"Authorized Dealers?" - Think Twice

[CaptainPuget]

Re: "Authorized Dealers?" - Think Twice

Interesting thread. I wish that I read it 6 months ago.

 

[HeadHunt]

Re: "Authorized Dealers?" - Think Twice

Very good discussion. This is the situation I ran into when I brought up the topic of identifying good mechanics. I had taken my trusty Merc. 40 (1992) to a mechanic who has worked on Mercs. for about 20 years but is now a Honda dealer. He claims he makes his money fixing Mercs and Evinrudes because the Hondas never come back in for repair. (Probably a whole different discussion). Anyway, he told me my Merc. was not worth fixing, needed a rebuild, probably costing $1500. After a quick trip to Clams Canino, I have this boat back in service, at a fraction of the cost. If you need work on an older Merc., especially an inline, Clams is very, very good. Anyway, I would have rather the guy told me to find another mechanic to see if it can be fixed rather than not giving me any hope whatsoever. DHPMarine, you are the one who first told me to get another opinion, and thats when I found Clams.<br /><br />I guess my point is, I wish there was a way for marine mechanics to be rated in a given area. I have personally had this Merc. with three other mechanics over the 10 years I have owned it. If I keep this motor, I will always drive the 1.5 hours to leave it with Clams. Wouldn't you guys do the same if you knew someone you could trust that wouldn't rip you off?<br /><br />Thanks To All,<br />HeadHunt

 

[DHPMARINE]

Re: "Authorized Dealers?" - Think Twice

HeadHunt,<br /><br />Thru the years I have seen many customers come and go,and in some cases 3 to 4 years seems to be an average.I've done this long enough to see customers leave,return,and leave again,and come back.I do think Clams will serve you very well,for a long time.<br />But I have met with customers after not working on their boats for a couple years,and find little things made them go elsewhere.<br />Things like feeling we were too curt with them,and didn't spend enough time with them.Overcharged them,or they thought the bill was going to be less.Felt we spent more time with another customer who may have spent more with us.Or less.I remember one customer who thought we double charged him for a twenty dollar tarp.<br />Sad part is,the whole problem is communication.If we don't understand each other,I'll upset you in some way.We have to talk until we speak the same language.My mechanical savy has to blend in with your bookeeping knowledge,or your understanding of physics and my lack thereof.And I have to understand when you say the motor won't turn over, that it spins fine ,but won't catch.<br />The one thing I have seen,is when you leave me,and go up the street,you'll be back when he makes the same mistake of not being able to communicate with you.<br /><br />DHP<br /><br />and,yes when I think another shop can serve you better,I'll suggest it.

 

[NMplayer]

Re: "Authorized Dealers?" - Think Twice

Internetoutboards, you still don't get it. I don't want you working on my old motors because I am attached to them. I want you to work on them because it is cheaper for me to have you do a carb job and a water pump on an old "clunker" than it is to buy a good replacement. Hell, it may be cheaper to rebuild the whole power head on a big motor. <br /><br />Rodbolt is in the salt and I can see how that changes things, but thousands of these old motors across the country have never seen salt.

 

[CaptainPuget]

Re: "Authorized Dealers?" - Think Twice

No, he doesn’t get it at all. That’s the type of attitude that we owners of older outboards want to avoid. I wish they would all put up a sign “Warranty or Insurance Work Only” that way we won’t waste our time or theirs.

 

[CaptainPuget]

Re: "Authorized Dealers?" - Think Twice

No, he doesn’t get it at all. That’s the type of attitude that we owners of older outboards want to avoid. I wish they would all put up a sign “Warranty or Insurance Work Only” that way we won’t waste our time or theirs.

 

[HeadHunt]

Re: "Authorized Dealers?" - Think Twice

I guess some dealers just do not want to work on the older engines. That is their decision to make. They at least should make the customers aware of that and could even recommend a local independent mechanic. If the guy who told me to trash my 1992 Merc. had taken that approach, I would at least have respect for him and may even give him more business in the future.

 

[mellowyellow]

Re: "Authorized Dealers?" - Think Twice

don't newer motors still need carb jobs and<br />water pumps too? aren't there still 2 strokes<br />with carbs that are under warranty?<br /><br />I'm lucky, there's tons and tons of lightly used,<br />fresh water only, 30yo outboards in MY neck of<br />the woods.<br /><br />I wonder how many I6 mercs I could buy before it<br />added up to the cost of a new motor?

