Amsoil

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~Nickolas~

Petty Officer 3rd Class
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Oct 1, 2008
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91
Hey there,
Ok so how many folks use Amsoil 100:1 mix in there outboards? I'm talking older outboards that call for 50:1 or even 24:1... This stuff is supposed to be so good that it will work great in all outboards no matter what the year. That has got to be some superior film strength. I am going to start using it in all of my outboards at 100:1 and don't have any hesitation using this ratio. If it's been out since 1972 or whatever year it was introduced and it's still selling it must be doing what the claims are. I know some folks won't use it in an older outboard because it sounds too lean. WHen they said 24:1 back in the day they used it, when they said 50:1 we used that, now we have this 100:1 but some just won't do it. Well I think it's great stuff with less pollution and more power, less fouling, less smoke, etc... Sounds like all positive results to me. So who has been using this oil in here and what are your results?


Nick
 

Bob_VT

Moderator & Unofficial iBoats Historian
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26,064
Re: Amsoil

PLEASE research this on iboats use the search function). In all the former threads .......... the conclusion was reached to not risk any one of our outboards and certainly not mine.
 

Silvertip

Supreme Mariner
Joined
Sep 22, 2003
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28,771
Re: Amsoil

Why don't you run Amzoil at 100:1 for the entire season and then report back as to what you experienced.
 

~Nickolas~

Petty Officer 3rd Class
Joined
Oct 1, 2008
Messages
91
Re: Amsoil

I would rather have fresh information and or facts than something old. Things change from time to time and I want updat ed info. So I can assume that both of you who responded won't use Amsoil? If you won't use Amsoil then what is your reason? Are you running an outboard that calls for 50:1 or less and want to stay with old technology or whats the reason? I am curious to hear from you both.

If a company spends millions on their product and or years and proves their point and it has multiple benefits then why wouldn't you use it? I have read stories from folks that have used it for years and tell of how clean their engine is, not having to change plugs, far less smoke and more power from their engine. Running the heck out of it and tearing it down to find very little wear. If there is a product that makes claims that are all positive and will be better for your outboard then why not use it?

I am going to start using it this season in all outboards and see how it goes. I have no doubt that it won't benefit the engine and make it run better, cooler, smoke less, and have superior lubrication. I think this Amsoil Saber product sounds fantastic and can't wait to use it. Probably will try it this weekend and see how it goes. Anyway I want to hear from people that use this oil and how long they have used it and if they had any problems.

Thanks,

Nick


PLEASE research this on iboats use the search function). In all the former threads .......... the conclusion was reached to not risk any one of our outboards and certainly not mine.
 

etracer68

Ensign
Joined
Oct 11, 2009
Messages
906
Re: Amsoil

I have been using Amsoil in my Harley, Drag Racing car (421 SB Chevy,800+ HP) and boat motors for years, and its great stuff. I have been using the HP Injector oil, its for mixing 50:1 or oil injected motors. I also use the Amsoil Marine Gear Lube SAE 75W/80W-90 in the lower unit. I even put Amsoil in my Lawn Tractor, I have yet to try the 100:1 stuff.
 

fishrdan

Admiral
Joined
Jan 25, 2008
Messages
6,989
Re: Amsoil

No experience with that "stuff" in an outboard...

But,,, after blowing a transmission by following their recommendations, I'll never use their products again. I had the old oil analyzed and it went bad from being run far too long, something that company claims you can do with their products. And, when presented with a warranty claim, they wouldn't stand behind their warranty.

So yeah, not a fan here
 

Bob_VT

Moderator & Unofficial iBoats Historian
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26,064
Re: Amsoil

Yes, old threads about it from 2009 and 2010 are outdated.

So, what year is your 2 stroke?
 

~Nickolas~

Petty Officer 3rd Class
Joined
Oct 1, 2008
Messages
91
Re: Amsoil

Well we got 5 boats but three of them are in service. One is a 92 Evinrude 60, 77 Chrysler 135, 80 Mercury 115 that will be getting Amsoil shortly. I have read too many good things about this oil and also read many articles where folks have had excellent results. I seriously doubt the oil mix at 100:1 is bad for your motor. I feel that the problem is the condition of the engine itself and the care it has received. Most break downs are from bad maintenance and improper care and not from the engine parts letting go from the manufacture process. A lot of folks are just "turn key" type people. They don't know really how to work on their engines or how to properly maintain them. They just get in and turn the key and hope it will run. If it runs great then don't mess with it. I have heard many people say exactly that phrase.

