Am I getting ripped off by mechanic?

[billbar]

Hi All,

I have a 1998 454 Chevy with a Merc Bravo III mated to a Chaparral Sig 27.

This is the 4th season I've owned the boat and live in Minnessota.

The independent mechanic I use stated last year that there was some play in the gimbal bearing and the bellows probably was due for replacement. I purchased an extended swim platform for the boat during the summer so we decided to pull the boat, install the platform, do the gimbal etc. and put her back in.

He replaced the gimbal ring, swivel shaft, all belows and shift cable. Replaced trim senders and adjusted.

Parts list:
1 Shaft 295.90
1 Plug Kit 18.70
Gimbal Ring Assy 886.95
1 transom Seal Kit 269.90
1 Sender Kit 94.95
1 Shift Cable Kit 146.90
Smaller stuff less than $100 total

Total Parts 1758.09

Labor:
Gimbal Ring $75hr $900
Trim Senders $75hr $75
Platform $75 $450

Total Labor $1675.00

Now here is the bad part! When I got in the boat there was a heavy gear oil smell. I looked in the engine compartment and there was a small amount of gear oil that looked like it was spilled near the reserve so I cleaned it up and thought it was ok. We went for a short ride and it seemed fine.

I drove the boat one more time for about an hour with no problems but still the smell. Then last week when I went to pull the boat for the season I notice a nice big oil plume from the rear. Once the boat was pulled I notice gear oil leaking from the prop / prop shaft. Turning the props makes a nasty grinding noise.

My mechanic says "there was probably something already going bad there" and "I never touched the outdrive" and that I will probably need a new outdrive. It seems to me that he should have known there was some kind of problem from the gear oil smell when the boat was returned to my dock. I'm guessing this is going to be $3000 or more to fix.

At this point I am hostile and trying to keep my emotions in check. Is this just boating or should he be confronted?

Any comments / suggestions / advice would be greatly appreciated!

Thanks in advance!!

BB

 

[PINESOL]

Re: Am I getting ripped off by mechanic?

one thing for sure ... dont take it back to him ... take it somewhere else and get there opinion ... document everything , if there is some concern of his repairs to have caused the outdrive problem , approach him with the repair bill and the information you have ... my .02 c
sounds like a comeback to me ... happens all the time . however dont jump to conclusions , he may not have done anything wrong ... it does sound like you have a loss of trust with the original tech . for piece of mind go to someone different ..

 

[mkast]

Re: Am I getting ripped off by mechanic?

Other than the leak, you didn't mention anything wrong with the operation of the boat. The drive was removed and replaced (R&R). I don't see how a prop seal can go bad with a simple R&R, unless the drive was towed behind a vehicle by the prop. I'll look at it like this, prop seal going bad and the "grinding" was a coincidence, would this have happened if he never touched it? Don't know!
Welcome to maintenance.
I can tell you this, more often than not, problems are discovered while preforming other maintenance.

 

[tommays]

Re: Am I getting ripped off by mechanic?

The real issue is was the gear oil tank checked once a boat day


If had a leak and was checked then the tank level would drop and you would have know it was a problem while it was a small ONE



Tommays

 

[ron7000]

Re: Am I getting ripped off by mechanic?

you paid $3500+ for what you said was a bad gimbal bearing, a new bellows, and a newer lower shift cable.
but you have a gimbal ring assembly for $886 and a transmom seal kit for $270.
how do you get a gimbal ring assembly and transom seal kit on the parts list for that kind of repair? the whole transom assembly has to come apart and off the boat for a gimbal bearing, bellows, and lower shift cable replacement on a bravo 3? what's the shaft for at $295.90? You're already getting the shaft from the sounds of it, sucks they're charging you for on top of it all. you might need to kill your mechanic.

 

[Haut Medoc]

Re: Am I getting ripped off by mechanic?

Welcome to iboats.....
What Tom says is true &:
Have you owned the boat four years, what, if any, preventative maintainence has been done previously?.....
Do you trailer or moor it?......
Nine years is not old for a transom assembly for the gimbal ring to wear out or corrode, esp in fresh water......
I'd be hard pressed to say they were bad......
That said, without seeing the old parts, hard to say if it was still servicable......
The bellows & cable were due, & gimbal bearing maybe.....
Again, that would be determined upon inspection....
With regard to the drive, there really should have been no damage with the work described, however the drive should have been drained, & the gear lube checked.......
My gut says you got snookered on the gimbal ring, but B3's were known to have corrosion problems......
Since it sounds like you lost faith in this mech, I'd look for another......
The drive will need to be disassembled & checked, but it sounds like internal damage.......
Rebuilds ain't cheap, I'd be looking for a brand new one on ebay.....​

 

[DHPMARINE]

Re: Am I getting ripped off by mechanic?

