98 SeaRay 190BR - Engine out and noted voids

[beech2000]

Re: 98 SeaRay 190BR - Engine out and noted voids

just grind it out till it's concave n fill it...... I wouldn't have glassed it in the first place... just filled with gel n sanded smooth

I'd hit it with a 40 grit flap disc on my cordless angle grinder... just lightly tickle it till I had about a 1/16-1/8" dish to fill....

remember gelcoat isn't paint, it goes on thicker than paint

Yeah I probably should've taken that route but got scared following the YouTube video, so I decided to lay in some glass. So long as I can achieve the right look with time I will be satisfied........ Hopefully that is.

 

[DeepBlue2010]

Re: 98 SeaRay 190BR - Engine out and noted voids

I would still glass over it after grinding. the laminate in this picture just doesn't look good to me. It failed for a reason, it is weak laminate. If I am grinding it down, I am further weaking it even more. I would sure like to compensate for what I removed out of it & Reinforce its original weakness by at least a layer or 2 of CSM. Not saying it is the right/wrong way. It is just what I would do. This is just me.

After galssing, you should be able to insert - at least - 5 sheets of paper under a straight edge that spans the repair area. This will roughly equal 20 mils of gelcoat.

 

[Woodonglass]

Re: 98 SeaRay 190BR - Engine out and noted voids

Take a R/0 sander with 40 grit and sand out what you've done. Dish out the damaged area. Clean it all with acetone. As DeepBlue suggest tear don't cut (this will make em kinda hairy which is a good thing and will make em lay up easier and better) a couple of pieces of CSM to lay in the dished out area. One should pretty much fill the area and the other should be a bit smaller. Lay the larger one first by dabbing it with resin, don't brush it, and the smaller one on top of it. The patches should still leave the area still a bit low. Now mix up some Gelcoat paste and fill the area leaving it a bit HIGH. As DeepBlue suggests it should be at least 20 mils thick. now Start with 100 grit and work all the way to 1000 grit wet sanding to polish the gelcoat. If you do a good job color matching it will almost disappear. That's my recommendation.

 

[beech2000]

Re: 98 SeaRay 190BR - Engine out and noted voids

I would still glass over it after grinding. the laminate in this picture just doesn't look good to me. It failed for a reason, it is weak laminate. If I am grinding it down, I am further weaking it even more. I would sure like to compensate for what I removed out of it & Reinforce its original weakness by at least a layer or 2 of CSM. Not saying it is the right/wrong way. It is just what I would do. This is just me.

After galssing, you should be able to insert - at least - 5 sheets of paper under a straight edge that spans the repair area. This will roughly equal 20 mils of gelcoat.

I used 5 shredded pieces to build deepest areas of .055" now with the resin it's above the rest of the area which suggests that deepest void was in fact only really .045" to begin with. I guess I'm a bad measurer but really worse at lay up. Will sand it down once back home and figure out next step. Thanks so much all!

 

[beech2000]

Re: 98 SeaRay 190BR - Engine out and noted voids

Take a R/0 sander with 40 grit and sand out what you've done. Dish out the damaged area. Clean it all with acetone. As DeepBlue suggest tear don't cut (this will make em kinda hairy which is a good thing and will make em lay up easier and better) a couple of pieces of CSM to lay in the dished out area. One should pretty much fill the area and the other should be a bit smaller. Lay the larger one first by dabbing it with resin, don't brush it, and the smaller one on top of it. The patches should still leave the area still a bit low. Now mix up some Gelcoat paste and fill the area leaving it a bit HIGH. As DeepBlue suggests it should be at least 20 mils thick. now Start with 100 grit and work all the way to 1000 grit wet sanding to polish the gelcoat. If you do a good job color matching it will, almost disappear. That's my recommendation.

So I understand dish out overage area right? Then more glass lay up then gel?

 

[Woodonglass]

Re: 98 SeaRay 190BR - Engine out and noted voids

I'm basically saying you over filled the area and it needs to be dished out and filled with gelcoat paste to the thickness of 20 mils as DB suggested.

 

[DeepBlue2010]

Re: 98 SeaRay 190BR - Engine out and noted voids

It takes 20 layers of CSM to make a laminate 1 inch thick.

Source : http://www.fiberglasssite.com/servlet/the-68/Fiberglass-Information,-and-How/Detail

you applied 5 layers, so you got good 1/4 of an inch fresh laminate. Grind this down in a dish shape until you are able to insert about 5 sheets of paper under a straight edge that spans the repair area. Feather the edges. When griding is done, clean the area with Acetone multiple times. Use painters tape to mask around the repair area. Then apply your gelcoat with a brush if it liquid or with a plastic spreader if it is past and and make it a little higher that the repair area to account for shrinkage and the sanding and polishing. if you find it hard to get the thickness you need in one application, let the first application cure and apply another layer.

