All about resins (Cliff Notes added to top of page 1)

[chrishayes]

Re: All about resins (Cliff Notes added to top of page 1)

Chris, your rash might have something to do with the catalyst, or the epoxy reacting. I don't think it would be the acetone?

The only time I've ever had a problem with acetone on my skin was when it got into a cut. Ouch. Otherwise, years of use, no problems.

Good well soon.

No no no, I didnt mean to come across as saying it was the acetone that caused the rash, I meant to say that due to having the epoxy on my skin, I chose acetone to wash it. Doing this, I learned, actually strips the oils from the skin(as bronc pointed out) which acts as a natural barrier and allowing the epoxy to be absorbed directly into my system. All I know is that there is little to no safety warnings for epoxy either on uscomposites(where I purchased the resin) website or on the containers themselves. I also have not read much of any precaution given in the forums for epoxy either. It is touted as the safer alternative to poly. I just hope this terrible incident for me helps someone in the future to be educated prior to having to go through this nightmare for themselves.

I wont lie, this has shaken me up:redface I am afraid to go back in the garage. No joke. I appologize for any advice that I have given to people about epoxy being less dangerous. I shouldve gathered info before opening my big mouth. Truly, I am sorry.

I dont mean to single out Jsercsa but in his thread he has pictures of himself wearing only shorts(no shirt, gloves, nothing) just bathed in epoxy and actually laughed about it. His thread was the one that I used as inspiration for my project so of course seeing him do that kinda put it in my head that this was ok to be around. John, if you read this I highly reccomend going back and putting a warning in that post just to be on the safe side. You know me, I am not the type to try to make someone look bad so please dont take offence. If it could happen to me, it could and will happen to anyone.

 

[drewpster]

Re: All about resins (Cliff Notes added to top of page 1)

Don?t misinterpret my meaning here safer is always better.
One's reactivity to the chemicals we are using depends on the person as much as the chemical. I am very lucky in that I work in an air conditioned shop. I have had the doors closed, taking advantage of the a/c this summer. The fumes from the resin can get quite thick. I vent the shop when I am working with resin or acetone. I use a box fan in one of the windows to draw air out of the work area. It works very well.
Anytime I work with chemicals I use gloves. Most of the time I use the thin vinyl gloves. They give me a better "feel" than the rubber ones. I have never felt whoozie or had so much as a headache as long as I vent the shop. It can get very difficult when working directly over large parts so I limit the amount of time I have to hang over them. I also have a fan on a stand I use to keep the air moving.
In order to keep the dust contained as much as possible I keep the doors closed when I am grinding. I cover everything with plastic. I wear all the safety gear I can and take frequent breaks. The dust can get very thick and if I can see it in the air I ventilate to clear it out. I use a respirator with particulate filters that I change often.

 

[AltaMira]

Re: All about resins (Cliff Notes added to top of page 1)

Hey folks, I am new to this forum, but from reading it I would think someone might be able to help me. I have a 16' fiberglass molded lapstrake hull that I want to reinfornce from the inside with glass. The bilge is obviously not smooth due to the lap strake. My plan is to make it smooth by filling in the lap strake with PB or something, then apply the fiberglass to a smooth surface instead of having to bend the glass over all of the strakes. Any suggestions? Any recipes for polyester PB? I would appreciate any help.

 

[chrishayes]

Re: All about resins (Cliff Notes added to top of page 1)

Hey folks, I am new to this forum, but from reading it I would think someone might be able to help me. I have a 16' fiberglass molded lapstrake hull that I want to reinfornce from the inside with glass. The bilge is obviously not smooth due to the lap strake. My plan is to make it smooth by filling in the lap strake with PB or something, then apply the fiberglass to a smooth surface instead of having to bend the glass over all of the strakes. Any suggestions? Any recipes for polyester PB? I would appreciate any help.

I think we have probably strayed from the original posters questions far enough. If you start your own thread we would be happy to help you there. Thanks.

 

[jonesg]

Re: All about resins (Cliff Notes added to top of page 1)

I think we have probably strayed from the original posters questions far enough. If you start your own thread we would be happy to help you there. Thanks.

Interesting thread, a coupla thoughts,

epoxy is FAR more toxic than poly. Once you are sensitized you're done for life with epoxy. Forget epoxy paints too, can't even sand cured epoxy.
Its maxed out in the liver and the body will not tolerate further exposure.

I don't use any protective measures for poly except gloves and a fan if working down in the bilge.

Acetone can penetrate the skin but usually evaporates faster than it soaks in, thats why it feels like its freezing, it is due to the fast evaporation.

Epoxy is more "plastic" or malleable , thats where the strength comes from but I still don't mess with it.

I can't imagine what would happen if dma and cobalt were widely available to the general public doing glass work, its easy to get things mixed up and if done in the wrong order they will go boom.

I try not to start a glass job I can't finish in one go.

