Alpha 1 still not engaging reverse!!!

alldodge

alldodge

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Re: Alpha 1 still not engaging reverse!!!

TampaBoater said:
Update. I went and reinstalled the drive, again. Lo and behold, NOTHING!
I begining to think its a lower unit issue more than anything.
Click to expand...

Do you get FWD with the shoe pointing straight FWD?

Edit: that is with the drive off
 
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J

JerryIrons

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Re: Alpha 1 still not engaging reverse!!!

dozerII said:
Anyone else notice all the green gear oil in the bellows!
Click to expand...

You aren't kidding, op you probably want to look into replacing the drive oil seal once this problem is fixed.
 
Bt Doctur

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Re: Alpha 1 still not engaging reverse!!!

we need some pics . Plus your going too fast for us to respond, slow down.
With the drive removed and the control cable connected , is there any movement of the slide in or out? There should be none.
Needs pics of the brass shoe on the drive with full clockwise and full counterclockwise.
You also need to replace the carrier seal in the upper unit, its leaking gear oil
By not being able to engage reverse with the cable slide bottomed out in the housing, it would indicate the splined lower shaft and the shift shoe may be mis-aligned or have too much slop in it from corrosion.
The other is a worn shift spool, and there are some test to prove that.

"3. the rod and shoe were not bent by the mis-fit the first time."

Explain that, because if you forced the halves together and that shoe was not correctly aligned you bent this
IMG_1356.jpg
.it operates the shift spool for shifting
This is in neutral
shiftshoes.jpg
 
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ktbarrentine

ktbarrentine

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Re: Alpha 1 still not engaging reverse!!!

TampaBoater said:
I am sorry, which seal is this exactly (location)?
Click to expand...

Hmmmm...now that you mention it, yes, there is a good pool of oil in the bellows. The drive seal referred to is the one on the yoke shaft that connects the u-joints to the outdrive. The seal there can start leaking drive oil into the bellows if it is worn. If you also get water in the bellows (like when the bellows gets a crack, or a gasket fails), then you get water in the outdrive. Bad ju-ju. Also, if leaking because it is worn out, also need to look at the condition of the yoke shaft where the seal rides to see if it is also worn/grooved. May need a sleeve kit, a new yoke shaft, or in some cases can get by if you set the seal in the drive at a new location (i.e., a few thou further in or out of the seating area).

Should do a pressure test of the drive off of the boat and check for a leak on that seal (as well as the others on the drive).

Best of luck!
 
alldodge

alldodge

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Re: Alpha 1 still not engaging reverse!!!

TampaBoater said:
Yes I can...
Click to expand...

OK, with the drive off you can move the foot straight FWD against the stop and the drive is in FWD. You can move it away from FWD aginist the other stop and it's in REV. With that it is not in the drive.

That is unless you move the shoe straight FWD and it is not against the stop
 
J

JerryIrons

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Re: Alpha 1 still not engaging reverse!!!

TampaBoater said:
I am sorry, which seal is this exactly (location)?
Click to expand...

Like Bt Doctor said, the carrier seal. It has nothing to do with this shifting problem, and if you search here you'll see lots of stuff on how to do it. It sits on the yoke, that the universal joints connect to.

Back to the shifting, more pics would help I think, we like pictures here!

When the drive is attached, the bracket turns the shift shoe, to put it in reverse. It may not be turning the shoe enough to make it in reverse. Can you push the shoe inside the bracket with your finger to make it into reverse? If I remember correctly, reverse is like 10 oclock, neutral is 11, and forward is noon, or straight ahead.
 
T

TampaBoater

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Re: Alpha 1 still not engaging reverse!!!

Bt Doctur said:
we need some pics . Plus your going too fast for us to respond, slow down.
With the drive removed and the control cable connected , is there any movement of the slide in or out? There should be none.
Needs pics of the brass shoe on the drive with full clockwise and full counterclockwise.
You also need to replace the carrier seal in the upper unit, its leaking gear oil
By not being able to engage reverse with the cable slide bottomed out in the housing, it would indicate the splined lower shaft and the shift shoe may be mis-aligned or have too much slop in it from corrosion.
The other is a worn shift spool, and there are some test to prove that.

"3. the rod and shoe were not bent by the mis-fit the first time."

Explain that, because if you forced the halves together and that shoe was not correctly aligned you bent this
IMG_1356.jpg
.it operates the shift spool for shifting
This is in neutral
shiftshoes.jpg
Click to expand...

Ok. Sorry for going to fast :)
Now...i tried like someone above mentioned and tried to help the rod and shoe to engage reverse while the motor was on.
I could get it n fwd but when i pushed it towards the 10 o clockish it would move a bit and then stopped. No reverse. The rod and shoe do not look bent, but appearances can be decieving. As far as play in the slide, there was none when engaged (i checked).
 
Bt Doctur

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Re: Alpha 1 still not engaging reverse!!!