I myself am a preventative maintenance type person. I always check my engine over and the condition of componets, clean the carbs, adjust timing if needed, treat the fuel with ethanol products ( just found a local gas station that has ethanol free gas ) change gear case oil every season, impeller change every two years, etc... I want my motor to be in tip top shape and when I turn the key it will start in a few cranks and I'm off. Seen a lot of folks sitting at the dock with engines not starting or getting towed in. Thats not going to happen to me if I can help it. I know some things are out of our control but I also can prevent a lot of issues myself with proper maintenance.

Most outboards are just plain tough to begin with. Special alloys of certain parts, forged rods and needle bearings throughout make them last a very long time but you still need to feed it the right stuff to make it survive. I am going to start out with my Bass boat and Evinrude 60 two stroke. This engine has run flawless since I have owned it for three years. Only a power pack went bad and then I got a bad unit from CDI which I was racking my brain trying to figure out what else had gone bad when it was the new power pack with a defect to begin with. I did a few tests on the pack and called tech service and they said send it back and we will send you one under warrenty. Sure enough put the new unit on and now it runs great again. So my first experience with CDI was not a good one but they took care of me and now its all good.

I'm anxious to start using this oil and I also have bought their synthetic gear case oil which I am going to use from now on. Superior products should get superior results and make this engine run great and last for many years to come. I will admit I am a little anxious about running 100:1 in my outboard but this stuff has been around for awhile now. I haven't read anything negative from outboard use of this oil and of course they have done extensive testing and say good for ALL outboards at this ratio. If the rain lets up and I can get out in the water anytime soon I'll see how she does. I think I will be surprised by the results of this oil and wish I had been using it all along. Will see soon and I'll post how it performs after I use it a month or so... Thanks for all the posts on this topic.

Nick


Yes, old threads about it from 2009 and 2010 are outdated.

So, what year is your 2 stroke?
 

Cannondale

Petty Officer 1st Class
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May 22, 2010
Messages
278
Re: Amsoil

If it runs great then don't mess with it. I have heard many people say exactly that phrase.

I think you've misinterpreted what that phrase means in most cases. What it implies is why change oils, maintenance schedules, etc., when what you're doing produces excellent results? Why increase your spending levels on oil, parts, etc., when current levels of spending works.




Most outboards are just plain tough to begin with. Special alloys of certain parts, forged rods and needle bearings throughout make them last a very long time but you still need to feed it the right stuff to make it survive.
The "good stuff" as you put it is a TC-W3 rated oil, esp. with the age of your outboards. If they're already running perfectly, as you've already stated, what will switching to a more expensive alternative do for you? Make them run more perfect? Just don't see the point, really.....but to each his own.



I'm anxious to start using this oil and I also have bought their synthetic gear case oil which I am going to use from now on. Superior products should get superior results and make this engine run great and last for many years to come. I will admit I am a little anxious about running 100:1 in my outboard but this stuff has been around for awhile now. I haven't read anything negative from outboard use of this oil and of course they have done extensive testing and say good for ALL outboards at this ratio. If the rain lets up and I can get out in the water anytime soon I'll see how she does. I think I will be surprised by the results of this oil and wish I had been using it all along. Will see soon and I'll post how it performs after I use it a month or so....
Be aware, that 100:1 oil from Amsoil is not TC-W3 rated and is more a synthetic blend, not a pure synthetic as they try to portray it. Hence the very small print: "Contains synthetic lubricant and petroleum distillates." So, it's not a complete synthetic, but more like all the other synthetic blended oils out there, just not certified by the NMMA. Then again, all their two-stroke oils are the same, not pure synthetics.

