Another sad news for UAW workers

[Haut Medoc]

Re: Another sad news for UAW workers


Bondo, commercial flooring is mainly what I do, although I am a licensed general contractor....
I do think that one of the benefits of the union was that if one shop got slow I could go to another shop & work....
I always stayed busy, because the boss would keep the best guys when things got slim,(due to the cyclical nature of the construction trade)....
Anyway, when the boss moved his son in law into a position above me,I left....
Working as a journeyman, I feel that I benefitted from working with a large, new pool of skilled people....
I don't think union tradesman are smarter, but I do believe thet the opportunity to work with alot of various people will make you a more skilled crafttsman.....
There will always be 'dead wood' in every trade, it's just the nature of the beast.....
To answer your second question, no....As a union contactor, I could only use union personnel....
I was able to hire anyone I wanted, but they had to join the union......
Basically, I could not compete with the larger contractors, who had both bigger bankrolls & the business agent in their back pockets....:'(
When I would call the hall, I would invariably get the aforementioned 'dead wood' & had to use them or miss my deadlines.....
Oh, prevailing wage & union wage are the same thing....
For union workers, I had to pay wages & bennies...
On prevailing wage, I had to pay wages & the monetary equivelant of bennies......
I never had to pay dues fees for either category......JK

 

[POINTER94]

Re: Another sad news for UAW workers

I work for a company with several manufacturing facilities, most aquired by purchase. Some union some not. Union shops have lower production and higher costs and higher occurances of warranty. Period. Exact same products.

Same management.

When you are GM and you start out $2500 behind the competition in what are known as legacy costs you have already lost. Then throw in all the non-value added aspects of what a worker won't have to do under a union contract, and the additional costs of poorly negotiated contracts and its a loser. How do you get to price point? Lower qualtiy on vendor supplied items, warantee denial, reduction in unique parts resulting in multi-branded identical cars, R and D takes a big hit, diversification of core business with more profitable branches of the the structure recieving the most attention.

The problem with unions is that their platforms very infrequently involve how to better the company's position and long term viability. It is all about supporting "dead wood".

 

[Haut Medoc]

Re: Another sad news for UAW workers

I just heard that Chrysler is going to restructure.....
You know what that means......:%

 

[crunch]

Re: Another sad news for UAW workers

Crash test a car?

 

[SpinnerBait_Nut]

Re: Another sad news for UAW workers

I just heard that Chrysler is going to restructure.....
You know what that means......:%

Yea, about 13,000 lost jobs so far.:'(

 

[Bondo]

Re: Another sad news for UAW workers

I just heard that Chrysler is going to restructure.....
You know what that means......:%

Yea, about 13,000 lost jobs so far.:'(

Ayuh,..... And I see it's For Sale too........

1 of the Talking Heads mentioned that it would be an Easy way for the Chinese to move into the US Automarket,.......
In a Big Way,+ Reasonably Cheaply....... To the tune of 1/2 what the Germans Paid for it.........


Haut,.....

Your post above Sounds like you're defending My position in this debate,.......

It's Not the "Dead Wood" in the Unions,......
It's the Unions that Are the "Dead Wood".........

Your explanation of the Wages explains it All,.......
In an Open Shop,.... Everybody makes out Way Better,.........
'Cause there isn't that Guy in the white shoes, who's last name ends in a vowel, standing over there with his Hand Out...........

I don't think union tradesman are smarter, but I do believe thet the opportunity to work with alot of various people will make you a more skilled crafttsman.....

I Know that union tradesman are Alot Less Handy,.....
And I do believe that the opportunity to work with alot of various Craftsmen will make you a more skilled Craftsman.....

A Go-Getter training in an Open Shop can benefit from All the Tradesmen who work with him,.....
Rather than to be Limited to merely a Single Trade.......

 

[Skinnywater]

Re: Another sad news for UAW workers

Probably the worst union of all, the most unneccesary and the one that will never go away is all the public employee unions.

 

[crunch]

Re: Another sad news for UAW workers

A Go-Getter training in an Open Shop can benefit from All the Tradesmen who work with him,.....
Rather than to be Limited to merely a Single Trade.......

Could agree with you more.... I went through a 5 year State mandated program to get my MDI (manufactured dwelling installer) license years ago and learned every trade needed to build a house, from drawing up the plans, the permit process, foundation, framing ... all the way to turning the key and moving in.

Try that in a union shop? If my understanding is correct, you learn one trade and that's it?