As far as play in the slide, there was none when engaged (i checked).

Just to make sure I understand you, engaged to what? the slide must not have any play
leaving a cell #
 
T

TampaBoater

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Re: Alpha 1 still not engaging reverse!!!

Ok. I really got under there with a light and took this pic. I may have been wrong about the shoe and rod. It knd a looks like it'sitting to far back in the shoe, right?
If this rod is bent how can i fix? Can i try some force to bring it back forward a bit or do i have to replace the whole thing?20140504_103618.jpg
 
Bt Doctur

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Re: Alpha 1 still not engaging reverse!!!

Without splitting the drive and posting pics ,that cant be answered. But answer my question about the slide
 
ktbarrentine

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Re: Alpha 1 still not engaging reverse!!!

TampaBoater said:
Ok. I really got under there with a light and took this pic. I may have been wrong about the shoe and rod. It knd a looks like it'sitting to far back in the shoe, right?
If this rod is bent how can i fix? Can i try some force to bring it back forward a bit or do i have to replace the whole thing?View attachment 230835
Click to expand...

Yep...something definitely wring with that picture. Should be engaged as is shown in BTDoctur's photo. I suspect it got bent from a bad drive install attempt. Wouldn't chance trying to straighten (if it is bent as suspected).... Would love to see what it looks like out of the drive. (you need to pressure test anyways). Looking forward to the pics.

edit: just saw Bt Docturs latest pic... that is what I am suspecting. wow!
Best of luck.
 
J

JerryIrons

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Re: Alpha 1 still not engaging reverse!!!

The first time I took my drive off and reinstalled it, I bent mine as well. :facepalm: That's how I discovered the iboats forums! I was able to straighten things out somewhat with a vise and various tools, but it never really worked quite right, and I always worried about it when I was out on Lake Erie. I ended up replacing both parts with used, OEM shaft and shoe that I bought from a local mercruiser shop with cash. They seemed to fit together more exact compared to the after market parts that were already on my boat, even before I got to it.
 
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Bt Doctur

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Re: Alpha 1 still not engaging reverse!!!

KT, heres what happens if you really hit a big rock
propshaft.jpg
 
T

TampaBoater

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Re: Alpha 1 still not engaging reverse!!!

ok...pics. But first, findings! So i pulled the drive off today afte work. The whole thing. Here's what I found.
The shift rod was not incredibly bent, I was able to straighten up. The shoe was also a bit bent upwards probably from me forcing the rod into the wrong way. I was able to straighten that up too ( as pictured, first pic of shoe is bent slightly up, and second is straight)...now I don't know if i mentioned this before, but, manually, and off the boat, I can turn the shift rod both directions, and it behaves as it should, engaging in fwd gear when at 12, and locking up reverse. Also engages reverse at the 10 o clock mark, and locking up fwd gear. So i gues there is nothing wrong with this part. I still haven't put anything back since I tore up the bell housing gasket in the process of removing drive. Will be buy a kit tomorrow. Ok, now pics...20140506_194835.jpg20140506_195446.jpg20140506_194702.jpg20140506_194710.jpg20140506_194721.jpg
 
achris

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Re: Alpha 1 still not engaging reverse!!!

OK, I know I'm coming in here a bit late, but a few comments...

1. If there was crud in the back of the slide, 2 things of note. One, you can't see it, it's inside the slide, and two, the shift interrupt switch would be activating. So, check the switch lever is not being tripped when the control is in reverse.

2. Nobody seems to have asked a question.... Did you put all the washers (SS and rubber) back on the lower shift shaft before putting the upper housing back on? If you missed one of those, the shoe will not engage the foot properly, and require more movement of the shift cable to fully engage reverse...

3. Have you done a 'slop check' as per the manual and my video on adjusting the shift cable?

Simple check...

Chris....
 
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T

TampaBoater

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Re: Alpha 1 still not engaging reverse!!!

achris said:
OK, I know I'm coming in here a bit late, but a few comments...

1. If there was crud in the back of the slide, 2 things of note. One, you can't see it, it's inside the slide, and two, the shift interrupt switch would be activating. So, check the switch lever is not being tripped when the control is in reverse.

2. Nobody seems to have asked a question.... Did you put all the washers (SS and rubber) back on the lower shift shaft before putting the upper housing back on? If you missed one of those, the shoe will not engage the foot properly, and require more movement of the shift cable to fully engage reverse...

3. Have you done a 'slop check' as per the manual and my video on adjusting the shift cable?

Simple check...

Chris....
Click to expand...

Chris..good points. To what ss and rubber washers are you referring to? Please shed more light on this. I don't recall seing any of those..where would they go? Also, once I put drive back in will follow your vd to cable adjustment. One last question ( and please bear with me, I have never owned an inboard before), the large rubber u-joint ring, when I pulled the drive first time, I only had half of it, so I don't where it came off of, I read you have to use some kind of adhesive to secure in place, I just dont know where to...
 
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achris

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