anyone make Bio-Diesel?

[wajajaja02]

Thinking of setting up a still, seems simple enough, except getting the oil,competition is out there.

 

[achris]

Re: anyone make Bio-Diesel?

Thinking of setting up a still, seems simple enough, except getting the oil,competition is out there.

Tell me about it!!! I've been trying for 4 years to get a reliable source...

Chris.......

 

[angus63]

Re: anyone make Bio-Diesel?

Soon
We have the equipment onsite. Just need the time and resources to set it up and kick off. We have an Alternative Power Program that uses wind, solar, and hydrogen fuel cell generators. Our next project is bio fuel. When it gets going I'll try to convey what I learn.

 

[FBPirate95]

Re: anyone make Bio-Diesel?

It would be a fun project, but I don't really think you're going to reap any savings. The amount of energy you'll have to put in to convert it will almost equal the energy you get out of what you produce. People can argue this point all you want, but you work out the thermodynamic calcualtions on it, and its true.

However, if an industry can harness a waste stream and recycle energy through conservation projects you can see sustainable gains. I've been working on a project with the forest product industry now for a couple of years, and we're getting closer to actually constructing a new plant for it.

 

[DJ]

Re: anyone make Bio-Diesel?

Be careful with that stuff. It has ruined many a modern day diesel engine. It has issues.

1. Animal fat derived bio is extremely acidic and it attacks fuel tanks, lines and injectors.

2. It clogs filters very easily.

3. It has a cloud point of 34 degrees F.

The plant derived bio is not much better.

In either case, if it is stored in anything other than a sterile container, it will "bloom" (algea) like some kind of mad scientist project.

There is only one modern diesel out there certified and warranted to burn anything richer than a 5% portion of bio (B5).

If you use it and your engine fails (it will) you will void your warranty.

If you've got an old dirty diesel you do not care about, what the heck, give it a whirl.

 

[skargo]

Re: anyone make Bio-Diesel?

I've run hundreds of gallons of commercial bio, and a good amount of home brew with ZERO issues.

The issues were actually with older diesels(pre-94) and their fuel lines.
If you neglect your fuel system and switch to bio, swap out your fuel filters regularly until there are no issues. I always maintain my equipment, so i had zero issues when I switched on my 1998.5 Cummins.

My engine ran better, quieter, and smells great on the BIO. Are you using mother earth plans for your still or are you buying one?

 

[DJ]

Re: anyone make Bio-Diesel?

I've run hundreds of gallons of commercial bio, and a good amount of home brew with ZERO issues.

The issues were actually with older diesels(pre-94) and their fuel lines.
If you neglect your fuel system and switch to bio, swap out your fuel filters regularly until there are no issues. I always maintain my equipment, so i had zero issues when I switched on my 1998.5 Cummins.

My engine ran better, quieter, and smells great on the BIO. Are you using mother earth plans for your still or are you buying one?

I completely disagree. I do this for a living-assist customers with thousands of diesels.

I do not consider a '98.5' model year engine as "modern". That was was four emission level changes (2012, 2008, 2004, 2000) from where we are today.

The pre '94' issues had to do with regular diesel going from 15000 ppm Sulphur to 1500 ppm Sulphur, known as LSD (low sulphur diesel). We are now at 15 ppm Sulphur known as ULSD (ultra low sulphur diesel). Sulphur is/was a lubricant in diesel fuel. The 15 ppm diesel (ULSD) went into effect in 2008.

Todays diesels are running injection pressures approaching 28,000 psi. The '98.5' engine maybe ran 12,000 psi. Higher injection pressures mean VERY tight tolerances on injectors.

You get acidity along with fuel starvation (clogged filters) and $5,000 worth of injectors just went away. By the time one recognizes fuel starvation via poor performance, it's too late.

The issues with bio are many. If you ABSOLUTELY can control what you are getting/using. You MIGHT get by.

Some of those issues are:

1. Animal vs. plant derivement.

2. Splash vs. blended mixture.

3. Acidity control.

4. Algea control.

5. Cetane rating.

Cetane is the value placed on diesel fuel based on it's ability to burn. Sort of the opposite of octane. The higher the cetane, the cleaner and better it burns.

EVERY engine maker (highway engines) out there today requires a MINIMUM of 45 cetane for proper engine performance and EGR function. The Federal government only regulates cetane to an average of 37. Cetane ratings ARE NOT listed on pumps.

Bio degrades that further. Plus, cetane boosters do not boost the cetane rating of bio, only the dino part of a bio/dino blend.

Run bio at your own risk. When the injectors go away, DO NOT blame the engine maker. The language, in the owners manual, is VERY clear. There are valid reasons for that. Trust me, they would love for you to be able to run it but their testing has proven it has major issues.

 

[angus63]

Re: anyone make Bio-Diesel?

DJ
My application will be for power plant and marine research only so I don't have to consider Highway usage restrictions. I have a virgin CAT commonrail attached to a dyno. I am going to monitor the energy spent creating the fuel (and other costs), determine the btu value, play with pressures and nozzles to optimize, varied load and prolonged runs, etc... to evaluate feasability in small highspeed (1800 rpm) gen sets to be used in conjunction with other alternative power sources (fuel cells, solar, wind turbine, etc...)
We have a house on campus that operates only on alternative power sources year round and scores of diesel powered vessels that may benefit one day.
We even have a solar powered hydrogen generator that we use to supply hydrogen to a vessel powered by a hydrogen fuel cell. Zero cost to operate and only emission is water.
Some very cool stuff to play with and learn.

 

[DJ]

Re: anyone make Bio-Diesel?

angus,

In YOUR situation, I do not disagree. You have a very controlled environment. In those cases, it works. No argument there.

