99 sea ray won't turn over.

[beason]

99 sea ray with 3lt merc.

Battery charged over night, got ready to start for the first time this year and all I get is a loud click, and the voltage gauge dives. Any way to test out the starter without removing it? It started fine last year. Anything else to check?

Thanks in advance.

Update:

This is what im working with.

starter

other part

big picture

I know the starter, from working on cars. I assume the smaller part is the solenoid. I dont know what the part up on the block is.

I get 12v to the big red wire on the starter, and 12v to the smaller two that are connected to the same stud. Im assuming those go elsewhere to power other items. There is also what looks like a relay on that post.

There is a small yellow wire that goes to the part on the firewall. it has switched 12v when i turn the key. there is also a small ground wire.

one of the wires from the big post on the starter goes to the bottom of this piece on the block. it also has 12v. When i turn the key, the other large wire turns on, but it seems its only getting 6-7v. that seems to be the wire that then leads to the switch post on the starter (smaller yellow wire), which also shows 6-7v.

on the old cars, you could use a screwdriver to arc across the big post and small post. is this safe on the boat? if i do so and the starter turns, that would indicate the 6v im seeing at the smaller wire is the problem.

Sorry for the wall of text, but i tried to troubleshoot as much as i could.

Thanks!!

 

[beason]

Re: 99 sea ray won't turn over.

OK. service manual says that part on the block is the "starter slave solenoid". I can only assume this should be reading 12v in and out when i turn the key.

anyone?

bueller? bueller?

 

[Don S]

Re: 99 sea ray won't turn over.

Battery charged over night, got ready to start for the first time this year and all I get is a loud click, and the voltage gauge dives.

The loud click (probably a clunk) and the volt meter dropping sounds like the engine won't turn.
Remove the spark plugs and see if you can turn the engine by hand and see if there is any water in the cylinders. If you still can't turn the engine, remove the outdrive and try again. A rusted up gimbal bearing will prevent the engine from turning.

 

[Bondo]

Re: 99 sea ray won't turn over.

OK. service manual says that part on the block is the "starter slave solenoid". I can only assume this should be reading 12v in and out when i turn the key.

anyone?

bueller? bueller?

Ayuh,.... The connections on the starter are Rusty, 'n Corroded,...

Take 'em apart, 'n Clean 'em,...
The Ground wires too....

 

[beason]

Re: 99 sea ray won't turn over.

you think its that serious don? i hope not.

just an update. I pulled that slave solenoid off, and bench tested it. 12v passes though it just fine off my power supply in the garage.

I put it back on the boat, and although the input is reading 12v, when i turn the key, the output is only getting ~6.5v.

I will try the plugs, but its been in the storage lot for a few months, i dont see how water could be in the cylinders.

I have a new gimbal to put in, if it comes to that. (its going in anyway..)

Thanks for the info!

 

[beason]

Re: 99 sea ray won't turn over.

they do have a little corosion on the big terminal. Ill clean it up and see what that gives me.

Thanks.

 

[beason]

Re: 99 sea ray won't turn over.

oh, and the starter got kinda hot. Its not burn you hot, but hot to the touch. I guess i should let it rest for a bit.... :facepalm:

 

[beason]

Re: 99 sea ray won't turn over.

ok, plugs removed. nothing in the cylinders. left one out so i can go get new ones. might as well....

still cant turn engine over, but i cant really get to the crank pulley. i try to turn the upper pulley, but the belt slips. so i dont know for sure if its locked up. The cylinders dont look bad, or rusty.

i pulled the hot side apart and cleaned all the rings back to clean copper. put all that back together and still the same issue. Didnt get to the ground side before the dinner bell rang, ill get that next.

i still cant understand the 6.5v on the back side of that slave solenoid..

 

[beason]

Re: 99 sea ray won't turn over.

ground side clean. I dont see a ground wire to the starter. I assume its grounded though its mount to the block. Ive ran out of ideas. Is the next step pulling the starter? Can a normal auto place that tests car starters test this one?

can i jump the slave solenoid? will it hurt anything to bypass it for testing?

 

[pyrotek]

Re: 99 sea ray won't turn over.

Sounds like something is frozen. As stated above, I think next step is to remove outdrive or pull starter for bench test.

The 6.5V is likely because the starter is pulling so much current, that the battery can't deliver it all and the voltage is sagging. You can probably damage the starter if you attempt to keep starting it without it moving. It's pulling a lot of current through the windings, and without it turning it converts all that to heat which can damage the motor windings.