Also remember, no Amsoil 2-stroke product is TC-W3 certified. Guess it's so good they don't have to get it certified. But then using an Amsoil product instantly voids a new motor warranty, something that I don't think would be too smart. Not applicable to you, of course, but a very large issue for someone buying new. Just cannot fathom why Amsoil won't get their oils TC-W3 cert'd. If small producers can afford to get their oil(s) certified, certainly Amsoil can afford to do it, too.

Link to NMMA's current lists of TC-W3 certified oils on the market....notice not one Amsoil product is listed:

http://www.nmma.org/certification/certification/oil/tc-w3.aspx


But you spends yer money, you get what you will. I don't see the point using this stuff simply because the oil lasts exactly one burn cycle inside the engine.....and then new oil is put into the cylinder on the next stroke, then burned again. If you feel your perfect running motors, which have probably been using TC-W3 oil(s) without problems, will somehow run better than perfect, then Amsoil is the right choice for you.

For others that have turn-the-key-and-it-starts motors, almost any other TCW-III rated oil will work as well, esp. with our older motors. And also be aware, a month of use is really no indication of quality.....maybe a few seasons, but a month......naaaa.
 

Silvertip

Supreme Mariner
Joined
Sep 22, 2003
Messages
28,771
Re: Amsoil

One needs to also consider the environment in which an outboard runs -- specifically high humidity hence high moisture injestion throughout the engine. What does oil do in a two stroke? It lubricates moving parts and protects the internals from rust and corrosion. cutting the lubrication AMOUNT in half produces an engine that is not as well protected. Owners of land-based, primarily four stroke vehicles, using Amzoil lubricants that do not require fuel/oil mixes are essentially running "just another synthetic" oil. It is when you begin messing with fuel/oil mix ratios that things can go wrong. As I said earlier, if you really feel this is the greatest thing since sliced bread, go for it and post back what you discovered. But ask yourself repeatedly, "why is it they won't/can't certify this as TCW-III compliant"? And if your engine is under warranty "Will the manufacturer cover an oil related failure, or will Amzoil"? I'm not willing to take the chance on 1) screwing up a perfectly good motor, 2) not having the manufacturer cover a repair, and 3) not having Amzoil pick up the tab. I will relate just one story about my experience with the first full synthetic (who shall remain nameless). Snowmobile - one half season, looses all crankshaft bearings. Engine ran like a scalded dog however up to then. Pulled crank, delivered to shop -- the shop dude said "another full synthetic failure huh?". A short discussion ensued upon which he pulled a crank out from under the counter and said, one season of storage on this engine. You could hardly distinguish that this chunk of iron was even a crankshaft. Lesson learned -- not enough lub -- not enough protection.
 

~Nickolas~

Petty Officer 3rd Class
Joined
Oct 1, 2008
Messages
91
Re: Amsoil

I think you've misinterpreted what that phrase means in most cases. What it implies is why change oils, maintenance schedules, etc., when what you're doing produces excellent results? Why increase your spending levels on oil, parts, etc., when current levels of spending works.


Why not try something different? Why use old technology when there is newer chemicals that outperform that and are far superior to the older oils you are still using?
And I am not spending a penny more on this oil if you calculate the amount of oil it takes at 50:1 with your older regular oil and then the amount it takes with Amsoil at 100:1 and then you compare the cost between the two you will see it really isn't any more expensive at all.




The "good stuff" as you put it is a TC-W3 rated oil, esp. with the age of your outboards. If they're already running perfectly, as you've already stated, what will switching to a more expensive alternative do for you? Make them run more perfect? Just don't see the point, really.....but to each his own.


If you take the amount of oil that regular 50:1 calls for in ounces per gallon and compare that to Amsoil 100:1 ratio it pretty much costs the same amount. I wouldn't say the "Good stuff" is TC-W3 but more so of the minimum rated oil to use with your outboard engine to make it run properly. Why wouldn't anyone want to use an oil that is far superior to an oil that just meets the certification? I don't want borderline oil I want superior oils that will exceed what was recommended a long time ago. And not to say more perfect but more efficient would be better. Less oil less pollution, non fouling of plugs, cooler running engine, less smoke, better lubricity, less wear. After all lubricity or film strength is what it needs to avoid heat and wear of critical componets and that will extend the life of your outboard engine.