 

[rottenray6402]

Re: Another sad news for UAW workers

If you want to see how well unions work come to the peoples republic of NY where the average school teacher in Erie county pulls down around $60,000/year for around 180 days work or the layer upon layer of municipal, county, and state unions for everything from police to garbage people. IMHO cars wouldn't cost more than an average house did several years ago if the unions weren't bankrupting the country. Doesn't anyone get that NOTHING would cost near as much in this country if the union wages weren't inflating everything. We get to pay the highest taxes in the country so some public employee can get a boob job paid for for us through their gold standard insurance. Sorry for the rant....

 

[Haut Medoc]

Re: Another sad news for UAW workers

Go-Getter training in an Open Shop can benefit from All the Tradesmen who work with him,.....
Rather than to be Limited to merely a Single Trade.......

Could agree with you more.... I went through a 5 year State mandated program to get my MDI (manufactured dwelling installer) license years ago and learned every trade needed to build a house, from drawing up the plans, the permit process, foundation, framing ... all the way to turning the key and moving in.

Try that in a union shop? If my understanding is correct, you learn one trade and that's it?
It's called specializing.....
Sure, you can learn a little bit of evrything & even master some things in an open shop.....
But would you want the proctologist operating on your brain anuerism?
Probably not.......

If you want to see how well unions work come to the peoples republic of NY where the average school teacher in Erie county pulls down around $60,000/year for around 180 days work

They are still underpaid for putting up with your snot-nosed kids......
No one seems to take into account the extra hours that go into lesson plans, grading papers & such....
On top of that they have to put up with problem children of parents had no business breeding in the first place......
And the fact that they are constantly sick because the parents would rather send the little germ mongers to school when they are sick, so they don't have to miss work & don't have to pay a baby sitter......
They need the summer off just to recover enough so that they can drag themselves into work the next school year......
Teachers earn their money!........JK

 

[technostingray]

Re: Another sad news for UAW workers

would rather push my chevy than drive an import

ROTFLWTIME
I got a picture of that and how long it would last. When I was taking basic training there were a lot of weekend warriors going thru boot camp at the same time. The saying then was "I would rather have a sister in a *****house than a brother in the National Guard."
Illustrative, but not very true.

 

[Daddy O]

Re: Another sad news for UAW workers

I'm a UAW worker. If you look at the JD powers American cars are just as good in quality as imports if not better. Also look at the recalls for Toyota and Honda. They have more recalls than any other automaker. Right now Toyota has a engine problem dating back to to 90's. Oil slugging and ruining the engine. They have to replace all those engines, or pay for the ones that have already been replaced. IT will cost millions.

The American auto industry contributes more money to the ecomony than all the imports put together. For every union job, 2-3 more jobs are created through suppliers. Plus with the higher wages union employees pay more in taxes, which again goes toward the ecomony. The money the the American automakers make stays in America, not over seas. Where most import money goes. Try and buy an part for a import and your going to pay top dollar, because the part comes for overseas.

Sure the UAW has run it's course, but what they have done for the regular guys is give him higher wages that they can have a decent level of living, safer working conditions, job security, has helped everyone in some way. Most of us are very concerned about quality, because it is our livie hood that takes the hit. The days of the 70's union employee are over for the most part.
I've worked non union for alot of years, and there are the same people in those shops as in a union shop. Some work there butts off, others need a kick in the butt to ge going.

 

[Bondo]

Re: Another sad news for UAW workers

It's called specializing.....
Sure, you can learn a little bit of evrything & even master some things in an open shop.....
But would you want the proctologist operating on your brain anuerism?
Probably not.......

Your Doctor comparison is Pretty Limp.........
Try this 1,......