The upper swivel shaft in the gimbal ring goes for $290,so it was replaced also? At any rate,if I only remove and re-install an outdrive I take NO responsibilty for the internal parts of the drive.It's a sealed unit,and the owners's the one who maintains it.Or asks me to.

DHP

 

[Bondo]

Re: Am I getting ripped off by mechanic?

Ayuh,......... I'm with DHP,.....

The work you had done Isn't at all connected to the Issue you have Now.......

 

[TilliamWe]

Re: Am I getting ripped off by mechanic?

+1 to Bondo and DHP. He didn't cause your current problem. But it would have been nice if he had checked for it. But you didn't pay him for that.
You said this:
"play in the gimbal bearing", but what the mechanic said was "play in the gimbal ring" I am sure. He still took you on that, cause if there was "just some play" it could have been tightened. The guy is not a honest as he could be. But if you ruined your drive due to an oil leak, that's gonna be all you.

 

[Don S]

Re: Am I getting ripped off by mechanic?

I've seen gimbal rings go bad from loose ubolts in a lot less that 9 years. I have also had to replace them.
To do the job properly, you have to remove the gimbal housing from the boat. That includes pulling the engine. How easy is that on a Chaparral Sig 27 boat. Any of you know. I do know that Chaparral has a habit of making engine remove either very difficult or impossible.
Working on boats takes time. Sometimes more than expected because EVERY BOAT IS DIFFERENT.

He has a total of 22.5 hours of labor. Anyone here want to try that job in a little less than 3 working days?
Most here spend all winter to many weekends doing the same job.

Don't forget that being a marine mechanic also means you have a seasonal job. So, I assume you want the best mechanics out there, but they only get to work part of the year in most areas of the country.

Even the best are not up to what can happen at a Ford, Chevy automotive dealership.

 

[TilliamWe]

Re: Am I getting ripped off by mechanic?

Oh Don, I think everyone knows how hard the actual replacement of the gimbal ring is. It's just my question, "was it really necessary?"
Still don't see how he would have damaged the drive.
billbar, you got any pictures of the oil leaking from the propshaft seal? When Bravo 3s corrode, the thing that corrodes the worst is the rear bearing carrier. And when it corrodes too far, the oil seal (at the propshaft) at the end of that carrier will leak. I'll bet a nickel that is what your problem really is.

 

[sickwilly]

Re: Am I getting ripped off by mechanic?

Even the best are not up to what can happen at a Ford, Chevy automotive dealership.

Don,

It's a tangent, but your last comment really got my interest. Can you please elaborate?

 

[Don S]

Re: Am I getting ripped off by mechanic?

I think everyone knows how hard the actual replacement of the gimbal ring is. It's just my question, "was it really necessary?"

My point is that the mechanic that looked at it determined it was bad and the owner said ok, fix it. Now unless you can see the actual gimbal ring and upper shaft, and see if it was good or bad, you have NO way of knowing. But for everyone to just assume the mechanic is wrong is also WRONG.
The guy is complaining because it cost a lot of money to fix.
Surprise, surprise, it costs money to have boats fixed. Especially the run-em-till-they-break kind of boats.
Those ubolts are supposed to be retorqued at specific intervals. They are also in plain view. Were they retorqued when requiered ???????
The thing was worn out, or they wouldn't have replaced it. And hopefully the owner was contacted and authorized the repair. If he did, they he should have looked at what was wrong and at least ask some questions. Did he?
We only see half the story here. When we hear from the other side, then we can make an informed decision on what happened. But we are stuck with a one sided story with no details and the details that are there don't make any sense.

 

[JustJason]

Re: Am I getting ripped off by mechanic?

2 cookies to don

 

[Shaun78]

Re: Am I getting ripped off by mechanic?

the bolts that need to be retourqed. Are they the 2 nuts on the top of the gimbal ring? What are they supplosed to be tourqed too?

 

[45Auto]

Re: Am I getting ripped off by mechanic?

Those 2 bolts on top of the gimbal ring clamp it to the square bottom of the gimbal shaft. The stock bolts are supposed to be torqued to 53 lb/ft. I had to replace the gimbal ring on a 2003 Bravo 3 with 82 hours on it I just bought a couple of months ago because these bolts were never tightened. I think Merc says check them every 50 hours. But a Bravo 3 has a lot of weight hanging behind this little steel pivot shaft and tends to "wallow" out the aluminum gimbal ring fairly easily. I've just been leaving my 9/16 socket on the torque wrench and checking them every weekend before I go out. The new ones seem to consistently be about half a flat short of the required torque after running for 6 -8 hours.

This guy rebuilds Bravo gimbal rings for the go-fast guys and sells hardened shafts and u-bolts.

http://www.jrmarine.com/products/gimbal_repair.htm

The price billbar paid is pretty much the going rate around here if the gimbal ring is replaced using the Mercury "plug" kit for the gimbal housing so you don't have to pull the engine. I wouldn't have been surprised at double the 12 hour labor on the gimbal ring if he had pulled the engine.