Be aware, that 100:1 oil from Amsoil is not TC-W3 rated and is more a synthetic blend, not a pure synthetic as they try to portray it. Hence the very small print: "Contains synthetic lubricant and petroleum distillates." So, it's not a complete synthetic, but more like all the other synthetic blended oils out there, just not certified by the NMMA. Then again, all their two-stroke oils are the same, not pure synthetics.

Also remember, no Amsoil 2-stroke product is TC-W3 certified. Guess it's so good they don't have to get it certified. But then using an Amsoil product instantly voids a new motor warranty, something that I don't think would be too smart. Not applicable to you, of course, but a very large issue for someone buying new. Just cannot fathom why Amsoil won't get their oils TC-W3 cert'd. If small producers can afford to get their oil(s) certified, certainly Amsoil can afford to do it, too.


According to the Amsoil website using their oil does NOT void a new warranty.

"Using AMSOIL synthetic motor oil has no affect on vehicle warranties. A federal law called the Magnuson-Moss Act (1975) prevents original equipment manufacturers from putting conditions on vehicle warranties attached to any product or service identified by brand, trade or corporate name, unless the manufacturer provides that product or service free of charge. This means consumers have the freedom to use aftermarket products of their choice without fear of losing the original limited or implied vehicle warranty. For additional information, contact AMSOIL Technical Department (715) 399-TECH (8324)."



Link to NMMA's current lists of TC-W3 certified oils on the market....notice not one Amsoil product is listed:

http://www.nmma.org/certification/certification/oil/tc-w3.aspx


Amsoil far exceeds TC-W3 oil so it isn't in the same category




But you spends yer money, you get what you will. I don't see the point using this stuff simply because the oil lasts exactly one burn cycle inside the engine.....and then new oil is put into the cylinder on the next stroke, then burned again. If you feel your perfect running motors, which have probably been using TC-W3 oil(s) without problems, will somehow run better than perfect, then Amsoil is the right choice for you.

It may last one burn cycle in the motor but that oil is still in the motor doing it's job regardless. Take regular motor oil and run it for a season and see how the engine performs and looks inside after hours of use. Have it tested for wear and such. I bet carbon build up and gunk and more wear and who knows what all will happen to that engine. It don't matter about the one cycle because with that one cycle it still has to do certain tasks or your engine won't run period.


For others that have turn-the-key-and-it-starts motors, almost any other TCW-III rated oil will work as well, esp. with our older motors. And also be aware, a month of use is really no indication of quality.....maybe a few seasons, but a month......naaaa.



I said a month just to see how it runs. I know you need more time but I will certainly see a difference in several outings on the water. For example I installed Boyesen power reeds to this Evinrude 60 and it made a very noticeable difference in many aspects in the way the engine operates. That was an instant gain in performance and for the better in many ways. I am glad I bought these and installed them as there is no comparison between stock reeds and Boyesen. Hands down Boyesen outperforms stock reeds on all levels in my experience.
 

~Nickolas~

Petty Officer 3rd Class
Joined
Oct 1, 2008
Messages
91
Re: Amsoil

cutting the lubrication AMOUNT in half produces an engine that is not as well protected



Your not cutting the lubrication amount in half really if you think about it. You may be using half the amount of oil but it's not the oil itself that is doing the job but what is IN the oil that protects your engine. The additives or chemicals or whatever you want to call them are what protect your engines vital parts. The oil itself is what carries these particles throughout the engine to protect it from wear and tear. So you can use half the amount of oil because they use more additives and or better more powerful additives in their mixture and it only requires this much oil to get the job done at 100:1 ratio.
 

Cannondale

Petty Officer 1st Class
Joined
May 22, 2010
Messages
278
Re: Amsoil

Your not cutting the lubrication amount in half really if you think about it. You may be using half the amount of oil but it's not the oil itself that is doing the job but what is IN the oil that protects your engine. The additives or chemicals or whatever you want to call them are what protect your engines vital parts. The oil itself is what carries these particles throughout the engine to protect it from wear and tear. So you can use half the amount of oil because they use more additives and or better more powerful additives in their mixture and it only requires this much oil to get the job done at 100:1 ratio.