 

[Scali]

Re: "Authorized Dealers?" - Think Twice

I think with the older ones getting salted on bolts , water pumps & even worse steering arms off can be a *****, add a couple hours to simple jobs.<br />Freshwater motors & or low hour flushed older motors shouldnt make a difference to these shops, maybe that point should be pointed out when inquiring service from a shop. <br />Another point I think it may have been made but lets take Headhunts 40 HP Merc { I have this same model }, a new onw is around 4 grand, so if it indeed needed a rebuild & was a good candidate rust free, good LU ect. then $ 1500 is a steal.<br />Many of these OB's were kept indoors, maybe 10 years old but like new. <br />Ever try to get a 10 year old car painted, I did recently ? <br />It's really really hard to find a collision shop that doesnt just do insurance repairs & or warranty. I ended up doing the body work myself & went to Maaco { came out great BTW }.<br />Same sort of thing

 

[CaptainPuget]

Re: "Authorized Dealers?" - Think Twice

“I wonder how many I6 mercs I could buy before it added up to the cost of a new motor?”<br /><br />I looked into that not long ago. A 2005 Merc 115 “classic” is $7069 base, add $1500 for controls and cables, 2.5 hours @ $90 per for installation, 9% tax = $9585.46. I can buy about 9 in-line sixes in working order, with controls for that around here.

 

[mellowyellow]

Re: "Authorized Dealers?" - Think Twice

I was thinking about 10-15 around here. add we<br />have a real short season and it's freshwater only<br />and it's a no-brainer for me...<br /><br />u gotta pay for regular maint. on any outboard.<br />maybe I'm wrong, but I don't think carb jobs and<br />consumables like impellers are covered under<br />warranty even on new motors.<br /><br />BTW, I sold my last I6 for more than I paid for<br />the whole boat/motor. she was a cherry '70 115<br />that was so clean u could eat off the block.

 

[phatmanmike]

Re: "Authorized Dealers?" - Think Twice

BTW, I sold my last I6 for more than I paid for<br />the whole boat/motor. she was a cherry '70 115<br />that was so clean u could eat off the block

i bought a 1960 glasspar ,on its origonal trailer, with a 1976 merc 1150 inline 6 hanging on the back for 800. it was sitting for 18 years, inside, in florida, when i got it.<br /><br />yes, it had salt IN the block. yes, it ACTUALLY ran the day i brought it home, with zero adjustments, i turned the key ( with a newer battey i put in ) and it started right up! seriously.<br /><br />i sold the motor for 1100 4 months later and traded the boat minus motor for a 1970 VW squareback wich i traded for a 1989 honda civic wich i drive daily.<br /><br />my point is this...ok...i have no point...<br /><br />seriously though...think about it from both sides:<br />A- if you are a dealer, and joe somebody brings in his 20 year old motor,and needs a waterpump, carbs rebuilt and lets say the switchbox is shot. this is EASILY over a thousand dollars, very easily. he hands you a bill for $1500 parts and labor. you tell him to go screw him self and you dont pay, and you get a nother motor elswhere. now he is stuck with this motor, that he just sunk 1400 into and couldnt sell for half that on the open market. thats why some of the shops wont touch them<br /><br />B- ok, there is no "B"<br /><br />but why would dealer man work hours or days on your old, dirty, frozen bolts, rusted parts, non running motor and maybe get paid, maybe not, when he could spend his time workiong on the warranty stuff that he knows he will get paid on.<br />most of the older motors are owned by people who dont have a lot of extra cash laying around for a new 10,000 dollar motor;hence they dont have money to throw 1500 dollars to fix the one they have. if they DID have all kinds of money laying around, they PROBABLY wouldnt be using a 20 year old motor.<br /><br />i have more than a few motors. all 2 strokes. all carbed. only 1 is oil injected. they range from 1970 up to 1989 and are from all diferent makes and sizes. i do all work myself. seriously, i bought my first outboard in oct.2003. i joined iboats one month later.<br /><br />really now, if you have an older outboard, with carbs and is 2stroke , there really isnt ANYTHING AT ALL that a semi handy person couldnt repair themselves with the help of this board and a manual.<br /><br />ive owned probably close to 30 motors in the last year and a half, and all of them have been repaired by me, with one exception. my first outboard blew up the day i got back from the shop. the next day i joined iboats and have never looked back since.<br /><br />i have rebuilt blocks and crankcases, swapped cranks and rods, resealed lower units, rebuilt cars, etc etc etc.<br /><br />the best way to tell those dealers that refuse to work on your old motor to go SCREW THEM SELVES, is to fix it yourself!<br /><br />i know you can!<br />we know you can<br />www.iboats.com<br /><br />what else do you need?

