Are magneto ignitions really this tricky?

i386

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Aug 24, 2004
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Does everything under the flywheel have to be absolutely perfect in order for these types of ignitions to work?

I'm on my second old outboard. We won't even talk about the first one.

I have a 69 Ski-Twin that's been sitting for 4 years. I fogged it with Seafoam before storing it and even sprayed a little in each cylinder. Prior to that I had only ran the motor in a barrel. Last weekend I put a new impeller in it, and tested for spark. No spark on either cylinder. I pulled the flywheel and removed the points. I polished them back to nice and shiny using a superfine pink whetstone. The points were brand new 4 years ago and were only used for running the engine in a barrel. Put the flywheel back on finger tight and tested spark on each cylinder with the plugs out. Strong blue spark that jumps a 3/8" gap on each cylinder. Torqued that flywheel, put the plugs back in, dropped in it a trashcan full of water, and it fired right up and purred like a kitten.

Took it to the lake today (on a boat I just finished restoring). Engine is jerking a little while idling out past the no wake buoy. Not enough power to plane the boat. I suspect it's running on one cylinder. Finally the other jug kicks in and we have some power but not quite enough. I make a few more adjustments to get the throttle to open fully and hit it again. Boat planes out and runs although a little rough. I lose power again after a few minutes and limp back to the ramp on one cylinder.

Back home, I check for spark. Sure enough, the top cylinder is dead. So I take a points file (something I normally wouldn't do) and clean up the points for that cylinder. Put flywheel back on finger tight and test spark with plugs out. Good strong blue spark on both. Torque it down, put everything back like it was and run back to the lake for another test.

Same thing again, no power, jerking, running on one cylinder.



Seems like anyone I talk to about this problem says a half-*** filing with a points file is all that's ever needed to get one of these things running right. That or they tell me I probably have a bad condenser. Leaves me with the feeling that these old engines practically fix themselves so I must be doing something wrong.

So that brings me back to my question. Do these old engines require prefect breaker points to operate? My experience is leaning that way.:confused:
 

boobie

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20,826
Re: Are magneto ignitions really this tricky?

Don't file the points much more or you'll wear them out. LOL. What it sounds like is you've got either a bad condenser, bad coil, or a coil wire arching to ground.
 

sugar123

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Oct 12, 2010
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Warm up

Warm up

I have a 1977 johnson 55 hp the motor runs good but it takes a long time to warm up how do i ajust the warm up level it just seems like it not working right if you can help send picture thanks
 

sugar123

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Re: Are magneto ignitions really this tricky?

don't file the points much more or you'll wear them out. Lol. What it sounds like is you've got either a bad condenser, bad coil, or a coil wire arching to ground.
i did not right yhis
 

sugar123

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Oct 12, 2010
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Re: Are magneto ignitions really this tricky?

I did not right this can people use my id
 

bktheking

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Jul 29, 2008
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Re: Are magneto ignitions really this tricky?

Notify a site admin if you are worried.

Breaker points are reliable yes however the condensors need to be in just as good a shape or the points will foul. Another possibilty is a leaking upper seal but you can usually tell.
 

Silvertip

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Sep 22, 2003
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28,771
Re: Are magneto ignitions really this tricky?

The warm up lever is not a "warm up lever" -- it is a "fast idle lever". It has nothing to do with how fast the engine warms up. That's the job of the thermostat.
 

bigrockets

Seaman
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Jul 12, 2010
Messages
63
Re: Are magneto ignitions really this tricky?

Small aircraft engines like my Lycoming 160 still use magneto ignitions. Apparently the people who make airplane engines have always known a lot more about magneto ignitions than the people who make outboard motors. Otherwise it would be raining small airplanes on us every day.
 

samo_ott

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Jun 18, 2006
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5,125
Re: Are magneto ignitions really this tricky?

I love magneto's and points. Sure you gotta set em up but then they'll work for a long time. Minimal maintenance required. Unlike modern coil packs that just pack up whenever they feel like it and cost you $80 to replace!!! Sounds like Microsoft made em!
 

coolguy147

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Re: Are magneto ignitions really this tricky?

don't file the points. they'll get scratched and burn:eek:

use 400-600grit and run the sand paper through them 75-100 times. then you can blow in there to blow the dust then adjust them.
 

samo_ott

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Re: Are magneto ignitions really this tricky?

75-100X? Man, I do it 5-10X.
 

i386

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Aug 24, 2004
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Re: Are magneto ignitions really this tricky?

Like I said, I don't normally file them as I have read time and time again not to do it. I just did it this time as a quick and dirty. The point I was making is most people act as if no special care is required in servicing them. Just file and go they say and the look at me like I have 5 eyes when I explain my troubles.

Like I said, prior to taking the boat to the lake I took both point sets out and polished the contacts to a near mirror finish using a very fine pink whetstone. Ran great in the bucket, but no spark once I got to the lake. I have told people in person what I did to the points and got the rolled eyes response assuring me that all they ever do is file them and they last for years and years.

Regardless, I have ordered a new set of points and condensors from iBoats.

I've been down this road so many times with my POS Chrysler motor. It failed 80% of the time I used it over the last 4 years. I'd get it working in the bucket but it would fail on the lake. I guess it just feels like I'm headed down that road again. They are both magneto ignition.
 

bktheking

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Re: Are magneto ignitions really this tricky?

Theres actually a points file designed for doing the job, sandpaper can leave grit behind on the points and makek matter worse.
 

lindy46

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Re: Are magneto ignitions really this tricky?

You don't say anything about the coils. May be a coil not firing once motor heats up.
 

FHB

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Aug 22, 2010
Messages
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Re: Are magneto ignitions really this tricky?

I am not much of a small engine mechanic, and I found my motor as an ancient old junker, so I just changed everything under the flywheel. I think the spark plug wires dated from the Eisenhower administration.
 

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i386

Captain
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Aug 24, 2004
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3,548
Re: Are magneto ignitions really this tricky?

You don't say anything about the coils. May be a coil not firing once motor heats up.

Could be I guess. The coils look pretty new on the outside. They are green. They both tested ok on my multimeter.

New points and condensers should be here on Wednesday or Thursday. We'll see what does and go from there.
 

Tim Frank

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Re: Are magneto ignitions really this tricky?

I would be surprised if the points needed to be filed at all....but you can tell by visual inspection....usually. Dirt or a small bit of moisture...condensation can cause a film that disrupts their operation.

If there is any significant resurfacing needed use a points file (purpose built) and clean them afterward with alcohol or toluene or equivalent.
The second time in a short window?... I would be looking for a different cause.

As suggested, these systems are pretty foolproof and reliable.

I would bet that a condenser is shot and would change just the suspect condenser first, to see if you can pinpoint that as the exact problem.


Occasionally there is a secondary issue of a mechanical nature that you have to trace....wear/slop in linkages etc that is not directly part of the mag system per se.
If the points and condenser replacement does not work, you may have something like that going on.
 
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