Sorry, but the oil is precisely the component that is directly responsible for lubrication within your engine....its cylinders, rings, bearings, etc. Those additives and chemicals you tout are there, but while some are anti-wear agents like phosphorous, magnesium, moly, etc., a lot are detergents and other dispersants, prevent varnish creation, reduce ash creation and reduce carbon deposits, prevent ring sticking, and the like.

That oil mixed in the gas is just what lubricates the motor. Everything else in the oil is to control other facets of 2-stroke motor combustion.....something quite different than 4-stroke/conventional motors. But in all motors, oil is the lubrication medium, everything else within the oil is to enhance other factors which that particular oil will face in use. Reducing the amount of oil the bearings see with every stroke of the engine seems to me a losing battle.

And again, if the oils are so damned good, why aren't they TC-W3 certified? Of course, when you certify an oil through the NMMA, photographs are taken, notes made.....maybe Amsoil doesn't want that sort of unimpeachable evidence available and would rather depend on pure marketing?


And a final question....if the actual oil is so unimportant, why bother with any synthetic oil, including Amsoil? Any dino-based oil that is heavy in additives should be as good.
 

JB

Honorary Moderator Emeritus
Joined
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Messages
45,907
Re: Amsoil

Nick, you sound like someone intoxicated by hype with a nice new distributorship trying to slyly spam us.

The same hype has been regularly thrown at us for at least the last ten years. You have nothing new to say.

Quit hyping us and try it out.
 

Cannondale

Petty Officer 1st Class
Joined
May 22, 2010
Messages
278
Re: Amsoil

Nick, you sound like someone intoxicated by hype with a nice new distributorship trying to slyly spam us.


Sort of what I was thinking.....an overly hyped post about how good such-and-such is, a selling/marketing post disguised as informative or wanting a question answered.

Have seen the same spam type junk on other boards......"I just got an internship with XXX Company. They make such great products! You oughta check them out!" to only find out later it's an owner/seller/marketer for the company. But some who try to sell are completely shameless sometimes....unfortunately.
 

Don S

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Messages
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Re: Amsoil

I would rather have fresh information and or facts than something old.

Just my opinion, but it doesn't sound to me like you want facts or information.
Facts.... Ha, you sure aren't going to get that on a forum, opinions yes, facts no. Facts as read in product advertisements yes, but no real facts. We seem to be missing the engineers from Amsoil that actually have the facts and can answer and explain their product.
As for "Fresh information"? aka fresh opinions maybe, but they are the same as the old, and that makes it just another oil thread.

Sounds to me that what you really want is everybody to slap you on the back and say "What a great idea, and what a wonderful product" , but you aren't getting it, so now you are trying to change everyone else's opinion of the product. You sound more like a salesman promoting his product than listening to others opinions and advise.
 

fishrdan

Admiral
Joined
Jan 25, 2008
Messages
6,989
Re: Amsoil

Your not cutting the lubrication amount in half really if you think about it. You may be using half the amount of oil but it's not the oil itself that is doing the job but what is IN the oil that protects your engine. The additives or chemicals or whatever you want to call them are what protect your engines vital parts. The oil itself is what carries these particles throughout the engine to protect it from wear and tear. So you can use half the amount of oil because they use more additives and or better more powerful additives in their mixture and it only requires this much oil to get the job done at 100:1 ratio.

WOW!!! :confused::facepalm:

As for Company X's additives, being better, stronger, genetically altered in a super secret lab buried in the heart of Area 51... Hog Wash! I've had a couple oils samples analyzed, and Company X's additive package is very close to what is in other oils to begin with, maybe a bit more of this, a little less of that and a dash of unobtanium to spice up the mix, but it's not far superior because the dump 2x more and 2x better additives into the oil. Is their base stock oil better, maybe, but the additives are nothing special.