Keep in mind that for the gel to cure, it you need to cover the final layer with something to prohibit the air from touching the final layer. In liquid gelcoat, you can add a liquid wax that will migrate to the surface and seal it from air. For the paste, you can cover it with wax paper or the trasparent plastic photo copier type. If you have a contour and the paper will not conform, spary some PVA.

Let us know if any of this is unclear or if you need more detailed walkthrough

 

[beech2000]

Re: 98 SeaRay 190BR - Engine out and noted voids

It takes 20 layers of CSM to make a laminate 1 inch thick.

Source : http://www.fiberglasssite.com/servlet/the-68/Fiberglass-Information,-and-How/Detail

you applied 5 layers, so you got good 1/4 of an inch fresh laminate. Grind this down in a dish shape until you are able to insert about 5 sheets of paper under a straight edge that spans the repair area. Feather the edges. When griding is done, clean the area with Acetone multiple times. Use painters tape to mask around the repair area. Then apply your gelcoat with a brush if it liquid or with a plastic spreader if it is past and and make it a little higher that the repair area to account for shrinkage and the sanding and polishing. if you find it hard to get the thickness you need in one application, let the first application cure and apply another layer.

Keep in mind that for the gel to cure, it you need to cover the final layer with something to prohibit the air from touching the final layer. In liquid gelcoat, you can add a liquid wax that will migrate to the surface and seal it from air. For the paste, you can cover it with wax paper or the trasparent plastic photo copier type. If you have a contour and the paper will not conform, spary some PVA.

Let us know if any of this is unclear or if you need more detailed walkthrough

Yup fish out of water hear!

I see from picture alone I need to sand more.

The gel-coat thing has me wondering if I should purchase spray on. I don't think I have enough with patch kit.

PVA?



So understand the gel will need sealed after application? I thought it was ready to sand 1 hour after application.

 

[DeepBlue2010]

Re: 98 SeaRay 190BR - Engine out and noted voids

Gelcoat is pigmented polyester resin. Poly resin is – normally – air-inhibited which means that air will inhibit the cure of the very – first few mills – top layer if it is exposed to air. This means that the surface will remain tacky and will gum the sand paper if you try to sand it. This is not a bad thing per se.
This exactly what you want if you will continue to add laminates in subsequent sessions. But for the final layer, it is not a good thing. You need to seal this final application from air you need to add wax to the mix or you need to seal the final layer completely from air by spraying PVA (Polyvinyl alcohol) which dries out as a layer of thin plastic that can be peeled away or dissolved with water would call the company that produced this paste and ask them if you need to add wax or seal the last layer.

 

[beech2000]

Re: 98 SeaRay 190BR - Engine out and noted voids

Just got off the phone with Spectrum Color. They said the patch kit once catalyzed is turn key and will cover like Vaseline using putty spatula to the size of about 5 Silver Dollars. Looks like I'll need to order more.
They also sell quart sized kits that come with the activator and wax for the final coat. This kit is usually sprayed on. So should I order another patch kit or go ahead and buy a quart of the stuff and spray away.
Years ago I worked for a major Airline and we were forced to paint our Airbus 300 fleet which started out polished with two aqua colored stripes to Matterhorn white polyurethane so not a big deal to shoot it. Thank god it was only to the french fleet. (Guess the airline?)
I do own a small cheaper HVLP but not sure of tip size.

 

[Woodonglass]

Re: 98 SeaRay 190BR - Engine out and noted voids

You sure don't need a quart for that patch. Another Kit would prolly do the job. It's up to you.

 

[DeepBlue2010]

Re: 98 SeaRay 190BR - Engine out and noted voids

^^^ totally agree. Just give what you have a try and see if you will get good coverage. If you need, you can always order more.

 

[DeepBlue2010]

Re: 98 SeaRay 190BR - Engine out and noted voids

@ OP, so what happned? I am curious to see how did it turn out!

 

[beech2000]

Re: 98 SeaRay 190BR - Engine out and noted voids

Not finished. During the sanding process I got over zealous and thinned the surrounding areas. No big deal due to many other areas in bilge I decided to address. I got a little busy after the holidays and now ready to finish and put her back on lake. So I ordered quart of gel from iboats and have it now.
I have been watching Andy Millers Boatworkstoday.com YouTube series and ready to tackle. I do have a question though. Andy uses PVA to cure top coat. I read to add the surface wax agent to final coat works best. I will be applying the product with paint brush. Thoughts?