The issue I have is someone telling the "average Joe" he can put this stuff in his modern diesel truck and it works. No it doesn't. I've seen it, know it and know what the issues are.

By far, the BEST thing the average Joe can do to his diesel truck is add cetane boost. Use the boost recommended by the engine maker. DO NOT use the boost that has ANY alcohol in it-READ THE LABEL. Alcohol will kill injectors.

I have NEVER had a customer adding cetane boost that is not completely hooked on it. It improves power-immensly-and gets rid of EGR issues.
For anyone with a DPF (diesel particulate filter) it will cut "regeneration" cycles in half. Seen it, know it.

Now, it's time for the Fed. to wake up and realize they are promoting/authorizing subprime fuel.

Thanks.

 

[skargo]

Re: anyone make Bio-Diesel?

DJ
My application will be for power plant and marine research only so I don't have to consider Highway usage restrictions. I have a virgin CAT commonrail attached to a dyno. I am going to monitor the energy spent creating the fuel (and other costs), determine the btu value, play with pressures and nozzles to optimize, varied load and prolonged runs, etc... to evaluate feasability in small highspeed (1800 rpm) gen sets to be used in conjunction with other alternative power sources (fuel cells, solar, wind turbine, etc...)
We have a house on campus that operates only on alternative power sources year round and scores of diesel powered vessels that may benefit one day.
We even have a solar powered hydrogen generator that we use to supply hydrogen to a vessel powered by a hydrogen fuel cell. Zero cost to operate and only emission is water.
Some very cool stuff to play with and learn.

That sounds awesome, do you have anymore info?

 

[skargo]

Re: anyone make Bio-Diesel?

BTW, just to clear up some misinformation, there is more than one modern diesel engine that is approved for using over B5
In fact, for 2011 Dodge, Ford, and GM all give their trucks diesels the nod for B20.

Of course, I would hope that anyone considering using Bio, whether B5, B20, or 100 would do their due diligence and check with their warranty before trying any of it.

As for commercial Bio, it's great, and has a much higher lubricity than diesel.
Anyone considering it should know how it was processed. I know a guy who sold a ton of "mixed" rather than "cracked" biodiesel, and damage was caused.

 

[DJ]

Re: anyone make Bio-Diesel?

ONLY the Ford Powerstroke (2011) is certified and warranted to run B-20.

 

[Philip_G]

Re: anyone make Bio-Diesel?

I've looked into it very briefly as I have a diesel and a long commute, but in the end I just don't have the time, energy, or most importanly the space.

Maybe look for a local biodisel coop that you can buy from? The one here has an oil collection network in place and you can outright buy fuel or I BELIEVE you can make your own with their shop and equipment, just a thought.

 

[skargo]

Re: anyone make Bio-Diesel?

Some research:

http://www.gm.com/corporate/responsibility/environment/news/2010/b20_biodiesel_020810.jsp

http://www.everytime.cummins.com/every/customer/biodiesel_faq.page

It's been approved by Cummins for use in the Ram for fleet use since 2006.

 

[DJ]

Re: anyone make Bio-Diesel?

GM announced, last week they will allow B-20. They had to.

Cummins/Dodge have announced B-20 capable on FLEET only (read; controlled environments).

That excludes the "average Joe".

My information was flawed, based on two weeks ago.

The POINT IS do not use this stuff unless you know EXACTLY where it is coming from and you can prove its quality. Backyard "stills" do not qualify.

Warrantable fuel issues WILL be tested, BY ALL MAKERS.

 

[Philip_G]

Re: anyone make Bio-Diesel?

I have NEVER had a customer adding cetane boost that is not completely hooked on it. It improves power-immensly-and gets rid of EGR issues.
For anyone with a DPF (diesel particulate filter) it will cut "regeneration" cycles in half. Seen it, know it.

I'm not a big fan, actually. I don't see a measurable difference in MPGs or power.
Have run both powerservice and stanadyne

I did run a bottle of diesel purge through last week and did see about 3mpg more, go figure.

 

[Philip_G]

Re: anyone make Bio-Diesel?

Read the labels. They are both "anti gel and cetane boost". The only antii gel's out there are acohol based.

I am passionate about this and want your diesel to perform..... I can tell you what works and does not. Take that for what it is worth.

Done.

I have run both the white bottle and silver bottle of powerservice, due to the climate here.
My engine requires a cetane of around 30 I believe, and since it's never posted on the pumps it is probably required, however there just isn't any reward for the cost or hassle, and you can't really keep the stuff in the vehicle because of the smell

BTW I do believe the stanadyne is a superior product but it's a bit more expensive and harder to find. I suppose every engine is a bit different on that though.

 

[wajajaja02]

Re: anyone make Bio-Diesel?

MY local mechanic /shop, who has been in business for over 30 years and is trusted by all that I know, is also my mentor on this project, he has been producing bio for about 10 years. sells some, which I have run in my tractor, burned in owd oil burner, and both my diesel beetle and burb. nicely,
he also has the corner on the oil, I made a contact which promises about 1200 gallons a year. so a homemade deluxe still will cost me about 400 to make, and being on a farm, space not a issue. why not.
favorable and criticism wanted , thanks.

 

[angus63]

Re: anyone make Bio-Diesel?

That sounds awesome, do you have anymore info?

We are in our infancy in the bio-fuels field. Presently we're researching and gaining knowledge before lighting the brewing wick . The hydrogen fuel cell program is off and running pretty well. If you have interest or questions in alternative power, I will give it a shot or can direct your inquiry to a better informed member of the program.

Here's some older info on our efforts:

http://app.usmma.edu/projects.htm


Schematic of the house alternative power system

 

[skargo]

Re: anyone make Bio-Diesel?

Thanks angus63, I find that stuff fascinating!