 

[mellowyellow]

Re: "Authorized Dealers?" - Think Twice

hey mike, u made me think of an important point<br />in this discussion... the "real" condition of the<br />motor!<br />maybe some folks don't see the obvious or don't<br />care to actually look. like a used car, you can<br />tell real quick just by looking if it's been babied<br />or abused. second u look at the seller and their<br />motivation.<br /><br />ain't brain surgery..

 

[TOHATSU GURU]

Re: "Authorized Dealers?" - Think Twice

I think some of you miss the point as well. What I was trying to get across to you, tactfully, was that it is almost NEVER cost effective to repair an old saltwater junker. That's why I prefaced my statements as a " coastal authorized dealer" Coastal meaning S A L T W A T E R. But besides that, it's not just that repair today that you need. It's the potential for a failure of other parts of the engine that scares me. Going back to the carb/wp failure idea. Lets say that you have a 11 year old freshwater 50 hp whatever. The engine is worth $300-$500 in theory. A waterpump and carb job on that engine might be $250.00. If it was my engine I would want to repair it. But, as a dealer I would want to shy away from it based on my fear of repairing that and then finding more wrong. But, because it's a freshy we would go ahead and repair it for you. Lets say we start it up and test run it and hear bearing noise. It's going to be $700-$1800 to repair it. How can I, an honest dealer, recommend that you fix it when you can find good clean used engines, like you want yours to be, for $500-$1000. No reputable repair shop wants you to spend more to repair an item than it's worth. My advice and I would suspect others, is not based on repair or buying new. It's based on replacement value. If your used engine, worth $1000.00 when it was running, can be replaced with another used engine that you can buy for a $1000.00, why would you want to spend $1500.00 to repair it?<br /><br />If you go back and re-read my original post I was concerned with authorized dealers. I made a point about how a clunker engine could be repaired at a non-franchised repair center cost effectivly. There are exceptions to this, but they are few and far between.

 

[rodbolt]

Re: "Authorized Dealers?" - Think Twice

one of the last court cases I was invoilved in is like that. the motor was totally rebuilt 1988 yamaha 150. done in the norfolk area by a reputable dealer. however 4 months after the rebuild the cooling wate passage corroded a hole into the crank case.was that a reman issue? was it just the customers bad lucK?<br /> the judge ruled on the bad luck. that is why on older saltwater motors I hesitate to work with them.<br /> I have a 1989 yamaha 225 powerhead here that purrs like a kitten. however the passage under the powerhead has coirroded a hole in it and leaks water in the top mount area. needs a block to repair it. the customer bought a new motor.<br /> but he still had to pay me the time I spent cutting the power head adapter to get it apart.<br /> so its not a nerve issue. its a simple matter of I would rather tell a customer that I cannot repair his rig to my satisfaction for a reasonable cost. I would rather they be mad at that then back in 3 months with another problem expecting a life time warrenty.

 

[TOHATSU GURU]

Re: "Authorized Dealers?" - Think Twice

Exactly my point. Dealers and indepenent techs can not afford the bad public relations on unexpected problems on older engines. Heck, it's hard enough to deal with engines that are in warranty when it's not a warranty issue.

 

[mellowyellow]

Re: "Authorized Dealers?" - Think Twice

why rebuild a salty when u can get a used one<br />up north in freshwater country to rebuild?

 

[HeadHunt]

Re: "Authorized Dealers?" - Think Twice

All I was saying is, I ending up spending less than $300 for an independent mechanic to repair my engine when an authorized dealer said it needed a $1500 rebuild. Lets be realistic, did the "authorized dealer" really have my best interest in mind?

 

[NMplayer]

Re: "Authorized Dealers?" - Think Twice

I see your point, I guess, but it still leaves a niche that isn't filled. Say I have a $1000 engine that needs 2K worth of work. You won't work on it because of the value of my engine. You say I can buy another $1000 engine that will run. (Its only a replacement if it runs) Are you gonna help me pick it out? I could buy one that would need more repairs than the one I have. <br /><br />In fact, I could buy a $1k + $2k =$3k engine that still needs more repairs than my original.

 

[HeadHunt]

Re: "Authorized Dealers?" - Think Twice

Good point NMplayer. I went through the same thing. I looked all over for a good used engine before I found Clams. By the time I could have purchased one and had it installed I was close to $2000. And I still did not really know the history of the engine like I did my own. If you have an older engine, you definately need a good independent mechanic to work on it. I also have a fairly new Honda. Thinking about asking Clams to go to Honda school, just in case!!(Yea, he'll like that)<br /><br />HeadHunt