Using their products according to the equipment manufacturer's specification is not going to cause problems. BUT, stray away from the manufacturer's recommendation could cause problems. In my case they said their stuff could run double the maintenance schedule of the OEM fluid... The transmission blew before it was at Company X's recommended drain interval,,, failed roller bearings. Now, If I had stuck to the manufacturer's maintenance schedule, this most likely would have not happened.

Go ahead and experiment with it if you like. I hope you don't get the same results I did.....
 

1979checkmate

Petty Officer 1st Class
Joined
Jan 15, 2011
Messages
261
Re: Amsoil

I said a month just to see how it runs. I know you need more time but I will certainly see a difference in several outings on the water. For example I installed Boyesen power reeds to this Evinrude 60 and it made a very noticeable difference in many aspects in the way the engine operates. That was an instant gain in performance and for the better in many ways. I am glad I bought these and installed them as there is no comparison between stock reeds and Boyesen. Hands down Boyesen outperforms stock reeds on all levels in my experience.

I put a turbo on my car so obviously a new interior will make the motor run better too? You are comparing oil to reeds.. im not getting the connection here??
 

Bob_VT

Moderator & Unofficial iBoats Historian
Staff member
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Messages
26,064
Re: Amsoil

Before you do your oil experiments..... on your "good" running motors....... I would do a good dose of de-carb to all of them. ;)

Boyesen reeds are nice but the gain is not worth the investment unless you are replacing bad reeds. They will not create huge gains and if you engine rev's higher then you are stressing it.....then you need a prop to get the right performance.

I said a month just to see how it runs. I know you need more time but I will certainly see a difference in several outings on the water. For example I installed Boyesen power reeds to this Evinrude 60 and it made a very noticeable difference in many aspects in the way the engine operates. That was an instant gain in performance and for the better in many ways. I am glad I bought these and installed them as there is no comparison between stock reeds and Boyesen. Hands down Boyesen outperforms stock reeds on all levels in my experience.

Reeds for a 1992 60 HP evinrude? Do you have a listing?? :confused: There does not appear to be a listing for your motor....... for any of the boyeson reeds? Are you sure they were boyeson??
 

pecheux

Lieutenant Junior Grade
Joined
Jun 9, 2006
Messages
1,200
Re: Amsoil

Based on the fact that I owned a 1960 McCulloch 9 hp and back then I had a choice of using either the McCulloch 50:1 type oil (blue) or their 100:1 type oil (red) at the respective ratio and it did not matter which one I would use to cover the dealer's OB's waranty ... It explains why Amsoil Saber 100:1 type oil was no surprise to me when I read about it 5 years ago. I have been using Amsoil Saber ever since in order to extend the ban of 2 strokes OB's on some semi-private lakes and results have been convincing. There is no longer fuel stains flotting around my boats compared to when I was using petrol type oil. I own 3 OB's Force 15hp Johnson 9.9hp Evinrude 6hp. My OB's run at 2 speeds, Idle for trolling and wot to get to my fishing spots some of which are 8 miles away from the boat ramp which justify 85:1 to 90:1 mix ratio for my peace of mind. I beleve several things are getting better ex: I owned a few V8 cars, 1954 and a 1964 Ford (as example) and they were both mecanicaly fragile compared to the 1990 Ford tempo 4 cyl awd that I ran until it hit the 200,000 miles without any mecanical repairs and it was still running good when I traded it. I obviously like to try new things ... It's in my nature, I worked as a computer programmer from 1962 up to 2000 ... I had to like new things. LOL Besides I beleve Amsoil is no longer the only company selling this 100:1 type oil, but I forgot the name of the other brand. (from out west Canada) but only Amsoil is available where I live. Would I recommend others to use this oil ?? Definitly NO, because when something goes wrong with an engine running on this type oil .... the oil mix is automaticaly responsible since 50:1 mix and type oils are Mfg recommendation. Now back in the 50"s and 60"s when OB's were on 24:1 and 40:1 mix formula there were plenty of motors that seized up for different reasons ... but I cannot recall what was blamed ... LOL I dont care if the name is Amsoil or Penzoil or RedLine I just like the result on my OB's. Do I think other non synthetic brand oils can do the job just as good = YES but just like Pallmal adds said ... I would rather fight than switch. LOL Cheers.
 
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