As Don says, the normal gimbal ring repair wouldn't cause the later problems. If something unusual happened (say dropped the outdrive on the shaft and bent it while removing it) that could do it, but I imagine you would have had to see it happen to have any claim at this point!

 

[TilliamWe]

Re: Am I getting ripped off by mechanic?

Those 2 bolts on top of the gimbal ring clamp it to the square bottom of the gimbal shaft. The stock bolts are supposed to be torqued to 53 lb/ft. I had to replace the gimbal ring on a 2003 Bravo 3 with 82 hours on it I just bought a couple of months ago because these bolts were never tightened. I think Merc says check them every 50 hours.

Yep, that's right. I loosen my ubolt every year, spray WD40 type stuff, and retorque before launch in the spring. 740 hours on a 1997 drive and it's practically perfect, no slop.

Don, poor maintenance does indeed lead to expensive repairs.

 

[eddy pons]

Re: Am I getting ripped off by mechanic?

I read your entire complaint,,br3s have a problem with corrosion the leak on the reverse carrier must be fixed,the tec who did the repair had nothing to do with that problem, you will have to take it on the chin,,,I am concerned with the leak in side the boat,if the i/o was leaking gear lube through the u-joint seal that would be leaking oil inside your boat, if that was the reason behind changing gimball bearing shame on him,,the rest of the parts he had to change in order to replace the gimball ring,,,using the access hole kit should have saved you lots of hours in labor$$ but I dont think they did,,,mercury forgets to tell everyone that if you tighten the clamp to tight you will crack the gimball ring I have seen too many people make that mistake,,I worked as a tech. for many years before I changed carrears,,I have changed many in 1 day of work thats 8 hours if left alone with all the parts,,mechanics that can do that are very hard to find!,,The marine repair business is seasonal expect to pay top dollar for any repairs ,,I have a friend who paid $3600.00 to have a coupler changed on the back of his merc,br3,shame on that dealer,the item cost less than 500. bucks,,,,But thats boating,,,the next time you have a repair done make sure you get all the parts back,and ask to see the damage before any repair is done that way it will keep them onest and you happy,,,good luck ,,I would look for a new repair tech,,,

 

[DHPMARINE]

Re: Am I getting ripped off by mechanic?

What's wrong with me? I'm always amazed that people are saying us (we) mechanics are ripping them off.And I know some shops ARE doing this.

Frankly I am too busy to even think about padding a bill.I only work at one speed : one boat after another.There is always another.

Getting back to topic,I think flat rate on the gimbal ring alone is 11 hours.It's just too bad the gearcase went after that much money.But it happens over and over,again.

DHP

 

[billbar]

Re: Am I getting ripped off by mechanic?

Hi All,

Sorry for the late response.

The mechanic in question has done work for me and freinds in the past. He has been competent (things he fixed for me before and others stay fixed), reliable, accesable(will come directly to the dock) and is independent. He used to work for a local marina and is happy to quote current rates and parts costs from that marina.

I would hate to loose Mike (the mechanic) for many of those reasons. I am relatively new to boating so the numbers for repair are difficult to digest. I know Mike was slow in the summer so some concern.

I have read each post a couple of times and have come to the conclusion that the gimbal assy probably needed done and although on the high side for cost not totally out of proportion for the work. I'm not positive if it was done totally correct without pulling the engine or if some of the parts were too expensive but I think I'll have to move on from here. My mechanic did mention that the maint had been neglected as far as tightening the ubolts on the gimbal ring clamp and when I looked they seemed almost loose with play last year. I had him torque them to spec and decided to wait one more season. There was no apparent problem with the boat at the time of replacement.

As for the lower unit it seems that given all of the circumstances its possible (and probable) that the unit failed and it had nothing to do with the work Mike did. Last season the gear lube alarm went off while under power and after topping off Mike thought it may have been a resovoir leak and I topped it off a couple of times (not using alot of lube) since thinking that it may just be normal.

Anyway now I am in the market for a new lower unit. I'm considering having a local marina install it (bluelagoonmarine.com) so prior work can possibly be reviewed by another mechanic. I had good luck with that marina with a smaller boat and they are walking distance from my house.

I see that there are aftermarket units and Br3s around. I'll need to do some research on the exact unit needed.

Thanks so much to everybody who responded to my desperate post. I so appreciate the time and effort put in to each response. This is an amazing forum with concerned and thoughtful members. You should see the responses I get to questions on the ZRXOA board which is the official site for my motorcycle. Not anywhere near the quality of replies as here!!

I'm going to search around the iBoats forums to see if there are any experiences I can share with the group. And if anybody has suggestions on lower units that would be greatly appreciated as well. I'll keep updating the post as I move forward.

Thanks!!!!!!!