You're a longhaul Independent Contract Trucker,..... You've just traveled 1800 miles with with what You were told is a Hot Load, they're Waiting for it.....
You pull into the jobsite at about NoonOclock, check in,+ proceed to the materials yard,.... There you see a crew of 8 guys,+ the 20ton crane unloading the truck ahead of you,......That's 4 guys to Hook the pieces on the trailer,+ 4 more to Unhook the choker on the ground,....That's 6 guys More than Needed......But anyways,.... After this other truck is empty,.. You pull up, all Unchained,+ Ready to offload,..... To your Surprize,.. The Crane is breaking down,... As 1 of the crew of 8 walks passed you he says,.."See ya in the Morning"......
WTF....... It's 1m,...... "Ya, Well,.. It's in the Contract, We only unload 2 trucks per Day, you're #3"......
Sooo, You drop the wagon where it sits,+ bobtail to Town, 10 miles away, check in to the Only rent-a-bed in town,+ walk next door to the Only diner to have the 1st bite of the day,....
Next morning you run back to the wagon,+ get hooked up,+ ready,.... it's 6:30am..........
10:am the 9 man Crew shows up, sets up the Crane,+ work finally Begins.... 'course, now their hooking to Individual pieces, instead of the Lifts it was put On as,... But it's coming Off anyways,..... 'Bout noon-time, you see everybody taking off, Lunch,.?,.. Nope, wait, the Crane is breaking down,.. jump out an Yell across the yard, Where ya Going,.??... "Oh, We're Done here"... But there's Still a halfa Trailer Left,..!!... "Ya But, That's Steel, We just unloaded the Pipe".........
Ayuh,..... You Guessed It,...... Unhook from the wagon,+ bounce Back to the Fleabag Inn for Another night......
Next Day, you get Empty,+ bounce over to Kansas City to find a "Backhaul" to get home with.........

Now,.... You've spent 3 days without turning a Single Loaded Mile,.... That means you've Lost about Twice what the Haul Paid in the 1st Place.........

Ayuh,....... I Love Unions,.......
That was My Truck, back in the mid-70s, thru the late 80s............
That Specialization is Real Nice,....... 18 Guys doing the Job of 3..............

Oh,..... You Teacher's Defense Don't cut it with Me, Either..........
My Mom was a Teacher for about 30 Years,+ Both of My Sisters Are Now Teachers.......
Some of the "Work Conditions" you state are somewhat True,.......
But,.......
Any Job has it's draw-backs,...... It's up to the Individual to Choose the Conditions they Wish to Work In,......
That doesn't mean that the Taxpayers should be paying a 12 month salary for a 9 month Job........

 

[treedancer]

Re: Another sad news for UAW workers

Quote Bondo

Ayuh,....... I Love Unions,.......
That was My Truck, back in the mid-70s, thru the late 80s............
That Specialization is Real Nice,....... 18 Guys doing the Job of 3..............


I today’s language Bondo you would make out a detention slip and get paid your hourly rate wouldn’t you.

 

[Haut Medoc]

Re: Another sad news for UAW workers

Oh,..... You Teacher's Defense Don't cut it with Me, Either..........
My Mom was a Teacher for about 30 Years,+ Both of My Sisters Are Now Teachers.......
Some of the "Work Conditions" you state are somewhat True,.......
But,.......
Any Job has it's draw-backs,...... It's up to the Individual to Choose the Conditions they Wish to Work In,......
That doesn't mean that the Taxpayers should be paying a 12 month salary for a 9 month Job........

I agree.....
They should pay them the same money for nine months work & lay them off so they can collect unemployment....
My sister & her husband are both teachers....
I think I've described their workiing conditions very aptly........
Oh, I agree, the teamsters are pretty much 'dead wood......JK

 

[18rabbit]

Re: Another sad news for UAW workers

... Sure, you can learn a little bit of evrything & even master some things in an open shop.....
But would you want the proctologist operating on your brain anuerism?

Equating commercial flooring to brain surgery is, is, is leaving at a loss for words … 8)

 

[Haut Medoc]

Re: Another sad news for UAW workers

Why?
Do you know how to do either one of them proficiently?...

 

[SpinnerBait_Nut]

Re: Another sad news for UAW workers

Quote Bondo

Ayuh,....... I Love Unions,.......
That was My Truck, back in the mid-70s, thru the late 80s............
That Specialization is Real Nice,....... 18 Guys doing the Job of 3..............


I today’s language Bondo you would make out a detention slip and get paid your hourly rate wouldn’t you.

Nope tree, don't work that way if you are an O/O.
BTDT for 22 years and got tired of all that garbage.

 

[treedancer]

Re: Another sad news for UAW workers

Quote SBN

Nope tree, don't work that way if you are an O/O.
BTDT for 22 years and got tired of all that garbage.


Better check into the regulations, If you made the appointed time your entitled to detention, you might not be going back to the customer anytime soon, but the way that it was described that wouldn’t be a great loss.

 

[SpinnerBait_Nut]

Re: Another sad news for UAW workers

Back when I did it tree, you just did the best you could to get by and they could use any excuse to get by. ie: the crane or forklift broke down, etc.
That rule don't/won't fly. Way to many aways around it.