a time, everything seemed to give the right resistance but when I loosened the terminal block and moved wires around to remove the 2 green wires from the stator to the rectifier the motor did start --- solution = I went to radio shack to buy a replacement rectifier for $4.50 and re-attached all the wires to the new rectifier but it still did not turn on after I connected everything "because some wires or a wire is either touching rubbing or loose as I put everything back an it's all nice and tight eve though I over protected many wires from touching something is still not letting me get a full spark because I was getting a spark but with the pack (coils and module) loose it started.
4) the motor started on the fast idle position but once I returned the shifter to its normal idle position it would die --- solution = I had the air mixture screw adjusted wrong so I re seated it and returned it one full turn and not half turn as I had it. Now it idles by it self. I'm sure minor additional adjustments are needed but motor starts - idles - and stays on thank God!

Ironically one if you guys gave me a post where last year it was me saying the same thing about the pack an the wires, but this time we had the flywheel key issue and the carbs float and needle changed so everything was a suspect. The main indication was that the motor never coughed with anything I did and had fuel and spark just not strong enough spark. I will post a short video about what I did and found to help others.

For ever thanks to all you I-********** angels for your help and patience I wish you all blessings, the most positive energy and karma.

 

[Nordin]

Re: 89 force 50 HP how to adjust new float with new needle

Okey, thanks I am at this forum to help everyone with troubleshoting their Chrysler/Force engines because i love this engines. Easy to maintain/work on and pretty good machines. "May the Force be with you" and I am very glad that you and your Force is back on the water.

Nordin