 

[beason]

Re: 99 sea ray won't turn over.

ok. thanks!

i plan to pull the starter today, and the lower is coming off next weekend for bellows, gimbal, and impeller. Hopefully that will get it going again.

i put some grease in the gimbal last year, i guess i didnt put enough.

 

[Fishermark]

Re: 99 sea ray won't turn over.

Battery charged over night, got ready to start for the first time this year and all I get is a loud click, and the voltage gauge dives.

Have you tested the battery?

Just because you charge it overnight doesn't mean it will hold a charge.

 

[beason]

Re: 99 sea ray won't turn over.

the gauge on the dash, and the voltage tester both read 12.7v. all the other electronics work, and are strong.

 

[gk-da-man]

Re: 99 sea ray won't turn over.

Had similar problems with my Mercruiser 165 and it turned out to be bad battery cables. The cables had corroded internally (granted my boat is 35 years old) and developed resistance - if your battery terminals get hot this may be a good indication of bad cables.

I also recommend taking the battery into an autoparts store to be tested - voltage at rest doesn't always translate into current for cranking.

Another item is that the bakelite cap on the starter solenoid sometimes gets unscrewed or loose which may cause a click but no crank. Check for loose or missing screws on the starter solenoid.

Otherwise I would replace the slave solenoid first (cheaper) then the starter. Good Luck!

 

[beason]

Re: 99 sea ray won't turn over.

well... i pulled the starter to test it, and it looks like that is the problem. I can move the throw out gear, but it wont spin, even with the help of a screwdriver.

I was trying to reconnect the cables to test it, and the stupid lug broke off. So it looks like ill be replacing it anyway...

you can see in the pics, its pretty gnarly in there.

and the damage.

I also changed the plugs while i was in there, and checked the oil. Its a nice and gold.

 

[lmorefield41]

Re: 99 sea ray won't turn over.

Hey, I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but most likely that engine is seized. I know this from experience. Check this thread out: http://forums.iboats.com/showthread.php?t=519268 I did all of the troubleshooting steps the guys had advised me to do and after I couldn't manually turn the engine with all of the spark plugs out, I took the outdrive off, fabricated a t-handle to a drive shaft yoke and still couldn't turn the engine. I started taking the engine apart and it was definitely seized. I ended up rebuilding the entire thing and it's running like a champ now. Good luck with this.

 

[beason]

Re: 99 sea ray won't turn over.

Hey, I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but most likely that engine is seized. I know this from experience. Check this thread out: http://forums.iboats.com/showthread.php?t=519268 I did all of the troubleshooting steps the guys had advised me to do and after I couldn't manually turn the engine with all of the spark plugs out, I took the outdrive off, fabricated a t-handle to a drive shaft yoke and still couldn't turn the engine. I started taking the engine apart and it was definitely seized. I ended up rebuilding the entire thing and it's running like a champ now. Good luck with this.

Your situation is a little different then mine. My cylinders are clear, the oils is pretty gold, and the engine ran perfect 4 months ago. Plus its only 13 yrs old. I know that doesnt mean much, but yours was sitting for 2 years in the weather.

thanks for the insight, but i hope your wrong .

 

[mark1905]

Re: 99 sea ray won't turn over.

I would venture to say that was your problem.. and that in any case it's new starter motor time! Much cheaper than a new engine..

DB Electrical has good units for under $70.. http://www.dbelectrical.com/c-2777-30-liter.aspx

 

[beason]

Re: 99 sea ray won't turn over.

I would venture to say that was your problem.. and that in any case it's new starter motor time! Much cheaper than a new engine..

DB Electrical has good units for under $70.. http://www.dbelectrical.com/c-2777-30-liter.aspx

ive read a few reviews on that one, and it is about 50/50 good and bad. the bad ones have it failing very quickly.

West marine claims to price match, and im hoping they will match the price.

 

[mark1905]

Re: 99 sea ray won't turn over.

Eek.. good luck on West Marine matching that. They're going to tell you that it's not the exact same model, so no dice.

I've used nothing but DB Electrical starters for 8 years now with pretty much zero problems UNLESS they get submerged.. but that goes for about any starter. Come to think of it.. that's literally that only time that I've ever had to replace them. If you're looking at a $60 motor that lasts 2-3 years or a $200 motor that lasts 3-4.. you do the math. DB also has very good warranty. Any problems within a year and they'll ship you out a new model without a problem..