 

[redfury]

Re: All about resins (Cliff Notes added to top of page 1)

Every bit of epoxy I've ever worked with has required me to wear a cartridge mask...the fumes were something else! I won't work with epoxy without a cartridge unless I'm using an epoxy gun to glue something small.

I work with polyurethane everyday, and while I should wear my mask more than I do, I'm usually out of the house before the fumes get bad because most of my jobs are small, and I'm in and out with my coating in 15 minutes...if it's longer than that and there isn't a good flow of fresh air, I wear my mask. Been doing it for 13 years now. Can't say the exposure hasn't done any harm at all, far from it...but I'm not a slobbering idiot and my speech isn't slurred.

I wear the mask when doing polyester work in the boat every time though...it's the same thing as crawling into a hole in the ground...the fumes collect there.

 

[bigbad 4cyl x2]

Re: All about resins (Cliff Notes added to top of page 1)

i never had to wear a mask doing an epoxy layup

 

[Bronc Rider]

Re: All about resins (Cliff Notes added to top of page 1)

One thing to note with resins that contain styrene. Even with a respirator if ventilation is not adequate you will still absorb the vapors (there?s no fumes) thru your skin. I have worked inside closed areas with supplied breathing air and still got "high" off the vapors. It?s not fun, you end up with a huge headache. You can tell when you had too much exposure, you literally feel like you have ants crawling around your testicles. It sounds funny but, I?m very serious that?s what it feels like. We do things different now. If we have to work in closed conditions we alternate guys/crews to do the work inside. Keep in mind before osha people to use to grind frp with no mask at all. They would go inside tanks without a respirator and lay up.
On a different note, if you can afford the half face respirator buy it, its the best. Sadly most frp shops just use a paper mask.

 

[chrishayes]

Re: All about resins (Cliff Notes added to top of page 1)

yeah, osha is a double edged sword. In my job (construction managment) osha is a constant threat, not a help. I hate to say it but when my guys are doing something in a building where paint is being sprayed above them so bad that there is just a cloud in the air that never goes away, if they ask for a mask I have to send them to the doctors to get a fit test. So, rarely do any of them go through with it but rather just deal with it and breathe the crap. Unfortunately osha has become an for profit buisness not the governing body that should be there to keep you safe. Its a shame really.

 

[allpoints360]

Re: All about resins (Cliff Notes added to top of page 1)

You can grind IN the wax on a waxed surface if you don't remove it first (best to do with a "wax remover").

What would you use to remove wax from a final gelcoat application if wax is added? Is there a brand of "wax remover" that is recommended?

 

[jonesg]

Re: All about resins (Cliff Notes added to top of page 1)

i never had to wear a mask doing an epoxy layup

Its ok if you don't do a lot of it but if it catches up with you a mask will not help, you'll be joining us in the smelly brush club.

 

[redfury]

Re: All about resins (Cliff Notes added to top of page 1)

Its not time related, its cure related, if its hard, then its fine, if its soft, then it better not get wet.

Okay, my lay ups have hardened just fine, but after the fact, I've got a white haze on some areas of the fiberglass that had gotten wet. I was out yesterday grinding the hull for the center stringer ( you bet I was making sure I got to good glass this time....and man does the resin seem to pool up in the keel area...lots to grind! ). I was grinding into my stringer glass a bit to feather it and it all seemed to have bonded well other than the one spot that I had pointed out. That area I cut out and feathered plus ground out the glass a bit more so I get a good bite on it the next time.

The hull of my glastron just doesn't grind to a uniform color. It seems that I'm taking off enough glass to get a good bond, I just worry I'm taking off more glass than I want to, so I think I will be putting down a layer of glass before I do my keel stringer just to make sure I've got that covered. I'd hate to do all this work only to have to mess with it again because I got a little overzealous and didn't cover my ***..ets well enough. I'll post more in my thread later.

 

[chrishayes]

Re: All about resins (Cliff Notes added to top of page 1)

Okay, my lay ups have hardened just fine, but after the fact, I've got a white haze on some areas of the fiberglass that had gotten wet. I was out yesterday grinding the hull for the center stringer ( you bet I was making sure I got to good glass this time....and man does the resin seem to pool up in the keel area...lots to grind! ). I was grinding into my stringer glass a bit to feather it and it all seemed to have bonded well other than the one spot that I had pointed out. That area I cut out and feathered plus ground out the glass a bit more so I get a good bite on it the next time.

The hull of my glastron just doesn't grind to a uniform color. It seems that I'm taking off enough glass to get a good bond, I just worry I'm taking off more glass than I want to, so I think I will be putting down a layer of glass before I do my keel stringer just to make sure I've got that covered. I'd hate to do all this work only to have to mess with it again because I got a little overzealous and didn't cover my ***..ets well enough. I'll post more in my thread later.

good luck bud! hope it works out this time.